How to Build High-Performance Organizations with Ryan McShane

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning ten this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we shared laughs, tears and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next ten years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios. Harford County Living presents conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Today, I'm going to get kind. 

No, no, no. The truth is. 

Rich Bennett 1:00
Welcome to Conversations with Rich Bennett. Today I am joined by Greg Ward, who is sitting in the Q Who seat. And we welcome Ryan McShane, a seasoned professional with over 20 years of experience. Ryan is the founder of H.R. Evolution, a consulting firm specializing in human resources, leadership development and career transitions. His diverse background spans the public, private and nonprofit sector, shaping his expertise in building high performance leaders in organizations across Maryland and Pennsylvania. A past president of the Chesapeake Human Resource Association, Ryan is passionate about fostering cultural transformation and leadership growth. He helps individuals and organizations unlock their full potential by promoting curiosity, awareness and purpose driven leadership. Get your notebooks ready and get ready to take some notes because this is going to be a good one. Tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean, it was just something you've always. Wanted to do growing up was H.R.. 

Ryan McShane 2:16
So it's funny you say that. I still remember very clearly sitting down my sophomore year at Penn State and my dad's going, All right, boy, this undeclared stuff will fly. And he. We need to come up with something. And he and I literally sat down and went through the big book of majors at Penn State, which is about a three inch book and. 

Rich Bennett 2:38
Good Lord. 

Ryan McShane 2:38
You're flipping through. And that's when I discovered there's a mushroom major at Penn State. 

Greg Derwart 2:43
Oh, my gosh. 

Ryan McShane 2:43
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 2:43
What? 

Ryan McShane 2:44
a mushroom major. Yeah, you can major in mushrooms. In any case, that's when I discovered. 

Greg Derwart 2:50
The. 

Ryan McShane 2:50
The only description of majors that appealed to me. Was labor and industrial relations. 

Greg Derwart 2:59
Wow. 

Rich Bennett 2:59
Okay. 

Ryan McShane 3:00
And it was through the description of the focus on how we relate in a professional environment, the relationship between labor 

Rich Bennett 3:08
Bieber 

Ryan McShane 3:08
and 

Rich Bennett 3:08
and. 

Ryan McShane 3:09
management. And I grew up as a kid where we sat at the dinner table and talked. Mom and dad would talk about their work. And I remember thinking very clearly, Well, this work thing doesn't sound like something I want 

Rich Bennett 3:21
Blizzard 

Ryan McShane 3:21
to do. 

Rich Bennett 3:21
like fun, right? 

Ryan McShane 3:23
Sharon here. 

Greg Derwart 3:24
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 3:24
Not. 

Greg Derwart 3:25
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 3:25
Exactly. But for some reason, that resonated with me. The description of the major and I thought, well, let's go in this direction. And I always had an interest in psychology, why people do what they do. I think it's fascinating. I'm fascinated to learn more about myself in the process. 

Greg Derwart 3:43
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 3:44
And so I minored in psychology. I majored in labor and industrial relations, and it just seemed a natural evolution to go in the position of human resources. 

Rich Bennett 3:53
Right. 

Greg Derwart 3:54
you? 

Ryan McShane 3:54
So I started my career of all places. And you'll see what I mean when I say, of all places, I'm working for the Department of Defence. An average. Proving grounds. 

Rich Bennett 4:06
Oh, wow. 

Ryan McShane 4:07
The civilian personnel operation center just rolls off. 

And they've got an acronym for everything. So they called it NSC pork. Well, I did job classification and staffing, and that's when I got my real exposure to professional exposure. And, you know, of course, I was told to go in that direction because mom and dad as good boomers that they were slash senior veteran. 

Rich Bennett 4:34
Mm. 

Ryan McShane 4:35
And job security is what it's all about. So I was told, Ryan, go work for Aberdeen Proving Grounds. You have a job for the rest of your life. There was no consideration based on Ryan's personality, the culture of the environment, anything like that. So I started to really get an inkling of what I was being exposed to early on, where I was literally sitting next to someone who fell asleep at her desk every single day. And I was producing nine times with this person did on a daily basis. 

Greg Derwart 5:09
Sure. 

Ryan McShane 5:09
Of course, they were asleep in half the time, so I could. 

Rich Bennett 5:12
Right. 

