Diana Fannon’s Mission to Revolutionize Inclusive Education

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. I'm your host, Rich Bennett, and today I'm honored to welcome Diana Fannin, a dedicated advocate for children with disabilities and a champion of inclusion in schools. Diana's personal journey with epilepsy. Her transform native experience with a vagus nerve stimulator and becoming a parent have fueled her mission to support families navigating special education. With over 22 years in the education sector, from a general education teacher and bilingual school psychologist to a director of special education, Diana brings a wealth of knowledge and a heartfelt commitment to empowering parents to advocate for her children, for their children. Well, you know what your children do. So join me as Diana shares her insights on creating a more inclusive education system and her passionate advocacy for students with disabilities. But wait a minute. Something's not right here. It says over 22 years in the education sector. 

Diana Fannon 1:06
That's correct. 

Rich Bennett 1:08
Okay. So you're at the time you were a student from kindergarten, right? 

Diana Fannon 1:12
Already like this. Already Like. This is my. Favorite podcast. Ever. 

Rich Bennett 1:18
Yes, I read that. 22 years. That's amazing. Yeah, that is. So before we get into the education part, if you don't mind, tell everybody your story, because and correct me if I'm wrong. You weren't born with epilepsy. How how old were you when you found out you had epilepsy? 

Diana Fannon 1:39
I was 17. 

Rich Bennett 1:41
Wow. 

Diana Fannon 1:42
So it was right before it was my senior year of high school. So right before I left for college. 

Rich Bennett 1:48
Oh, geez. 

Diana Fannon 1:50
So it was a it was a little bit of a shock. Well, not a little bit of anything. It was a massive shock to to me, to my family. And it was it was maybe to this day, the hardest thing that I've that I faced and had. To. Kind of adjust to in my life. 

Rich Bennett 2:10
So did you already graduate from high school when it started? No. 

Diana Fannon 2:14
It was December of my senior year. 

Rich Bennett 2:16
Oh, yeah. Please tell me you did not have that that seizure in high school. 

Diana Fannon 2:21
I did. And I had it at home. Yeah. So that was that was a, you know, a slightly my, my, one of my friends and I call it, you know, a slightly tarnished or rusty silver lining. Right. So it's it's it's not necessarily good, but it's the best of a bad situation. So it could have been worse. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 2:39
Because you know how kids are, especially. I take it you went to a public school. I did. And you know how they can be in public school That and I hate to say it, but it's true. Some kids would probably just sit back, grab their cell phone and start record. Well, today. 

Diana Fannon 2:55
But back then, we didn't have. Yeah. Right. 

Rich Bennett 2:58
But but I have to say, we just spoke very passionately. Nothing's happening. 

Diana Fannon 3:02
Right. Or they make fun of you or they, you know, there'd be, there'd be the either the nothing or the something bad. Right. Yes, you're correct. 

Rich Bennett 3:12
So when you were home, you had that first seizure? Yeah, I did. I'm sorry. I'm not that familiar with epilepsy. What leads to that? Do we know? 

Diana Fannon 3:26
So in my case, we. We don't know. I looking back, I had had a few small tremors where I'd been holding something and my hand had sort of started to shake really this it happened over the course of maybe a year, but we didn't know what it was. None of us knew that that was leading up to what ended up being a tonic clonic or in the past they referred to it as a grand mal seizure. 

But it happened. One morning I was up really early for a swim practice, so it was, you know, 545 I think, or 445. And my sister happened to be home visiting from college and she heard what she describes as a big thud. And she said it was I think it was, again, a little rough on her. Right. They you talk about epilepsy on the person, but you don't people don't always talk about the family experience. And it is it's very you know she found yeah. 

Rich Bennett 4:22
For both I mean yeah for everybody. 

Diana Fannon 4:25
Yeah. So she found me and they call the ambulance and and I went to the hospital and they made the diagnosis that day typically. Wow. People will wait for more. Yeah. They'll, they'll wait too often. Wait for more than one seizure to happen. But they were correct. I did end up having more seizures after. That got. So yeah, but I left for I left for college. Let's see, in December, I left for college about six months later. Seven months later, I headed off to Yale and I was I wasn't really prepared for dealing with it. Well, you know, they they give you some medication and they say, here you go. And there I didn't have a lot of education. I didn't really know what I was getting into. 

Rich Bennett 5:09
All right. So you mentioned swimming. You had swim practice. So I take it you are competing. Are you still able to after that? 

Diana Fannon 5:20
Yeah, I was. Yeah. So I continued swimming and that was part of what I was going to Yale to do, you know, I was doing to swim and. And I was. I was. I was excited. Yeah. But it was I will say it was hard though, because one of the things with seizures, everyone has sort of different triggers, but one that's fairly consistent is sleep, right? Most people with with seizures need to get a lot of sleep to prevent them. And going to college, it's you're not really. No kidding. Yeah, right. So it was hard for me to kind of keep up with everything. Wow. Because I wanted to do what everyone else was doing. Right. And some people are probably better at being responsible. But I or saying no to things, I guess is a better way to say that. And I was still kind of processing all of the new information and what do I need to do to manage my epilepsy? What do I need to do to balance school work and swimming and friends and seizures? It's it's quite the unfun cocktail of of Yeah. Things to to figure out. And so by my second year of college I ended up stopping or the end of my second year I stopped swimming just because there were there was a lot mourning practices and meets. And yeah. And grades and all of it. And so it really impacted me in a way that I don't think I fully understood. And so I ended up taking a semester off my third year, okay, too. And then I went back to Florida to live with my family. And, and I worked a little bit and went to went to therapy and and I just I really it had impacted me. I was depressed. I was anxious. You know, I had a lot just going on, which was what I needed, you know, to fully kind of understand what was going on. And then I was able to go back and really have a fantastic year, right once I returned to Yale, because not to say that my sort of epilepsy journey was over, but I was able to really process as much as I needed to in that moment and to go back and really just be a college kid, you know, And because it's fun, you know, college is supposed to be fun and you're supposed to be learning and you're supposed to be hanging out with your friends. Right. And I was I wasn't. I mean, I was I was doing a lot of those things, but I was also having seizures. 

