Chesapeake Bay Blue Catfish, Eat Them Up

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation. I have two gentlemen here and the one has been on before. And a good friend of mine, Matthew Scales, and we are also joined by Joe Love. And we're going to be talking about something very, very, very, very good here, Marilyn. Well, Liz, I've been told it is I haven't eaten any yet. Blue catfish. Right. Is that the actual name of it? Is it blue catfish? 

Joe Love 0:28
That's correct. 

Rich Bennett 0:30
Oh, that I said was obvious right off the bat. What's the difference between Blue Cat and Channel Cat? Because Channel cats. The other big one, right? 

Joe Love 0:39
Yeah. Channel cats. A huge commercial fishery as well. Certainly not as many come in in the commercial markets as blue catfish right now. But it's it's channel Cats have been with Maryland for much longer time than blue cats. And generally speaking, when people catch a 40 catfish, it's a channel cat. They tend to smaller sizes tend to have little dots along their bodies. They tend to be grayish. And as adult, they're not nearly as big as blue catfish. So our blue catfish can get over £100, Right. Channel cats certainly don't get that big. So there are some significant differences. One being channel cats have been around for a lot longer and two being they just don't get as big and plentiful as the blue catfish are. And in Maryland, anyway. 

Rich Bennett 1:33
Wait a minute. A blue cat can get up to how many pounds? 

Joe Love 1:39
Over £100. They covered in Virginia. So, you know, our state record right now, I think is at about 84, but it's still a pretty big dog in the water. And so we we are we are we are concerned, right, that some of these fish are getting really large. And as they get older, they tend to eat more fish. And so the state is fairly concerned about the impacts on our resources, particularly other fishes and blue crabs, because blue catfish are predators. 

Rich Bennett 2:18
And no idea those these get that big. 

Joe Love 2:22
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 2:23
I take it with these things are not strictly in the Bay Area. 

Joe Love 2:29
What's that. 

Matthew Scales 2:32
I said that it gets big as like a child, right. I mean £100. Right. That's, you know, it's almost bigger than my, my 14 year old. So these things are huge. We had, we had our secretaries out there, not too long ago. And yeah, some of the ones they were pulling out were just they were 25, 30 pounder. So on the on the smaller side for comparison, no £100. But yeah, these things are huge and this is a problem that we have to eat our way out of because this fish has no natural predator in the Chesapeake Bay. So we're the predator and we're the ones that really have to consume this. To answer your question, they are in the Chesapeake Bay and its tributaries, so, oh, you know, first introduced in the 1970s. And Joe can probably talk a little bit about the history of of, you know, how they were brought over and kind of the overpopulation that they had on the day. 

Rich Bennett 3:33
Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Hold up, Back up. So you said in the tributaries that means like in the in the rivers and everything. 

Joe Love 3:42
Yes, sir, they're in the rivers. And, you know, we luckily don't have them in some of impoundments like Deep Creek Lake. You're not going to find Blue Catfish or Canowindra Reservoir. You're not going to find hope for catfish. Hopefully right now they tend to be really abundant in our tidal rivers, tidal freshwater rivers and in the main stem of the Chesapeake Bay. So if you go north of the Bay Bridge fishing, the mainstay there, you catch them all the way up to the Conaway and go dam straight to the Elk River. So they they're they're getting more abundant up that way. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So they're they're pretty widespread right now. 

Rich Bennett 4:33
Okay. And they were you said they were brought here in the seventies. 

Joe Love 4:38
Yeah. Yes. Is is Matthew mentioned they were introduced into the Chesapeake Bay, into the Virginia side by the state agency as a way of creating a trophy fishery. So as you know, people like catching big fish and. Yep. Yeah. And blue catfish, as we already said get to be big fish. So they took the country's biggest catfish and put it into the Chesapeake Bay. So blue catfish, just like channel catfish, they're part of North America, right? So they live in the Mississippi River, Ohio River, Arkansas River. But they were not blue catfish were not part of the Chesapeake Bay. So there was an interest to create that trophy fishery, give people an opportunity to catch that big fish. And so they introduced them in the 1970s into the Virginia side, into those rivers, James River, Rappahannock York. So that's where they stayed, I think intention from what I've from what I understand, the idea was that the fish would not leave those rivers. That. Pass the salt barrier because it's a freshwater fish. 