Ryan McShane 5:12
In any case, the concern that I had as a young idealist coming out of college wanting to change the world is why is it that I can. 

Rich Bennett 5:21
Produce nine times what this person does. 

Ryan McShane 5:23
And 

Rich Bennett 5:23
And. 

Ryan McShane 5:23
still get paid thousands of dollars less than this per. 

Rich Bennett 5:27
Mm. 

Ryan McShane 5:28
Only for the sheer fact that she had darkened the door of this agency two years before me. And consequently, it's a seniority based system. So seniority wins out, 

Rich Bennett 5:38
Right. 

Ryan McShane 5:38
so you can basically come in there, sit at that desk, fall asleep and get paid thousands of dollars if you continue to do it. 

Greg Derwart 5:45
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 5:46
You 

Greg Derwart 5:46
With 

Ryan McShane 5:46
know. 

Greg Derwart 5:46
your calling. 

Ryan McShane 5:47
Upset anybody. 

Rich Bennett 5:48
Right. 

Ryan McShane 5:49
You know, that's the whole thing. And that's the issue of disengagement that will probably touch on a little bit today. Disengagement, that idea that people were showing up to do just enough to get with. 

Rich Bennett 6:00
To get by. 

Ryan McShane 6:00
Get by without getting in trouble and still collect that paycheck. And so again, back back to the DOD I. 

Rich Bennett 6:08
Stood. 

Ryan McShane 6:09
No, I didn't either. And so I was literally told, we are in control of your career. You're not in control of your career. And that was a shock to myself. 

Rich Bennett 6:18
What? 

Ryan McShane 6:19
Yeah. Yeah. Because I had applied for a couple of internships that would allow me to. Climb that the step grade ladder 

Rich Bennett 6:27
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 6:28
quickly. Expedite me and didn't didn't make. I applied three times and didn't get it. And I said, I don't understand what more you want. I'm more you know, more qualified than some of the people that I see being selected. 

Rich Bennett 6:42
You're 

Ryan McShane 6:43
A. 

Rich Bennett 6:43
a better asset. 

Ryan McShane 6:44
Yeah. So I was like, you know, this is getting a little frustrating, you know, and I just want to grow and, you know, here I am, hungry to grow. I would think that that would be well received. 

Greg Derwart 6:52
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 6:53
Proven myself. I have great ratings and things of that nature. 

Greg Derwart 6:56
Sure. 

Ryan McShane 6:57
Well, Ryan, you'll move up when we're ready for you, too. So what's that mean? I said I have no control over my growth. No, we have more control over your career than you do. And I said, Well, that's evident. 

Rich Bennett 7:11
Government work. 

Ryan McShane 7:12
That's exactly right. And I said, Well, listen, if that's the case, I think I'm in a different environment and culture than I need to be. So I went to the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I went from an environment where their motto is, We've got a forum for that. 

The dot.com world where they are literally flying the plane as they're building it. 

Rich Bennett 7:33
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 7:34
And it was it was a kind of sink or swim environment. It was really neat. I was in charge 

Rich Bennett 7:38
charge. 

Ryan McShane 7:38
of a little under 30 clients throughout the mid-Atlantic region, and I was the single point of contact for all our needs. 

Rich Bennett 7:45
Right. 

Ryan McShane 7:45
Anything from right in that employee handbook to help them with their policies and procedures to mediating employee relations issues. It would 

Greg Derwart 7:52
Wow. 

Ryan McShane 7:52
do payroll to benefits, you name it. So I really got a good exposure. The dotcom bubble burst and I was one of those affected by that burst. The company was sold to another larger professional employment organization. So it was basically like, yeah, that's that's not viable any longer. 

Greg Derwart 8:10
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 8:11
And interestingly enough, I ended up landing in a place that I thought was going to be my forever home. I went to long term care and I was the H.R. manager for education and programs for an organization called IMA Stood for Episcopal Ministries to the. 

Rich Bennett 8:29
Okay? 

Ryan McShane 8:30
So I thought, hey, our faith based environment, 

Rich Bennett 8:33
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 8:33
you know, nonprofit, they are here because they want. Here. I thought, this is great. And i was reporting to the vp of h.r. A one. Wonderful woman who really had a great deal of interest in developing people. 