Rich Bennett 7:57
Which is not fun, right? 

Diana Fannon 7:59
Yeah. So I needed to find some balance with that. And and I and I did achieve some balance. And then, you know, I finished college and moved out to Los Angeles and started sort of that next part of my journey. 

Rich Bennett 8:16
Okay, Women. So where are you from originally? 

Diana Fannon 8:20
I'm from Florida. 

Rich Bennett 8:21
That's a big swimmer. What part of Florida 

near Tampa. 

Diana Fannon 8:26
Tampa is the biggest city. I'm from Indian Rocks Beach area. 

Rich Bennett 8:28
That's a big switch from that to Los Angeles. 

Diana Fannon 8:32
It is a big switch. Yeah. I had some friends who I my best friend had moved out to LA, and so that's how I ended up here. 

Rich Bennett 8:39
Okay, so you went out there because of your friends? 

Diana Fannon 8:42
Yeah, I did. 

Rich Bennett 8:43
Okay. Okay. So I take it with Yale. You were you went to Yale to be to get your, I guess, your degree in education? 

Diana Fannon 8:53
No, I had no plans. So work in education at that moment. 

Rich Bennett 8:57
Oh, okay. 

Diana Fannon 8:59
So I. I got my degree in psychology. 

Rich Bennett 9:02
Oh, okay. 

Diana Fannon 9:03
And so, yeah, so when I came out. Which helps. 

Rich Bennett 9:06
With. 

Diana Fannon 9:06
Education. It does. It does. Seems like there's a big need for. Yeah, but I, my first job was was working as a nurse psychiatric institute at UCLA, so I was doing research and geriatric depression was our first study that I worked on. Jerry So I hate depression. Yeah. Wow. It was, it was interesting. It was really interesting. 

Rich Bennett 9:33
Oh, man, I'm glad you would. That's a whole nother podcast I'm going to have to do. I never thought about that. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Wow. How long were you in that field for doing that, or. 

Diana Fannon 9:47
Just not very long. 

Rich Bennett 9:48
Okay. 

Diana Fannon 9:49
So it was just it was just a year because I was a research assistant. So supporting with the research that we were doing, we were doing some assessments and, and they were doing combining like functional MRI eyes with it. So they were studying the brain and also doing the assessments while it was happening. And I, I was thinking about getting my Ph.D., which would have been a lot more research focused. And that's when I learned that I really liked working with people more than just the research piece of it, right? That's when I And then I ended up in pharmaceutical sales. Huh? 

I know for an antidepressant, though, so I did sort of stay in the same okay with with Celexa, which was, you know, which was an antidepressant. That was not the right field for me. 

Rich Bennett 10:39
But I it's a hard field. 

Diana Fannon 10:40
I always kind of It was not. Yeah, it's they yes, it was. I. I that's also another podcast. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 10:50
Oh I know my nephew. He's in that field. 

Diana Fannon 10:53
Right. It's also another podcast. It I, you know, my background with a degree in psychology and having worked in the hospitals and stuff was it was it was a good fit. Right. Technically it was a good. Fit. 

Personality wise. It was not necessarily a good fit for me. Wow. So, so I ended up, you know, I ended up in education. My mom is a teacher. My I had always said that, you know, I knew I wanted to help people. I knew I wanted to connect with with kids. I had coached swimming growing up and and I hadn't yet figured out how to connect with my disability and how to use that as sort of a vehicle for for connection yet. 

Rich Bennett 11:36
Right. 

Diana Fannon 11:36
And so through my work as a teacher which so so I ended up so I ended up being a teacher. So there I had another good friend. Sorry, I'm skipping ahead. Oh, you're. 

Rich Bennett 11:46
Fine. You're fine. 

Diana Fannon 11:49
I had I had another good friend from college who had started working as a teacher. And so I had visited him and found sort of some opportunities to become a teacher without. But I didn't have a credential. Right. So I didn't have and there are ways to do that as they have something called the District Intern Program in Los Angeles where you work with you go straight to work in the district. In this case, it was Los Angeles Unified, 

which is our second largest district in the country. And so it's a big district, but there are a lot of opportunities for them to bring you on and train you. And so so I did that. I my mom at the time, again, she was a teacher. She was a course teacher. Fabulous. Just incredible. That's what I grew up seeing. But I never really wanted it. Like it wasn't something that I thought that I would do. She kept telling me the whole time I was getting this, that I was part of this program. You really should work in high school. And I said, No, no, no, no. Elementary is fine, you know, not listening to my mom because I'm in my twenties and I know better or so. So I started teaching elementary school about a year in. I was like, Oh, she's right. So I love the kids, right? I absolutely love the kids. But the teaching is not for me like the teaching aspect of it. So then I meet a school psychologist. I didn't even know there was such a field as schools, like, Oh, I don't know why. No, I had no idea. And I don't know why I didn't know. I don't know if it wasn't a thing in Florida. I don't know if they don't talk enough about it in grad and colleges and things. But as soon as I connected with our school psychologist, I was like, Oh, this is this is it. This is for me. So by my second year, I was like, okay. So I went to grad school for that. I got my degree and then it connected with me. All the pieces fit together with my background, my, my own disability, working with kids with disabilities, figuring out how to work, support families, and and even aside from working with kids with disabilities, it just connecting on the social emotional component and and because when I was teaching elementary school, which is what I taught, I taught fourth and fifth grade, it wasn't always about kids disabilities. It was about just connecting with kids and their stories and working with families. And and I loved that. That was that was my hey, that was my job. Yeah. So yeah, so that's so that's how I got to doing the work that I do today. That's a very long story about how I ended up. 