Rich Bennett 5:55
Okay. 

Joe Love 5:56
And they would not leave. As I say, that was not uncommon. There are other state agencies in the country that also introduced blue cats and in other species to try right or sportfishing for people. So it's not an uncommon thought. I think now fast forward, we know better and I don't think we'd make that same mistake again. But back in the seventies, we did. We did have them introduced. Yep. And then and since then they've spread obviously through the Chesapeake Bay. So they added the additional thought that they wouldn't I was wrong and in fact, they did move from the from the Virginia side into the Maryland side. 

Rich Bennett 6:40
And now they're invasive. 

Joe Love 6:43
Yeah, they are. So we you know, it's definitely true that they're, you know, a big fish that people like to catch. And for all of those reasons that make it a good sport, fish it is also become an invasive fish. So it's a big predator in the water and they get to become very abundant. And because of those things, we consider them an invasive fish and we are concerned about those impacts to our ecosystem. We know blue catfish, eat perch, we know that they eat blue crab. We know there have been striped bass found within bleep. 

Rich Bennett 7:25
Wow. 

Joe Love 7:26
Yeah, they're a pretty general predator. They'll eat a lot of different things, particularly as they get older. They tend to eat more fish. So our goal has been, as Matthew put it earlier, to try and eat our way out of this problem because. 

Rich Bennett 7:42
We've had. 

Joe Love 7:43
Tasty, right? So we can get people to eat them, we can pull them out of the water and perhaps lower their impact to the resources that the agencies are trying to protect. 

Rich Bennett 7:56
So are these things actually more invasive than the snakehead fish were or are are? 

Joe Love 8:03
Oh, I often tell people that I don't play favorites when it comes. To. 

They they all have different impacts, right where we're concerned across the board. Right. We manage them. We may manage them in different ways, but we we are generally concerned across the board. Snakeheads, just like blue cats. They tend to be top predators right? The blue cats certainly get bigger than snakeheads. They live in slightly different areas and northern snakehead. So they would impact resources differently because they live in generally different areas. We still regard snakeheads as invasive. Certainly there are some issues with snakeheads that we don't have with blue cats for one, being snakeheads are very difficult to kill or they are survivors. And so that makes them very easy to transport and introduce into other areas. So that's an issue for us. Northern snakehead are not from North America at all, so we've kind of compromise size the diversity of this country by introducing this new animal from an exotic area. So that's that's a challenge. But we are but still we're concerned with invasive fish in general. 

Rich Bennett 9:25
Yeah. 

Joe Love 9:27
We ask people to if they they catch a snakehead, try it to eat it. And that's kind of the same mentality that we use the blue cats right now, though, as Mathew points out, it's more of a challenge with blue cats because there are a lot more blue cats out there than there are snakeheads. And so, you know, our mouths are only so big. I refrigerators are only so wide and so it's harder to get people to take home these blue cats, particularly when they're catching so many of them. 

Rich Bennett 9:56
Yeah, but you don't want them thrown back, do you? 

Joe Love 10:00
We don't buy matter of practice. We encourage beneficial use, whether it's fertilizer or food. 

But I think there are some practical issues we have to deal with. I mean, we are relying on some part on on Marylanders and Virginians and people to come here and fish for them. But there's a practical aspect that, again, you know, they're only going to take home so many fish. So, you know, we work with commercial industry to try and export these fish or put them is, as Matthew point out to some of our state agencies, state state industry like the prison system where we can get these folks to eat this protein salt more regularly, and that if we can begin exporting to other parts of this country, perhaps other countries like China, then it's a possibility that we don't necessarily have to rely on local residents to solve this problem. We can kind of, you know, share that load across agencies, across different people and perhaps different states and countries. 

Rich Bennett 11:08
Something that you just mentioned, which I had no idea you could do. You said fertilizer use a blue cat is fertilizer. 

Joe Love 11:17
That. 

Rich Bennett 11:19
Yes, it really. 