Rich Bennett 8:47
People, right? 

Ryan McShane 8:48
And she developed everybody around her. That was her modus operandi. 

Greg Derwart 8:52
Mm. 

Ryan McShane 8:52
Really? 

Rich Bennett 8:53
I 

Ryan McShane 8:53
I 

Rich Bennett 8:53
thought 

Ryan McShane 8:54
thought 

Rich Bennett 8:54
this. 

Ryan McShane 8:54
this was really neat. And so there I supported their corporate office with the H.R. management function. And then I provided soft skills training to 850 plus employees across three different locations. 

Greg Derwart 9:05
Cool. 

Rich Bennett 9:05
A lot more than 30. 

Ryan McShane 9:06
It was. US. And I truly love training and development. You know, there's light bulb moments where people really get it. That's what trips my trigger and to see people grow and develop. And that's what I ultimately wanted for myself. 

Rich Bennett 9:20
Right. 

Ryan McShane 9:20
But if I could pour that out for other people, the ripple effect of that benefits everyone. So that's what it was about for me. And I loved it. I was there for almost two years, and you're probably asking, well, why not longer than two years? Well, great question. 

Right around the two. 

Rich Bennett 9:39
Thousand for 

Ryan McShane 9:40
Four time 

Rich Bennett 9:40
time. 

Ryan McShane 9:40
frame. And if you recall, back then, the height of conversation was the insolvency of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. It's going away. It's disappearing. So while we once thought there's gold in the old. This is a great, viable career that will sustain anybody for a long period of time. Unfortunately, the CFO of that organization over and over committed themselves for in terms of capital projects. We had a multi-billion dollar capital project that they initially. And right around the same timeframe. So all the people that they thought were investors. 

Rich Bennett 10:17
Right. 

Ryan McShane 10:18
Future just disappeared. 

Rich Bennett 10:19
Appeared. 

Ryan McShane 10:20
Just as 

Rich Bennett 10:21
Wow. 

Ryan McShane 10:21
a. And they were left holding. 

Rich Bennett 10:22
But that. 

Ryan McShane 10:23
So what are they supposed to do but find money? And so they fired that CFO. They hired a new CFO. And what's his job to do but slash and burn. And so we took the office of 13 staff down to six. And it was like, yeah, it was last in, first out, highest paid. I find myself in a downsized position and I was like, Oh my goodness, I thought I was going to be here for a long time. And that's when I learned Never say never, Rich. 

I learned a lot in this. 

And the. 

Rich Bennett 10:59
Holy cow. 

Ryan McShane 11:00
Was when I left the Department of Defense in the federal government. I said, I'll never go back to the public sector. Well, at this point, I had tasted the dot.com world that. At this point. I went to the nonprofit. And through no fault of my own here I am looking for a new opportunity because the company. Made a poor financial. 

Rich Bennett 11:22
Right. 

Ryan McShane 11:22
And I had to take the hit for that. So I thought, you know what? My wife being eight months pregnant at this time. 

Rich Bennett 11:28
Oh, God. 

Ryan McShane 11:29
It may be a real good idea that I focus on job security again. So I had to operate. 

Rich Bennett 11:35
Eternity is in my lab. But this 

Ryan McShane 11:37
At the same time, 

Rich Bennett 11:38
one 

Ryan McShane 11:38
one 

Rich Bennett 11:38
was. 

Ryan McShane 11:38
was working for one of the big four accounting firms in downtown Baltimore, and they were willing to throw some good money at me. 

Rich Bennett 11:44
Right. 

Ryan McShane 11:45
And then one. 

Rich Bennett 11:46
What was working for. 

Ryan McShane 11:47
We're a local Baltimore County government entity. And I thought, hmm, what am I going to do here? And I sat down with the wife and talked about it and said, the money looks good downtown. And she was like, Yeah, but the job. 

Rich Bennett 11:59
Job security looks 

Ryan McShane 12:00
That's 

Rich Bennett 12:00
at. 

Ryan McShane 12:00
real good along with those benefits. 

Rich Bennett 12:02
Huh? 

Ryan McShane 12:02
County structure and you'd kind of be the big cheese at this place. So why don't you consider that? And I had to weigh it. And really, we've had. 