Rich Bennett 14:17
Oh no, I love it. But I have one. One question though, about all of that. 

Diana Fannon 14:22
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:23
Are you still swimming? 

Diana Fannon 14:27
It's a good question. So currently no, but I have off and on throughout the year. Okay. I have I've done a little bit. You know, they have masters swim teams so I've done a little bit, I've done a little bit here and there. But it's been and it has probably then ten or 15 years since I've since I've been in the water. 

Rich Bennett 14:45
Now with especially of teaching kids with disabilities. And I don't I know here where I'm at like we have swim teams in school which apparently you did as well where you're teaching. Do they have swim teams? 

Diana Fannon 15:02
They do. So we've got California has. When I first started work as a school psychologist, I helped out with a team a little bit. Okay. So they've yeah, they've got teams. 

Rich Bennett 15:13
Now. 

Diana Fannon 15:13
In. 

Rich Bennett 15:14
A big question for you, though. 

Diana Fannon 15:17
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 15:18
Kids with disabilities, are they allowed to compete And if they can't, Yeah, why the hell not? 

Diana Fannon 15:25
I know it's so I will tell you right now I it's been yes there are kids with kids disabilities should be part of it. Yes. Of every single team and should be allowed to be part of every single team. And if they can't be, then we we. I'm you. Nobody can see me. I'm doing air. Quotes. I forget that I'm. On a podcast. 

So for those of you who can't see me, we is is whoever we are. Right to school. Whether it's the district, whether it's the teacher, can. 

Rich Bennett 16:00
You coach. 

Diana Fannon 16:01
The community? That's exactly right. We should be supporting students disabilities and being part of every team. And there are there are very few moments where it should not be the case. And the only time that's the case is if it's safety. Right? Right. If there's a real risk for safety, then then we would just have a conversation about how to make it accessible in another way. Right. So it's not a no, it's just a how. Yeah, right. Like, so what's the other way to do this then? 

And, and I think that I know in my district, in my previous district, everywhere that I have worked, the conversation has always or the conversation I've tried to have is, okay, if not here, then where? If not now, then when? Right. It's so it's and it's not a it should never be a roadblock. It should never be a stopping. Right. It should always be a you know, it's kind of I've said this in a I said this in some other conversation I had and it's, you know, you know better. You do better, right? So it we shouldn't we shouldn't be getting upset with people or we should we should, I guess, assume positive intent is what I like to do. It's hard sometimes, but I like to assume that people are trying to do their best. And if they're not doing what I think or know is the best according to the law, then I like to think that they just don't know yet. So let me give them the information and let me work with them. Right. And then try to get them there. 

Rich Bennett 17:33
So no big question for you, because 

I'm a big stickler on this thing. On I like to see kids with differing abilities because we can all learn from them. But something I think is missing, not just in public schools, but in private schools as well. And I want your take on this because you've done you've done elementary school, but do you feel that teachers all teachers from pre-K on up should have some type of education when it comes to working with kids with disabilities? 

Diana Fannon 18:15
100%. This is something now because I work as a director of special Ed, Right. So and when I was a school psych, I worked in high school. So I've seen kind of across the board and I what I again, what I like to think, like I mentioned, is presuming positive intent, right? A lot of what I hear from teachers, general education teachers, is that it's not that they don't want to work with the kids with disabilities. It's that they don't feel confident, they don't feel comfortable. So I think that it's something that credentialing and credentialing departments or universities need to continue kind of working on and evolving their practices is, you know, how are we supporting our teachers coming out of university, going into the classroom? Because inclusion and inclusive practices and and the least restrictive environment as it applies to, you know, the federal law, it's not going away. Right. We're going to continue having more kids with disabilities included in general education. I think more. How are we? Yeah, 100%. So how are we helping our general education teacher feel prepared for that? And how are we helping them serve our students? Yeah, right. Because it's there are always going to be special education teachers who are providing direct services. But we need to like kind of shift the burden a little bit. And I don't I know I don't mean burden. Maybe workload is a better way to say it because I don't mean burden as like it's a bad thing. I just work. I mean workload, right? 

Rich Bennett 19:52
Like and that's the thing and correct me if I'm wrong because you've been in the field for 22 years. I've never been in the field, But just from what I've been seeing, it seems like now with, you know, with the opioid addiction, which, you know, the people that are addicted are having kids, which can also 

create disabilities right over babies. I believe there's also, whether it be mental illness or whatever, which could lead to other things. But does it seem to you like you're seeing a rise of different disabilities in kids nowadays? 

Diana Fannon 20:33
So there's a lot of questions about that and questions about whether or not we're getting whether there's an increase, whether we are better at diagnosing it, you know, better at better at finding, you know, more. And I. I think the answer is we don't know. Okay. Right. You know, we don't. 

Rich Bennett 20:54
We hope that there's not. But yeah. 

Diana Fannon 20:57
We hope that we do, because there there is for sure. I will say data does show that we have a higher percentage, for example, of kids with autism right now. Right. Per population like per our demographics, there are definitely there's definitely a higher percentage. The why is a better question, right? Is it that we're better at identifying? Is it that there's actually more you know, are there actually more more children or more people with autism? Because there are also more adults who are being identified, Right? Identified. Right. So there is there's both things that are happening right now. And are our tools more sensitive or our tests more sensitive? Are are people more aware that they're seeking out? Because, you know, we're they're a bunch of adults, 30 years ago who were looking for diagnoses probably, you know, we talk about it a lot more now, which I actually I think is great. I think it's wonderful that we're talking about it and having this right. So I think that's huge as a result. As for COVID, I think, you know, there's a lot of conversations around around what came out of COVID and how that impacted our kids and how that impacted our schools. And I think it impacted everyone differently. Right? Like, I think some of our older kids were some of them were totally fine, right? Some of the older kids were like, cool, I'll work at home, Leave me alone. Let me. Do my. 