Joe Love 11:21
Yeah. Yup. There are you know you can look if I recall my American history correctly, back in back when we founded Jamestown, they used fish as fertilizer in some of those areas. Right. It's not uncommon to do these kinds of things. And so there's actually a plant in the Midwest that takes over car, which are invasive to the Great Lakes region, converts it into an organic fertilizer. And I believe there's a there's an outfit on the Eastern shore of Maryland that that also does the same with some blue catfish, as a matter of fact. Right. So that's certainly a possibility. Some folks could just toss them in their fields if they want. But I think I think that could also attract vultures. So so know the wild. 

Rich Bennett 12:11
Animals. 

Joe Love 12:11
Or other wild. Animals. There are some drawbacks, right? Tossing of manure in your field. So we do have companies that that can take that protein source and convert it to an organic fertilizer. Yes, sir. 

Rich Bennett 12:26
I never heard of that. That's pretty wild. 

Joe Love 12:28
Mm. It's a way of pulling nitrogen. So, you know, blue catfish eat a lot. Right. That's going to take up a lot of that nitrogenous waste, that nitrogen, nitrogen carbon that's in the bay, and they can convert it to muscle tissue that we can kind of take that muscle tissue and convert it right back to nitrogen as fertilizer. So basically it's helping to clean the bay at the same time we're feeding our fields and so that it's kind of a win win right? It's just a matter of getting more companies on board with processing blue cats as as organic fertilizer. 

Rich Bennett 13:04
So now do we know if the blue cats are actually high in mercury like some other fish? 

Joe Love 13:12
So we have testing. I actually just brought some samples over to Maryland Department of Environment yesterday or day before yesterday. But they do have some consumption advisories out there that are based on mercury and PCBs, and they will be releasing some new consumption advisories this coming month in December based on a chemical called p FAS. And in general, with with respect to mercury, it's not so much of an issue, but there are some concerns with PCBs. 

And honestly, it depends where the catfish comes from because we have some water bodies that are more polluted than others. Industrial waste. Right. The Anacostia, for example, or the or Piscataway on the Potomac tend to be a little bit more compromised in terms of industrial waste. And so there maybe there are some areas where, you know, that that's a concern with some fish. And that's why Maryland Department of Environment and US work together to try and do that testing and get that information into the hands of the general public. And all of it is shared online. So they have that information. But in general, people shouldn't be afraid to eat these fish. 

Rich Bennett 14:24
Right. 

Joe Love 14:25
We we have in some cases consumption advisories because the water that they come from. But those consumption advisories allow people to eat a certain number of fish per month. And I'd encourage people just to kind of review those consumption advisories for more information on what they should eat and where they should eat it. But, yeah, they're they're tested and they're generally a safe product to consume. 

Rich Bennett 14:57
I think the state needs to have a blue cat first of all. 

So as you think about I mean, we had the seafood festivals, we have oyster festivals, we have a Blue Cat festival and you could even have like a I don't know, a fishing contest or on average you're going to get a lot of people grabbing them. Blue Cat. 

Joe Love 15:20
Yeah, that's true. There aren't fish to go after. You know, we do support tournaments every once in a while. There is a bay wide tournament that's supported by CSK and they ask their anglers to catch Blue Cat and Snakeheads and report their locations of where they catch them. We use that information, but they also compete for prizes with the big fish caught. So there is there there is some of that that happens. I don't know about a blue catfish festival. We don't in my knowledge have that. But yeah, you never know. But you know, Matthew and I have been talking about kind of partnering with the state fair. The state fair to try and promote blue catfish. I won't call that festival y. Well, well, have a little footprint here. A little footprint with blue catfish there. 

Rich Bennett 16:17
Blue cat on a stick. 

Joe Love 16:19
Yeah. Luke Evans on a stick. That's why I don't know that he's going to work out the menu. That's how I can get him the fish. I'm not going to cook it, though. I don't feel good about that. But I will. You know, I love all ideas. And Blue Cat Festival is not a bad one. So we can definitely talk about that. Yeah. The road. Yep. 

Rich Bennett 16:44
Actually, does the Steve have a cookbook where people that people can buy that list all the different recipes to cook like say blue cat snakehead and so forth. 