Rich Bennett 12:12
Look at the pros 

Ryan McShane 12:13
Congress 

Rich Bennett 12:13
and cons. 

Ryan McShane 12:13
should look at the pros and cons. And I thought, well, let's give it a try. So I interviewed it both places. Looking at this had offers on the table from those places. And it really came down to the fact that I was going to be reporting to this gentleman who I was very impressed by. 

Rich Bennett 12:29
Okay. 

Ryan McShane 12:30
And that's where leadership comes in. 

Greg Derwart 12:32
There you go. 

Ryan McShane 12:33
Yeah. And so. 

Greg Derwart 12:35
This is around the time when you and I met. 

Ryan McShane 12:36
That's exactly right. 

Greg Derwart 12:37
Yeah, 

Ryan McShane 12:38
That's 

Greg Derwart 12:38
that's exactly. 

Ryan McShane 12:38
exactly. 

Greg Derwart 12:38
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 12:39
It was ever. 

Rich Bennett 12:39
You were that person 

Greg Derwart 12:41
No, no, no. Not in. 

Ryan McShane 12:43
In that case. But it was evident 

Rich Bennett 12:44
Mm hmm. 

Ryan McShane 12:45
to me that 

Rich Bennett 12:45
Right. 

Ryan McShane 12:47
he wanted to see me thrive and grow and he was going to do anything in his power to make that happen, because ultimately he grew as a result of that. And that's what I experienced very early on. Another lesson of that is when I was brought into that organization, he said, Ryan, you know, I really want to know your vision as to what you think you want to do in this role. And I go off on this long diatribe of saying, Yeah, we could do this, we could do that. And he said, Ryan, you know, I love what you're saying, but I have no clue what you're saying. So he said. 

Rich Bennett 13:20
Oh, wow. 

Ryan McShane 13:21
He said, Basically, you've given me a lot of vernacular and jargon around human resources, and I don't get it. Now, this guy came from an accounting background. In a very financial based background. I learned quickly that I need to frame what I'm saying from a dollars and cents bottom line standpoint. 

Greg Derwart 13:43
Metrics. 

Ryan McShane 13:43
From a metal. And 

Rich Bennett 13:45
Yet. 

Ryan McShane 13:45
then 

Rich Bennett 13:45
What 

Ryan McShane 13:45
he 

Rich Bennett 13:45
I. 

Ryan McShane 13:46
would get what I'm saying because I'm talking about engagement and empowerment and all this kind of stuff. And he's like, Yeah, yeah. 

Bottom line me, man. That affect the books. 

Greg Derwart 13:58
Where is that? On the panels, David. 

Ryan McShane 14:03
So I learned pretty and once again learned another you know adaptation there can. 

Rich Bennett 14:08
Consider 

Ryan McShane 14:09
Audience. 

Rich Bennett 14:09
the deliver. 

Ryan McShane 14:09
How does he need to hear what I need to deliver? And ultimately, we kind of figure that out one to another. And he and I, we're very close as a result of that. And I was able to make him look really good, expand. 

Rich Bennett 14:21
Right. 

Ryan McShane 14:22
Agency and capabilities and terms of service and the internal relations and things of that nature and. Consequently, he let me run with a number of different initiatives. I ended up creating an internal kind of corporate university within the organization. I called the OCLC the continuous learning Committee. It was a cross-section of all departments 

Rich Bennett 14:44
Divisions and hierarchies across 

Ryan McShane 14:45
across. 

Rich Bennett 14:46
the. 

Ryan McShane 14:46
Zation. We're represented in this team. 

Rich Bennett 14:49
The. 

Ryan McShane 14:49
That would put on monthly and quarterly. 

Rich Bennett 14:52
Programs. 

Ryan McShane 14:53
Small 

Rich Bennett 14:53
Small. 

Ryan McShane 14:54
monthly 

Rich Bennett 14:54
Monthly. 

Ryan McShane 14:54
programs. Big programs. 

Rich Bennett 14:56
There. 

Ryan McShane 14:57
And basically it was a gap filler for all the learning approaches that we needed to take because in long term care and this was still a senior. 

Rich Bennett 15:06
Based, 

Ryan McShane 15:06
Services agency 

Rich Bennett 15:08
right? 

Ryan McShane 15:09
in the government. And so there were a lot of gaps in terms of what their training resources were available. 