Rich Bennett 22:19
Video game. 

Diana Fannon 22:20
Time. That's right. Some of them now, some of the ones who were maybe struggling already. Yeah. You saw them take a turn for the worse. Some kids who have whose parents are really fortunate to be able to be home and to be able to do like it's really like you see you see divides across demographics. You see divides across socioeconomic status. So there's never any one clear answer. And and I think we get really comfortable in saying and I say we particularly in the education community, saying that, oh, well, it was just COVID. 

Rich Bennett 23:01
And those of you listening, she did not due to air quotes, that type. 

Diana Fannon 23:08
Right. I'm going to do better about explaining. 

So we were were quick to say that it was all it's all one thing to lump it all together, but it's never all one thing. And and it's all like there are people have some people have luxuries or privileges that others don't have. Communities, demographics across ethnic and racial divides like they're those exist right like and we have to we have to talk about them sometimes we don't talk about them all the day. 

Rich Bennett 23:43
But but the other good thing is people are becoming more comfortable talking about it, which is always been a problem. You know, it's I'm I mean, I remember growing up, if 

well, if you had ADHD, you didn't. Of course, back then, nobody knew what ADHD was. What did they say? Either dumb or stupid. That's what they said. Right. You know, but nowadays we're learning more about it. We're talking more about it. People, a lot of people it's still a lot more people need to are coming out and talking about like you with your personal journey as well. 

Diana Fannon 24:20
Right. 

Rich Bennett 24:21
You know, and that's something that definitely needs to be done. Yeah. With you because you're in the education field, so you're working with the kids all the time. You were educated in how to do this. Do you think that the the public as a whole well, that the public lot. All right, let's let me rephrase this. Do you believe that we have a problem, too, where we're not educating the parents that have kids with disability? And if we are, how can we fix that? 

Diana Fannon 25:01
So I think that 

I think that parents of kids disabilities are and again, there's not it's not a blanket. Right. But I think by and large, our parents are parents of kids disability is 

are many are are among the more educated of of of what's going on with their kids and what's happening. I don't know that it was always because of the school districts I think many times they are finding it out on their own right. I think that, you know, that's because that's that's part of what, you know, I work in the schools, but I on the side, I you know, I have my my disability and pros, which is. 

Rich Bennett 25:44
Right. 

Diana Fannon 25:45
Working with parents. Right. And I see so much happening in with people in their in their businesses and in their online education. And what parents and parents as advocates for their own kids and 

and I have found out and I've always told parents that I've worked with through the kids in my district, I find out things from parents before I find them out from sometimes even from journal articles. I find it out for peer. Wow. Right. Parents will. Yeah, parents will email me and say, Hey, my daughter's dealing with X, y, Z. How? And we look into this because they're fighting so hard for their kids, for their kids to have access, for their kids, to have, you know, to be connected, to be supported, to be. And they're used to having to fight. Right, Right. And so and and as a result, they are usually really well informed. It's done across the board, right. Because it has to do a lot with, again, privilege and access and means and money and and things like that. Right. So so not every parent has that luxury, right. 

But the parents who do are are they're hugely collaborative, They're hugely supportive. They're they want to help everybody. They want to let other parents know. So I like I said, I think the school system in general tries to support parents, but I don't know. I don't know that it's always as 

what's the word I'm looking for? I don't know that it's always as 

helpful as as we want it to be. Right? We try. Like, you know, I get laughed out of meetings when I'm like, So we'll send you a survey. And the parents are like another survey they like, you know, I'm making light of it. And the parents and I have a really good relationship with my parents, but they're like, we I mean, we've done 75 surveys and so it is the best way to get information. But parents are tired of taking surveys. So you kind of like you want to figure out how to tailor services and tailor support to your families, but it's hard to figure out how to get the right information and how to get things to them. And so they're like, I whatever, it's fine, right? And so as a result. They just they. Don't you know, we call it survey fatigue. In. Our district, you know, So they're just they're tired. 

Rich Bennett 28:27
Of it. Diana, next time, say, look, I promise we're not giving you a survey today, but could you take this questionnaire? Right. Well, there's no surveys or no questionnaires, but would you mind taking this poll? 

Diana Fannon 28:42
Right. Well, that Well, can you. Give us your. Response, these items? So we'll just use this as a lab, right? 

Rich Bennett 28:49
Oh, geez. So actually, what are some key strategies that parents can use to become effective advocates for their children? 

Diana Fannon 28:59
So I think the best thing that I the best thing the first thing I always say is writing, putting things in writing, always. If it's not in writing, it didn't happen right. And even for someone who's like, I love partnering with parents, but if you tell me something on the phone or you tell me something face to face, I may forget it. 30 seconds later, right? Because I'm trying to do anything underhanded. I just my brain doesn't work very well all the time. So put it in writing or it didn't happen. That's the best thing. 

Rich Bennett 29:32
I like that. 

Diana Fannon 29:34
Yeah. The second thing is, and this is for any kind of a meeting, for any kind of anything, I would always suggest. 

Rich Bennett 29:40
Sorry, I heard science. 

Diana Fannon 29:41
I mean. I saw the hands go up. I'm like, Oh, I thought I was the only one here. 

So the other thing is any kind of a meeting, I would always bring someone with You bring. It doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be a lawyer. It doesn't have to be an advocate. It doesn't have to be. It can be. I mean, you're certainly you're always entitled to do that. And there's nothing wrong with that. But even if you're not ready to go that room, bring a bring a friend, bring somebody who is less emotionally invested than you are to just me. A good. 

Rich Bennett 30:16
Idea or. 

Diana Fannon 30:17
Take some notes for you because, I mean, I'm doing that, for example, like my son. I mean, the process of having him assessed and I'm bringing I may even bring two friends. So and I know the thing, right? Like, I know the process, but I don't trust myself. I'm a parent now. I'm not like I don't know what's going on now because I'm I'm in. 