That's a big that is a no no. 

Joe Love 17:03
I think. It is. Yeah. That's why I take that what he's working on White Oak. 

Matthew Scales 17:07
Yeah. Yeah. So actually cooking that up, no pun intended. Really. Both for HSP, maybe an invasive or overpopulation inspired cookbook where you're looking at the blue calf. The wild caught just the catfish or looking at the snakehead and a lot of different dishes. I mean, right now if you go to Maryland's best on that, that's our website. We have a link on there where you can see a list of recipes. And of those recipes, there's tons out there for just blue catfish. I just made blue catfish dip for Thanksgiving. And I got to tell you, Rich, it was it was a crowd pleaser. 

Rich Bennett 17:54
Blue catfish dip for New York. 

Matthew Scales 17:59
Yeah. So think about that recipe. Think about what you substitute instead of crab. You have blue catfish. 

Rich Bennett 18:10
All right, so where did you get the blue cat? Did you catch it yourself or can you actually buying it in, like supermarkets or seafood stops? 

Matthew Scales 18:21
Well, I'm not much of a fisherman. I say I pretty good billionaire, too, but for certainly I'm not out there casting the rod. However, I will say that I, I went to Giant and Giant carries wild caught Chesapeake blue catfish and a lot whole foods Wegmans. There's a ton of different grocery stores that sell Chesapeake blue catfish. Oh yeah. And really, if you go on Maryland's best stock net, we have a list of grocery stores, even seafood markets. You know, if you look Google, you know, seafood market near me, there are some that are starting to sell it, some that, you know, because of the awareness factor, you know, people you know, some stores are not selling it. So it's again, I think a maryland rockfish or striped bass is the preferred fish. Right. But I think when people think of a blue catfish, they think of the typical catfish that people in the South to see. Right. This is, again, a different type of catfish. So and it it to me it tastes like mahi mahi if you're just having the fillet it's like a nice white. 

Rich Bennett 19:37
Really. 

Matthew Scales 19:38
Flavor fish. It's not you know your typical what you think of of a catfish. So I encourage folks, the people to try it, go out there, go to your local seafood markets or your grocery stores and just try it. Try making up a filet or a blue color. Yeah, blue catfish dip. 

Rich Bennett 19:57
That, you know, if there is any restaurants that are serving it. 

Matthew Scales 20:00
There are and I've just so Chesapeake Chef services we work with our catering company in Eastern Shore preserve is a restaurant in Annapolis to trust the oyster company in Baltimore. They serve. So we have a list of those. And someone told me in my office, Pinky's, I think down in Calvert County is serving that now too. So and I'm trying to get some more restaurants, of course, and all across Maryland to put this on the menu, because again, we've got to eat our way out of this problem. 

Rich Bennett 20:35
I guarantee you put that on the menu, it's going to pull more customers in. 

Matthew Scales 20:41
And I'll tell you, too, Rich, it's we talked about earlier where comparing other fish, if it's if you look at the fish now per pound, it's half the price of what you would pay for your other types of fish, your mahi mahi, your striped bass. So it's a great value. It's a healthy fish. So it's a great protein, low cholesterol. And it's as we talked about, I mean, these fish are huge, so it's a plenty of fish. So, you know, as folks are starting to gather for the holidays, you know, and having Santa come by 

me, 

you know, have this type of fish for that dinner table for this family. Yeah. Because it's going to feed everyone. Everyone's going to be a little bit healthier. And it's and we're doing our part for the sustainability of the Chesapeake Bay. 

Rich Bennett 21:36
Man, I am hooked now, I didn't realize you could buy that like Wegmans and Giant at all. 

Joe Love 21:41
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 21:43
So now I'm going to have to go there and get some. 