Rich Bennett 15:17
To them. 

Ryan McShane 15:17
They had some generalized things, but not specific enough that it really spoke to the core work that. 

Rich Bennett 15:23
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 15:24
These folks encountered. So I thought, hey, you know, I'd like to see if we can fill those gaps, if at all possible. You 

Rich Bennett 15:31
Invest 

Ryan McShane 15:31
invest in 

Rich Bennett 15:31
in 

Ryan McShane 15:31
your 

Rich Bennett 15:31
your. 

Ryan McShane 15:31
people. The. 

Rich Bennett 15:32
Though, ultimately 

Ryan McShane 15:33
Return 

Rich Bennett 15:33
returned. 

Ryan McShane 15:33
that from a trust factor standpoint. 

Greg Derwart 15:36
How would you define his leadership style? 

Ryan McShane 15:41
His theory was if people are so busy, they don't have time to complain, which was kind of an interesting approach. Now, again, this is someone who was in the public sector. 

Rich Bennett 15:52
Right. 

Ryan McShane 15:53
And he was used to people fall asleep at their desk and doing things like that. And so there was that reputation of people just phoning it in, sitting back, doing as little as possible and still collecting a paycheck. This guy. He walked fast, He talked fast. He did everything fast. He was a hard charger. And you had to kind of keep up with him. And I was excited by that opportunity. And I'd love to be able to run to keep up with him and. 

Greg Derwart 16:22
And he also gave you a long runway is what you're 

Ryan McShane 16:24
He sure did. He gave me a great deal of autonomy. 

Greg Derwart 16:27
here. 

Ryan McShane 16:28
Ultimately, when I came in to that 

Rich Bennett 16:29
That role. 

Ryan McShane 16:30
role as the H.R. director, the person who assumed that prior role was a clerk. 

Rich Bennett 16:36
Huh? 

Ryan McShane 16:37
They were an account clerk that came into and was promoted into a human 

Rich Bennett 16:44
Human 

Ryan McShane 16:45
resources. 

Rich Bennett 16:45
resources. 

Ryan McShane 16:46
So they didn't have the Natural Foundation in human resource education. 

Rich Bennett 16:50
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 16:50
That I did. And consequently there was a lot of there was great processing and great systems around processing personnel transaction. 

Rich Bennett 16:59
His actions. 

Ryan McShane 17:00
But that's largely an administrative function. I wanted to elevate that position to be a true human resources. 

Rich Bennett 17:08
Right. 

Ryan McShane 17:09
Give me give you an example of this rich and great. So my very first day on the job, I'm hired into this role working for this guy. And I said, Hey, can I have a copy of my job description? I just want to make sure I'm doing everything that you need me to do. And he said, Ryan, funny you should ask that question. We don't have job descriptions. 

Rich Bennett 17:29
What? 

Ryan McShane 17:30
That's what I said. I'm sorry. That was my bad ear. Can you say it again? 

Greg Derwart 17:35
So I guess that's first on your list, too, right? 

Ryan McShane 17:37
Percent did. 

Rich Bennett 17:40
said to the general. 

Ryan McShane 17:40
Gentlemen. I said, Arnold. Now, Arnold. Apple is his name. You may know Arnold. I said, Arnold. How is it that you have 120 employees in this organization and you just told me you don't have job descriptions? How do you manage their performance? And he said, All right. And funny you should ask that question. 

Greg Derwart 18:00
We don't. 

Ryan McShane 18:02
He pulled out a single sheet of paper. It was the same on the front side that it was on the backside. The only difference on that one sheet of paper, the front side said employee copy. The backside said Supervisor copy. And it was seven different characteristics that you would rate from unsuccessful to exceeds expectations. And that was their performance management tool and it was one of those face palm moments. I said, Oh my, I know I've got my work cut out for me. And he said, That's why we brought you in here, Ryan, because we think that you can effectuate the kind of infrastructure change that has been necessary for this position for a long time. 

Greg Derwart 18:43
Because I'm going to rate you on exceeds expectations. You need to first know what those expectations are. 

Ryan McShane 18:49
Well, that would be helpful. Have a foundational 

Greg Derwart 18:51
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 18:52
document, like a job description. How do you do that? 