Rich Bennett 30:36
Mom, right? 

Diana Fannon 30:37
So I will bring a friend with me. I will bring somebody just to listen to ask questions, because I don't trust myself to remember the things that I tell people right. So so I take my own advice when I'm going into this with my kid. 

Rich Bennett 30:53
That's a great idea because, yeah, you remember it is completely different. It's completely different. 

Diana Fannon 31:00
I do the same thing with like with medical stuff, right? Like when I go to the hospital, when I go to the doctor, I try to bring somebody with me. Or if it is something serious, right. Not a regular event. But I always say the same thing for medical because hospitals, it's it's. Oh, it's awful. Oh, I know. So I always bring someone with me. 

Rich Bennett 31:17
I mean, I'm the same way because, you know, they're number one, they're they're talking in doctor terms. I have no idea what the hell you're talking about and. Right. Yeah. Especially when my daughter was younger and even my son. 

And it started with my son. I couldn't take them to the doctor anymore because the first time when I took my son, who's the oldest and he had to get them needles, I was ready to leave the doctor out because my son's crying, because the daddy leave so. 

Diana Fannon 31:50
Totally, you. 

Rich Bennett 31:51
Know. And then when they tell you something, this is, you know, I'm not thinking about that. I'm thinking you hurt my son, right? You know, So, yeah, I like that idea. You need to take somebody with you because somebody that could focus on what the doctors are saying, like it's nobody to hold you back. 

Diana Fannon 32:12
Somebody to keep you from getting arrested. 

Rich Bennett 32:14
Exactly. Exactly. So your your work definitely involved supporting families through the legal aspects or special education, including due process and mediation. Right. 

Diana Fannon 32:26
So all I typically will if we get to that point, I can help families file. But I typically won't I typically will hand them off to an attorney. Okay. At that point. Now, it depends on the states, but like in California, where I am, the reason I would hand them off at that point is because fees for the only fees that are reimbursable are attorney's fees in California. So if I were, I think that an attorney is does this all the time do it more seamlessly. But also, if I were to bill them for that kind of stuff, it would just it would be too expensive. And it's not it's not what I do. Right. Like I, I have attorneys who do that for me through my district. So I'm familiar with the process. But it's not I don't have a law degree. They they just they do it more. 

Rich Bennett 33:15
Which makes. 

Diana Fannon 33:15
Sense. I can. Right. So like, I can certainly advise on the process, but I'm not I'm not a lawyer. I play one on TV, but I am not a lawyer. 

Rich Bennett 33:24
Well, can you actually share a story where you were able to help a family with all that? 

Diana Fannon 33:29
Yeah. 

Yeah, I've had I've had a couple and I am I've had one where I that I've been working with where they are. They've just been struggling with, with a district that has not. 

They keep getting kind of the same answer and I find that that's the most common thing, which is they, their concerns fall on deaf ears or so it seems, which is they're like, your son is doing fine, your child's doing fine, and parents are not in agreement. And that's the most common thing. And when a family doesn't feel heard, that is the issue. Right. And in this case that I'm sharing and I'm going to try to be a little vague so I don't reveal any reveal any details. But so the shortest version is that the child was has been struggling and has continued to struggle. The parents have been supporting on their own right and and funding some of the support. 

Rich Bennett 34:38
And okay. 

Diana Fannon 34:39
The school was aware of this and and incorporated it into the document basically saying that the parents are supporting at home. And for me, that's always a red flag. And for me, like when I'm when I see that as a school district, I think parents are providing support. We need to figure out we don't document that ever, because then we become responsible for it. This school district did not to be aware of that. And so they've had to subject to IEPs in a row where they're just saying, Oh, this is how you should use the tutor. And so they documented that which, which seems concerning to me. Yeah. Because instead of changing the level of support, they just documented and discussed how parents should use the tutor. 

And so that and a couple of other things about documenting concerns in a subject area without having any goals or without having any discussion about that area of concern. So then this this parent has done has done their due diligence. They've contacted everyone, they've gone back and forth, they've talked about all the things. And so we we finally just we talked about it and they were promised something that they never received. They were promised support. The child is doing okay. But again, this is being done with a support the financial support of the family. Right. And so that is really what what we try to get the districts to understand, which is it's okay if the family if the family can afford it, that's one thing, right? Then there's no reason it shouldn't be. But it's not a big deal then. But if the family's struggling to cover what's going on with the child, and in this case, the child also has a medical condition which has been a little bit of an issue. And the district doesn't seem to have fully addressed how to support that. So there's there's a lot of layers and we are 

we're we're actually this is one I'm currently dealing with. So we're we're meeting to to see how we can resolve it all. And that's going to happen later. So so that's that's one and there's there's been there's been a few others thought lots of lots of others going on. 

Rich Bennett 37:13
All right. So when are you going to start writing the book or have you who. 

Diana Fannon 37:18
I have not. Well, actually, I should know. I know. I think I am. You know what? I'll keep that under wraps for now. Come back. I I'll. Tell you about it if I. 

Rich Bennett 37:29
That you have to. 

Diana Fannon 37:31
So I've thought about a children's book I like. It would be great to have a children's book. I like. I don't know if I'm ready for a full length book. But I've. Thought about a children's. 

Rich Bennett 37:44
Wish. My wish. My one co-host, Kayla was on right now because she's the one I told you about earlier, but she's written children's books. Oh, yes. And to help. 

Diana Fannon 37:54
Oh, I'm. Going to look her off. Right. Oh. 

Rich Bennett 37:56
Kayla, I'll have to send you the link, but it doesn't matter because you're going to you're going to have to come back going again. And I'm going to have to have her co-host because there's a lot of other things I could talk about you without a doubt. 

Diana Fannon 38:08
Yeah, I would love to. I have, Yes. 

Rich Bennett 38:10
So actually, when what are some misconceptions about special education that you often encounter and how do you manage? 