Joe Love 21:45
Yeah. And I tell you, if if, if, if you want to, if you want to, you know, take a ride and rail out there to go fishing and avoid, you know, spending a little money all you need is a fishing license and a good spot and you can catch yourself as many blue catfish as you want. We don't have it's open season. There's no size limit, no creel limit. You can keep as many as you want and you can share them under the Christmas tree with your family. That could be great presents. If you like tying bows on their heads. You can do that. You know, lay one out, one out on your on your table. You know, you can four for Christmas dinners. Matthew, you said, you know, there's there's a plentiful resource right now in the Chesapeake Bay and blue catfish. And it's not a problem for folks to go out there and find them. So I'd encourage you, you know, if you if you are having trouble finding a giant or maybe you're a little strapped because of the Christmas season, just get yourself a rod and reel and go out, Find yourself a dock somewhere, tie something on to the heart, maybe a little minnow, maybe a worm, and try your best to get in a catfish, because these are these are not the cat. These are not the bottom drawer, bottom feeders that folks somehow think that they are. 

Rich Bennett 23:14
I was wondering about that. 

Joe Love 23:15
They are not these are not those These are a high quality protein fish. And, you know, it's fun to catch. Yeah, it's fun to catch, but it's also something you can bring home and share with others. 

Rich Bennett 23:32
Right. 

Joe Love 23:33
You know, over the dinner. 

Matthew Scales 23:34
It's something that maybe Sandtown rats. If you could tell Santa that he should bring some people some fishing rods and a fishing net. Make a fishing net though, because these things get where you go. So that's. 

Joe Love 23:48
There you go. 

Rich Bennett 23:49
Let's you act like I know that guy. 

Joe Love 23:53
Or so 

you might. 

Rich Bennett 23:58
You know you Joe, I'm glad you mentioned that though about that, because I know a lot of people will not like to eat. A lot of people don't like to eat catfish because of your regular cat channel, cat and all that are bottom feeders. 

Joe Love 24:11
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 24:12
But I'm glad you mentioned that the blue cat is not. 

Joe Love 24:15
Yeah, this is a different species. It's a different animal. And, you know, there are always these misconceptions. Look, I tell you, I mentioned that I come from Louisiana and I never turned down catfish. Catfish. I just usually. 

Rich Bennett 24:28
One of my favorite fish. 

Joe Love 24:29
One of my favorite fish, you know, you fry. And it never dawned on me that it was a, quote unquote, bottom dweller, bottom feeder and that it was beneath me for eating. It is not. And blue catfish is a different animal than the channel cats, than the bullhead catfish that we that our anglers are used to catching out there. Blue catfish are different. And this Chesapeake blue catfish is really a delicious animal to eat. So if folks catch one and fillet it super easy, relatively easy to fillet and relatively easy to cook, there are a lot of recipes out there. You know, it's not an it's not a unicorn fish, catfish. It's been around for a long time. People know what to do with them. So we encourage people to eat. 

Matthew Scales 25:17
And one thing we do, Rich, at Maryland's Bass Department of AG, we'll go around to certain events and do demos and samplings of the blue catfish. So in October, right, that was like my second day on the job. I was right there on Five Star of the Big Horse racing festival in Cecil County, and we were out there demoing and sampling blue catfish and giving it was like a blue catfish gumbo soup. It was great on a rainy, you know, today's friends that it would be a perfect meal on a cold day or on a Sunday. Get in front of the game and eat in this, giving it out to people and telling you that this is tough people, catfish, they're like, No, really, what is it? It's Chesapeake blue catfish. Like, Now, come on, this is a catfish. 

Joe Love 26:05
Compared. 

Matthew Scales 26:06
To Joe. And our point, it doesn't have the same texture. It's a different species, has a different flavor. And we really want to encourage people to get out there and try it, because not only are you helping gain the ability of the bay, you're also supporting an industry as been in thousands of jobs and the watermen and water women that are out there on the bay, you're supporting them and putting food on their table for their families. 

Rich Bennett 26:34
You know what? You just gave me an idea because. Well, Joe doesn't know. Does Matthew knows this. So, yeah, once a month we do that beer, bourbon barbecue thing. Well, those guys always love to have competitions. And we just had a chili cook off. We've done ribs. I think that's a good competition for us to do. Is like a blue cat cooking challenge. 

Joe Love 26:57
A Chesapeake Blue cat competition. Yeah. Yeah. And you could do that. 

Matthew Scales 27:02
You have tons of recipes on our website. So, you know, each one of the guys can look there, you know, maybe you do the fish depth, maybe someone else does the gumbo and someone does a fillet, and yet you guys try different recipes or you make the same thing and see who does a better. 