Diana Fannon 38:21
Oh. There are so many misconceptions about special education in particular, I think, students with disabilities. Well, I think that I think the biggest one is that it's and you you I don't you certainly don't have them because you've already hinted at them. But I think the the biggest misconception is that it's a place, not a service. Right. That special education exists in another room, that it exists in another setting. And I think that that students are students who get special education are less then somehow. And that just because you have an IEP, which is, you know, an individualized education program that you are. Yeah. That you're less than somehow. And rather than getting support to be better, right or not even better, but to get to, to get what you need to be all that you can be. Oh, my God, it sounds like an hour. What is that? An hour? Because, you know, that's. 

Rich Bennett 39:18
I'm a marine. I'll live with slides. 

Diana Fannon 39:21
Right? Yeah. My dad was military, too. But that's not what I. That's not what I. That's okay. Tell me. Right. So. So I but that's I think there are there are so many and I think that also that you have to be at or near grade level in order to be part of a special or a part of a general education class. You can you can get all of the benefits of being being in a general education class, even if you're not at grade level or near grade level being around your if you're neurodiverse being near your neurotypical peers, it's so beneficial for everyone in the class. But I mean, because I mean, society, we're not segregated. Well, depends where you are, but we're not we're typically not segregated in society. So being separated in school isn't preparing anybody for what's to come. And I mean, I there's so many misconceptions. Those are those are big ones. 

Rich Bennett 40:23
So those So you've been to 22 years, which I still find hard to believe. 

I mean that you know what this is what really messes me up because I keep 20 years. I'm thinking eighties now. Okay, So 20 years when it's, you. 

Diana Fannon 40:39
Know, 20 or so I. Started I don't know. This is what you know. 

Rich Bennett 40:44
Within your 22 years, have you seen a big change when it comes to special education? And if so, hopefully for the better? 

Diana Fannon 40:57
Yes, 

I think that it has 

it's hard to say. I think that I see the new people coming out of college, university. I think they are they're coming out with no question about where including students are included. We're I think that 

some of the laws, some of the cases that have that have happened to to set precedent, I think is it's helpful. It's super helpful, which is, you know, there are there are now legal precedents that we educate children with disabilities with their, you know, non-disabled peers. So that helps. So have I seen a change? Yes. Is it slow? Yes. Yes. 

But, you know, I from where I from where I was when I started in 2002 to now, 

it's better. 

Rich Bennett 42:07
But it can be even better. 

Diana Fannon 42:09
Yeah, but it's hard to say though, because it's like education changes slowly. Right. Is historically one of the slowest moving in the it really it's just. Yeah it. Is molasses compared to the rest of the country. Wow I don't know why like I've listened to I've read some stuff, I've listened to some stuff and you know, I was listening to a podcast about about what they're doing in Arkansas and how they're like piloting all this inclusive stuff in Arkansas. And I was like, okay, so let's do what Arkansas does things, things you didn't know you were going to be saying. Yeah, right. Like, but it's happening everywhere about about moving, moving inclusion forward and doing it quickly and getting everybody on board. I don't know if it's because of how big we are. We are a really big state. We do have a lot of stuff going on. There are no. 

Right. I know. But California is it's it's I don't know. But but have I seen positive change? Yes. Are there positive laws? And and, you know, we just passed a a bill about having an alternative pathway to a diploma for students with significant cognitive disabilities. Oh, now kids. Yeah. So that just happened. And, you know, it's not perfect, but it's something step forward, right? We have kids who would have gotten a certificate of completion will now get an actual high school diploma. So it means a lot when it comes to jobs. Right. And that was it came out of the Department of Rehab, which is which is why Because it means something for kids when they apply for jobs. They have a high school diploma. Mm hmm. So so there there are some big moves that are being made. Good. And so I'm you know, it depends on the day you find me. But there are there's definitely been progress, you know, and and I can definitely speak to the progress. I've definitely seen it happening. And there are a lot of really, really committed people who are working really, really hard to make changes. And I'm I'm still here. I'm still in it. So that says something. 

Rich Bennett 44:20
Well, and the thing because you mentioned some of that, sometimes it needs to be quicker, but sometimes slow progress is better than quick progress because that quick progress may not be the best thing at the time. 

Diana Fannon 44:33
And it may not be lasting, right. So that it could. 

Rich Bennett 44:36
Do more harm than good. 

Diana Fannon 44:39
Right. And that can be like a flash in the pan kind of thing. Right? 

Rich Bennett 44:42
So so actually looking towards the future, how do you envision the evolution of special education and inclusion in schools and what changes or advancements are you most hopeful about? 

Diana Fannon 44:58
So I, I see more of of what we've got right now, which is I see more I see less separate classroom, fewer separate classrooms, less segregated settings, you know, less separate settings, more students included in general education, more you know, more extracurricular activities, more more inclusion beyond just the classroom, too. Right? We talked about that a little bit before. I see. I see less less. My my ideal is less fighting for parents. Right. Less parents having to fight for, you know, please let my child do, you know, fill in the blank because that feels icky, you know, and and less children feeling unwanted in the classroom because that is the thing that really pulls at my heartstrings and kind of makes me feel sick at night, you know, which is the that the kids who the kids know how somebody feels about them. Right. I don't care what level of cognition they have. They know. And a lot of our kids, you know, a lot of our kids are are average or slightly below average cognition, but they just have processing difficulties. Right. So we have a whole range. But but they know if they're not wanted. So that's what I that's really what I see more of in the future is that everyone starts to feel accepted 

and and and fewer and just more gen ed classrooms, more co teaching, more partner teaching more so there's more support for everyone, more support for the teacher and more support for the special ed teacher to 

And what was the second part of that question? 

Rich Bennett 46:40
The second part of the question was what changes or advancements are you most hopeful about? 

Diana Fannon 46:50
I think I think I'm most hopeful about, you know, about about that. You know, about about the. Which make sense. Inclusion. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm optimistic about that. It's it's always technically been in the law but there's been more legal challenges to it. There's been more there's been more wins. And even if they've been challenged, they've gone to the Ninth Circuit, they've gone higher up, they've gone. And so I'm optimistic that that people are going to start to just kind of settle into this is how it is. And and then everyone will start to see the benefits of it for all. So I'm that's what I'm crossing my fingers for. 

Rich Bennett 47:32
So something I want you to tell us all about. 

Diana Fannon 47:36
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 47:37
Disability Ed Pros. Yes. That's your business, right? 

Diana Fannon 47:42
It is. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 47:42
Tell everybody what that is and how you can help them. 

Diana Fannon 47:47
Yeah. So that's, you know, that's kind of everything I've been talking about is is pretty much what I do there. Right. Which is I, I work with, with parents. I provide education, a lot of free stuff online. I'm mostly on Instagram these days, but I provide a ton of free education for parents resources. How to advocate for your Child. My my goal really is to empower parents and help parents understand how to how to support their child and how to advocate and how to work with school staff and how to how to do so in a way where you don't have to fight. I don't really. I think that I've been really fortunate to have really positive relationships with families and schools, and it hasn't been adversarial. It hasn't been. I mean, there's one or two, but 99% of the time we've we've been able to really work, work in partnership and work collaboratively. And so I think that I, I have something and I have experience. I have the knowledge to be able to provide it to families who are who are in that place with their kids. And I really want them to be able to to get their kids what their kids legally are entitled to and what they need to have that to have that education. So, you know, so I'll be I don't I've done a few few free webinars. I just started this a few months ago. So I, I have a lot of stuff that's really everything's been free so far, but I'll have some online courses in the future. So my, my goal is really just to provide all of this to, to parents to, to help them. 

Rich Bennett 49:28
You know, what you need to do. Yeah, well, you already started it because on your Web site you have that stored link, which would be a good place to put your book. 

Diane, I'm going to get you to write a book one way or. 

Diana Fannon 49:47
Oh, I'll. Work on it. I'm working on it. I'm way I have. I have some. Thought is. 

Rich Bennett 49:55
So very important. Tell everybody the website so they know how to get in touch with you. 

Diana Fannon 50:00
Yeah, it's disability ed prose dot com and then same thing Instagram as just add disability ed prose. 

Rich Bennett 50:07
Boy, that's a hard one, huh? 

So a question for you. I hope you don't mind me asking this, and if you don't want to answer that, that's fine. You mentioned your son earlier. Yeah. Incest. Now, does he have a different ability as well? 

Diana Fannon 50:24
So we don't totally know. Yeah, he's we so he had some delays. He didn't walk until he was 20 like a month passed. He was two and he had some speech delays and so once he started walking, then his speech kind of took off right. And so he's been in physical therapy, occupational therapy and speech for quite a while. He'll be three in April. So he's been getting early intervention services. Okay. Which I also tell parents about that every state has them and everyone should take advantage of early intervention services in your state. They're free, they're great, get your kid in them. But but yeah, so we're in the process of getting him assessed through through both my you know, through my insurance as well as through the school district to see so we don't have a formal diagnosis. He's just had a lot of delays right. And so we're looking into a few different ones. So like I said, I'm a parent going through the process. And you know what? We'll find out. We'll find out what they say about him. 

Rich Bennett 51:30
Now. Is he your only child? 

Diana Fannon 51:32
He is my child, yeah. And he's he's he's delightful. He's all right. Love and happiness. 

Rich Bennett 51:39
Another blast. 

Diana Fannon 51:41
I mean, they grew so much so fast. 

Rich Bennett 51:44
So. 

Diana Fannon 51:45
I know. I can't believe he's almost three. It's crazy to me, so. But, you know, it's. 

Rich Bennett 51:51
Go ahead. 

Diana Fannon 51:51
I'm sorry. I was going to say it's fun. It's fun for me to be able to go through this process. Fun maybe isn't the right word, but it's good to be able to go through the process on this side of things. 

Rich Bennett 51:59
You said he's three right or he's bad to be. 

Diana Fannon 52:02
Three will be three, will be three. 

Rich Bennett 52:03
So yeah, kind of. Yeah. Well really can explained the epilepsy to him yet. 

Diana Fannon 52:09
All right so I have talked. About it a little bit with him only because he really likes turning lights on and off. Oh so. And. 

So I've tried to give him the kid version of, you know, it's not, you know, it's a lot for Mommy's brain to handle, like, let's try to do that. So, you know, he takes it. Takes it what? Right. What he can. 

Rich Bennett 52:32
Handle. So tell him not to become a deejay and get the strobe lights. 

Diana Fannon 52:37
Right? 

Rich Bennett 52:38
Wow. 

Diana Fannon 52:39
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 52:39
So, actually, how how are you doing now with your epilepsy? 

Diana Fannon 52:44
It's been. It's been really I had one seizure a little over a year ago, but I have had the VNS device, the vagus nerve stimulator for a little over five years, and I've only had one seizure. So it's been really, really great for me. 

Rich Bennett 52:57
And what exactly is that? 

Diana Fannon 53:00
So I call it what's the word? I call it like a pacemaker for your brain, really. So it's basically like it's implanted in my chest, my left leg below my clavicle. 

Rich Bennett 53:15
Okay. 

Diana Fannon 53:16
And it's like a battery. And then there's a lead wire that goes from, like, along my vagus nerve. So it goes like, you know, below or along my neck all the way, like it's wrapped kind of around my vagus nerve. And it it goes every 5 minutes for a certain amount of time. And it delivers, you know, kind of impulses basically like it stimulates the vagus nerve. I guess it's. Wait a second. Yeah. So that's how I compare it to that. For people who are kind of unfamiliar. I mean, I was right with it before I got it, and it seems to have worked really well for for my for my type of epilepsy now. And yeah, so I'm still on some medication, but I'm on less medication than I was before. And other than that one seizure, I've, you know. Yeah. Five years. How long is that brain. 