Joe Love 27:19
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 27:20
And we have I know I'm going to be smokin my. 

Joe Love 27:24
And. We have a lot of information online on how to catch a fish, how to catch blue catfish and where to find them. And Matthew has a lot of information online about where to go and buy them and what to do with them when you catch them if you want to eat them. So, you know, I feel like between the both of us, we we could get people out there fishing or eating fish a little bit more frequently. It would really help out the Chesapeake Bay and help out the resources that we're trying to protect now and the water. 

Rich Bennett 27:57
So when it comes to when you catch them, I don't know if you guys can answer this or not. Do you have to clean them the same way you do? Like the you know, the like the channel cats and the bull cat and all that. 

Joe Love 28:10
It's Yeah. So in terms of that, yeah, I mean it's still a, it's still a catfish. Of course blue cats tend to be bigger so it's a little bit easier to, to work through. 

Rich Bennett 28:21
Just need a bigger board. 

Joe Love 28:23
You just you just need a bigger board. Maybe a bigger knife. Yeah. I've got a I've got a colleague who uses an electric knife and he goes down pretty quickly, particularly the bigger ones with that electric knife. So that that might be a tool to invest in if you're going out there for those fish. We do recommend, just like with striped bass, some some recommendations from Maryland Department Environment, and those are to remove the red mussel for particularly the bigger fish, because that red mussel which is along the center part of the fillet. Yeah. And to accumulate more of those PCBs and those toxins you were talking. 

Rich Bennett 29:04
Oh. 

Joe Love 29:05
So if you want an even healthier fillet, the way to go about it is to pull that fillet off and then just remove that that red mussel, which personally I find doesn't taste that great. Anyway you really want, right? White fluffy meat may. But that's that tends to be our recommendation. So that might be one difference between these and Bullhead, because as those fish get bigger, they develop more of that red muscle. Right? So we would recommend people just go ahead and pull that off before they eat the fillet. 

Rich Bennett 29:36
And both of you have eaten the blue cat, right? Yes. Does it does it taste good? Go ahead. 

Matthew Scales 29:42
I say when I first started and again, I'm about a month into my job. Yeah, I didn't really hear about the blue Cat, too much. And so and again, I was in the mindset of a lot of Marylanders, I think of like, oh, catfish, but again, different species. So when I started, I was like, I probably should try this thing. I'm also talking about right now, of course, I went to my local giant, went to the seafood department, and sure enough they had a wildcard to speak to Catfish there, brought it up, brought it home, put it in some butter, lemon juice, filtered it, and it was delicious. 

Rich Bennett 30:20
I was great when you cooked it or your wife cooked it. 

Matthew Scales 30:24
Cambridge. Don't you know I'm a chef. 

Joe Love 30:30
And I'm this. 

Rich Bennett 30:33
I just wanted to verify. 

Matthew Scales 30:36
Since I was like. 

Joe Love 30:40
I. Love cooking. I think it's a. 

Rich Bennett 30:42
Lot of fun to do. I. 

Joe Love 30:44
I cook it a lot, man. I've cooked it a lot of different ways. Like I say, I usually fry everything because it's just easier. So I bread it all up. And so I got some Uncle Bucks from Bass Pro and I brought it. I'll throw it at them, the cast iron, and I cook it up. But you know, I've had it a few different ways too, because we have staff here who catch it pretty regularly and they cook it for various things. So I guess I haven't had it a bad way yet. Right. 

Matthew Scales 31:14
And I was just going to say to John Shields, who is a chef at Roots Foods, actually, he came to our Seafood Marketing Commission meeting two weeks ago to do a live demo and sample, and he made these instead of crab balls, blue catfish balls, like almost like how you dip it into, like, a spicy only sauce. Oh, my God. Like chef. Yes. It was amazing. And then I just like I said, I made the blue catfish dip. It's on our website. It's a smoked fish dip. If people are nervous or don't have a smoker about try and smoking it. I actually didn't have time to smoke mine. I, I blacked it like both sides. And then I put it in the puree and the food processor and everything together again. Turned out really good. 

Joe Love 32:04
Mm. Is smoking is a process. I've got just charcoal at the house so I can add charcoals, but it takes a little time to do that. But I do have some buddies who have electric smokers, and so that makes the process easier. But I guess. I guess you're disappointed by. 

Rich Bennett 32:22
What is are. I'm sorry. When it comes to barbecuing, I'm old school. Give me my logs. Yo, give me my lump charcoal. Give me my drink to sit by there for 8 hours and just go. I want to be able to just put it it's something did go away and come back and it's done right? 

Joe Love 32:44
Yeah, I hear. 

Matthew Scales 32:45
That there was an infomercial where it's like, set it and forget it. So that so that's how my electric you said it and you forget it. 

Rich Bennett 32:56
I know there's going to be a lot of people upset at me about that, like Paul Mazursky and some others. They're going to be like, No, Rich must be bad. The triggers a way to get no. So I went up against guys that have used them in competition and we blew them away. 

Joe Love 33:13
Is that right? 

Rich Bennett 33:14
Well, it's yeah, because it's not the 

I look well sometimes there is, you know, there is a big difference when it comes to smoking with pellets and wood there there is a big difference. A lot of people will say there's not. But when it comes to flavor, yeah. 

Matthew Scales 33:33
There is. 

Joe Love 33:34
Yeah, but do you think there's one method that requires more skill? I often think to set it and forget it requires the least amount of. 

Rich Bennett 33:42
Skill it does. 

Joe Love 33:43
That's right. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 33:45
It is. That's true. The yeah, the way I do it with the offset and even the barrels that it's more skill and it takes time to learn that. Yeah, you're going to make mistakes. But I'll be honest with you, I am debating on whether to get one of the electric smokers only because. Only because if I was the bad enough, I could set it and forget it. And that'll be the only time I use it. Well, look. 

Joe Love 34:16
I tell you, you can make a lot of mistakes. If you get some of these Chesapeake blue cats. You could because you can get a lot of them and you can try out a new method of cooking them without worrying about it. But I tell you, if you get a like an expensive cut of meat or maybe some striped bass, you probably don't want to experiment with it too much because you. Mess it up. It's going to be bad stuff and you're going to be regret that. 

Rich Bennett 34:39
That's why you want to know what you're doing first. 

Joe Love 34:41
That's right. 

That's right. That's right. You don't have. You don't have to start out smoking baloney to get to get, you know, experience. You can actually work with a fish. And there are a lot of blue cats out there. So, you know, smoking's your thing and you got some time, too, to work into it. The fish are out there for you. 

Rich Bennett 35:03
Yeah. And I am dying to smoke one of them, especially because they're so big. 

Joe Love 35:09
Yeah, Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 35:10
I mean, if on average, On average, what's the average size? Probably about 40. 

Joe Love 35:16
No, know, it's I would say it's closer to what Matthew is saying. It's probably around anywhere between ten and 20. But you can you it does really depend on where you go. The thing is, is that like like most species of fish, the younger, smaller fish tend to be the most abundant. And as they get older and bigger and fatter, they become less abundant. So you have fewer of those trophy size fish just because they die, right? Yeah. And so you may not always hook into a 40 or £50 fish out there. That's why Virginia wanted that trophy fishery, because it's a trophy for a reason, right? You're just not always going to catch those big fish. But that said, 10 to £20 fish, still a big one out there. And and I don't think you'd have a problem pulling a fly off of it. Yeah, there's a little bit of a head there. So I would also say if you're in creating stock some kind of soup, use that some people, like I said, use use for fertilizer. So there are other ways you can utilize the blue catfish besides just the fillet and consuming it. But if my. 

Matthew Scales 36:32
Neighbor. 

Joe Love 36:33
Yes. Yes, do your neighbor. It's right. Feed the cats, I suppose. 

There. Are other beneficial uses out there besides just, you know, consuming the fillet. But like if you hook into a 40, 50, £60 fish, I mean, sometimes those are a struggle to pull into the boat, right. Mm. That's a, that's fine. It's fun to do. Some people get a little concerned about consuming those fish because they worry about the PCBs, they worry about them. But then I always go back to look, if you're worried about it, like I said, remove that red muscle, right? It becomes less of an issue. 