It's been. A while. It's one of the older treatments, but I think it's just it's only four or maybe not older, but not, it's not, but it's not super new. 

Rich Bennett 54:20
I'll be darned. I got it. Yeah, But then again, like I said, I really haven't talked to anybody with epilepsy either. 

Diana Fannon 54:30
Right. So it's not something that you'll necessarily need to know about. You know, it's it just happened to work for mine and my doctor. We've kind of exhausted other things. And this. This happened to work for me. 

Rich Bennett 54:45
That's great, though. 

Diana Fannon 54:46
Yeah, it's been. It's been a real. It was really nice, particularly before I thought about having a baby. Yeah, right. Because I wanted to make sure I don't know that I would have otherwise. 

Rich Bennett 54:57
So has the baby been in the pool yet? The baby? He's almost three. 

Diana Fannon 55:02
Okay, He's almost three. But yes, he has. He. I've taken him a few times. He didn't always love it, but we're going to keep going. 

Rich Bennett 55:11
One, I have a funny feeling you're going to have an Olympian on your hands. 

Diana Fannon 55:16
I don't know. We'll see. We're going to push him for it. I've tried my my best friend has has a son who is an incredible swimmer. And he doesn't doesn't really like it. So I've been unable to convince him. 

So my powers of persuasion hopefully are better with my own. 

Rich Bennett 55:32
Well, I know he would have a good teacher. 

Diana Fannon 55:35
Oh, so. 

Rich Bennett 55:36
Is there before I get to my last question, is there anything you would like to add? 

Diana Fannon 55:42
I, I know this has been this has been a really, really fun, really fun conversation. And I feel like I've gotten to share a lot about, you know, about what I do and about special education and about, you know, all the important. 

Rich Bennett 55:56
Things I've learned a lot. And I want to thank you for that. 

Diana Fannon 55:59
Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 55:59
And thank you for everything you're doing. So trick question here. You know how many interviews you've done so far? 

Diana Fannon 56:11
Um, I don't I want to say five. 

Rich Bennett 56:14
Oh, that's it. 

Diana Fannon 56:15
Five or six? Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 56:17
Well, this is this is going to be too easy for you, 

man, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Okay, So for all the interviews you've been on, is there anything a host has never asked you that you wish they would have asked you? And if so, what would be that question? What would be your answer? 

Diana Fannon 56:39
Well, this is not easy at all. I don't know the answer to this is. I feel like I need to come up with something very, very profound and insightful and like, you know, what's the meaning of life or something like that? Oh. I know right now I don't have an answer to that. By the way. 

Rich Bennett 56:59
Nobody does. 

Diana Fannon 57:01
I know. It's that's that's what I stayed up late thinking about doing and thinking about college and having seizures. Right. 

So. Well, what what bad decision as an. 18 year old that you wish you could take back? They were they. 

Rich Bennett 57:20
Were bad decisions. They were learning. 

Diana Fannon 57:23
It was your learning experiences, right? Yeah. 

No, I don't. I think I mean, I like I like the unexpected questions. I like the things that I can't plan for. I, I don't I come in as a blank slate, not knowing where it's going to go. And I very much appreciate that. So I don't know that I ever expected. Anything. I had. You know. I. Yeah, I like I like not being able to prepare for things sometimes because it, it, it makes it a little more organic and a little more interesting. 

Rich Bennett 57:56
I'll see the next time you come on and you'll have a lot more interviews under your, under your belt and it'll be a lot easier for you to answer it. Some people have thrown me off when I ask a question. 

Diana Fannon 58:06
Oh, really? 

Rich Bennett 58:07
Like one person just had to believe. They're like, Well, yeah, you didn't ask me what my favorite color was. I was like, Well, then I'll be. 

Diana Fannon 58:15
Like, Okay, yeah, you're the. 

Rich Bennett 58:17
One. But I mean, just different. I mean. 

Diana Fannon 58:20
Yeah, like, I'm not sure that I like. There's some things that I think maybe are sort of more, quote unquote typical questions that I don't know that anybody really cares about. 

Rich Bennett 58:31
And that's and that's one of the reasons I ask that question is because a lot of times your host will ask the same question right over and over again. And, you. 

Diana Fannon 58:41
Know, Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 58:42
What's the what's the one that they used to ask all the time? Oh, if if you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be in. Why. 

Diana Fannon 58:51
Oh God. 

Rich Bennett 58:52
Like huh. I guess a cedar. Because I smell good. I don't know. 

Diana Fannon 59:00
I don't even know that I That's a good. 

Rich Bennett 59:02
Keep the bugs away. 

Diana Fannon 59:03
You know. I don't even know that I would have an answer I don't know enough about. I'm not one of the arborists. 

Rich Bennett 59:09
I don't know. I just know I like the smell of cedar. 

Diana Fannon 59:12
So that's. It's a good one, though. I don't know anything about this. I would not be able to answer that question. 

Rich Bennett 59:17
Well, the door is definitely open. Like I said, I want to get you on again because there's a lot of different subjects I want to talk to you about. 

Diana Fannon 59:26
I would love to come back. This was fantastic so. 

Rich Bennett 59:28
I will I want to get a hold of my other co-host and I'll tell them to listen to this and say we need to plan something probably for the fall. 

Diana Fannon 59:38
All right. 

Rich Bennett 59:38
So can do it. So but I want to thank you so much. Thank you for everything you're doing. 

Diana Fannon 59:44
And thank you. 

Rich Bennett 59:46
Good luck with everything. A You'll let me know when his first swim competition is. 

I will definitely let me know when you start that book. 

Diana Fannon 59:57
Oh my goodness. No, no promises, but I will. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:00
I'll take Dianna. Thanks. 

Diana Fannon 1:00:02
Thank you so, so much.