And, you know, like I said, there are other options for using that blue catfish. So if you take it home and you're still concerned consuming it, there are other things that you can do with it, right? You can share it with friends who are less concerned, such as myself, who is a little less concerned about that right now. Or you could fight. 

Rich Bennett 37:32
To give it to me. I'll pick it up. 

Joe Love 37:34
And give it to your dog. Or maybe a dog with eating. You know. You can Ira. Other options. 

Matthew Scales 37:39
You can also use it as make up as well. 

Joe Love 37:41
So that's why I don't know. Anything about that. 

Matthew Scales 37:47
Yeah, I will share that. You know, I was sorry in a couple of processors recently that process the fish and so as they're laying some of the meats, you know, they put the rest of it in the spin and so between going for pet food and then other part will go towards make up and I believe they said they use it for count for something in there that the bones or something is like grind it up and then use in makeup. So I don't recommend just the average Joe and Jane. I'm sure have I find it. 

Joe Love 38:24
So easy to put it in the. Blender? 

Matthew Scales 38:27
You know, these are just so everyone knows. Yeah. I mean, you know, the other fish is not going away, so it's still we're still using the whole fish for whether it's fertilizer or make up or pets. 

Joe Love 38:39
But 

are you right now. Oh. 

Rich Bennett 38:46
Yeah. With all that, I can't. Oh, my gosh. I love that way too. They start with my wife comes out. I was going to ask that blue. Okay. 

Joe Love 38:55
Your I love it. I love that. 

Rich Bennett 38:58
Why not? I'll get smacked. 

Joe Love 39:01
As long as it doesn't. Smell like a blue cat. You'll be okay. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to live with that. 

Rich Bennett 39:07
Oh, God. Guys, is there anything you like to add? Well, of course, the websites, but anything like that. Before we wrap it up. 

Matthew Scales 39:16
Now, just we appreciate you having us on restaurant. Just, you know, we really want to encourage everyone to get out there, support local and it the Maryland's best way celebrating this holiday season and into the new year get a little bit more seafood and fish into your diet again lower cholesterol great protein great value and go to Maryland's best not not to get some recipes and find out where you can get some blue catfish along with other great seafood. 

Joe Love 39:48
Yeah, absolutely. You know, we have a lot of information on DNR about Maryland. And I think if folks have questions, they can always reach out to us by phone number, email. You know, I'm always happy to field questions. And we you know, we strive to respond to within 24 hours. So if you've got something you want to say, you got a burning itch that you need to have scratched. Feel free to reach out to us at any time. 

Rich Bennett 40:15
And for all of you listening, if you have tried the the Chesapeake Blue catfish, let us know what you thought about it. Put it in the comments and if you have a recipe you want to share, feel free to share that as well. Who knows? Maybe Matthew will have you over his house for so, you know, a nice blue catfish. 

Matthew Scales 40:36
You know, we might just have a invasive species festival in my backyard, you know, so. 

Joe Love 40:42
On, and I'll be. There. 

Rich Bennett 40:44
I'll be there. I'll be there. I will. Even to my smokers up there. And without a doubt I'll throw all seven. Well, I'm down to six one. I'm going to get rid of all through all six 

smokers, eight grills. Yeah. All right. It's a deal. You said I. 

Matthew Scales 41:03
Would encourage you bring up a good point, Rach, real quickly, I would encourage everyone, if they're going out at a restaurant, they see it on the menu and they try it, snap a picture of it, tag us at these best on Instagram and Facebook. That way we know what restaurants are serving it, so we can update our list and keep it as up to date and what stores are selling it as well. And we would love to see what everyone thinks about the wild, gorgeous people. 

Rich Bennett 41:30
Catfish 

Absolutely. Joe. Matthew, thanks again. It's always good seeing you, even with it. Joe did so did Matthew tell you about the the cheesesteak contest? 

Joe Love 41:45
He did. He did not. Oh. 

Rich Bennett 41:48
He's we were competing. He was right next to me and he kept bumping into me and made me lose. So on that note, see you guys.