Rich Bennett 18:55
Yeah, 

Ryan McShane 18:55
So that's what baffled me. And I said, 

Rich Bennett 18:57
I had. 

Ryan McShane 18:58
There's got to be something out there. 

Rich Bennett 18:59
I'll never forget when you mentioned that there was a company that I worked for and the owner is a small company, but the owner asked each one of us. To write down what our job description is, because when we he hired us, he didn't have one. He wanted us to write it down for him. And he wanted everybody to write a mission statement for the business. 

Greg Derwart 19:20
Wow. 

Rich Bennett 19:21
Yes. 

Ryan McShane 19:23
That's an inclusive approach. I appreciate it because he's asking you what you think. And, you know, I think that's important to do. Why do we hire the best and brightest 

Rich Bennett 19:33
Right. 

Ryan McShane 19:33
and then tell them what to do? Let's get the people closest to the work, tell us what they think, and then we can refine it from there and make sure everybody is on the same page. 

Rich Bennett 19:42
Right. I never thought about it that way. My thought was, why are we getting rid of me or something? Why do you love me? Right? You 

Ryan McShane 19:51
Well, it's funny you say 

Rich Bennett 19:52
should. 

Ryan McShane 19:52
that, because that was the biggest pushback that I encountered. And it wasn't from the frontline staff. 

Rich Bennett 19:57
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 19:58
It was the department heads that gave me the most resistance. And here I am. 

Rich Bennett 20:03
What I'm trying. 

Ryan McShane 20:03
Trying to help you give you a tool to help your. 

Rich Bennett 20:07
Your performance of 

Ryan McShane 20:07
Of 

Rich Bennett 20:07
your. 

Ryan McShane 20:07
your employees. I don't understand why I'm getting pushback and. 

Rich Bennett 20:12
Finally someone. 

Ryan McShane 20:13
Got upset and said, Ryan, you don't get it. If I write down everything that I do, I'm easily replaceable. And I said, You know what? It never even occurred to me that that would be someone's. 

Greg Derwart 20:25
Concern. 

Rich Bennett 20:26
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 20:26
Sir. 

Rich Bennett 20:26
Yeah, that's exac. 

Ryan McShane 20:27
Exactly right. Fear of the unknown. 

Rich Bennett 20:29
Mm. 

Ryan McShane 20:30
And so I said, okay, now that I have. 

Rich Bennett 20:32
That understanding. 

Ryan McShane 20:33
Allow me to please allay your concerns. We have no designs to get rid of you. We only want to garner this information knowing that you're never going to be in this position forever. 

Rich Bennett 20:44
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 20:44
You know, and no one else will be in these position. And ultimately we want to give you the support and the resources that we know you need to be successful. And that includes articulation 

Rich Bennett 20:56
Mm. 

Ryan McShane 20:56
of the major duties and roles that everyone performs in their functions. And I also saw this from a recruiting standpoint because I did all the recruiting for the organization. How do you recruit someone when you don't have a job description to articulate their qualifications and their major duties? How do you vet them? You know, there are so many slippery slope kind of things that we had to deal with by not having foundational documents within the organization. Rich What they had were called class specifications. Now, class specification is very different from a job description. 

Rich Bennett 21:26
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 21:27
In that it is primarily created for the purposes of pay, banding and compensation. So if I'm going to hand it to you and say, Here's your class specification, go to work. You know, know better than anybody else how to perform that job because it's too generic in general in nature. And. 

Rich Bennett 21:45
Try. People sleep at their desk. 

Ryan McShane 21:47
Exactly. They're trying to read their client's best. 

Rich Bennett 21:53
Wow. 

Ryan McShane 21:53
So I created functional job descriptions across all 120 positions in the organization. And I was very adamant about the fact that what we need to do is create a knowledge management system. And the idea behind knowledge management is you collect knowledge. You essentially warehouse that knowledge for purposes of more efficient dissemination of that same knowledge. It was first coined and enacted in the sales industry. You know, you have people that are geographically dispersed selling different products. The manufacture changes the specification. We've got to get that specification change out to those sales professionals as quickly as possible so that they can communicate that. 

Rich Bennett 22:35
Today, 

Ryan McShane 22:35
That's 

Rich Bennett 22:35
you. 

Ryan McShane 22:36
exactly right. So that concept of knowledge management was first leveraged from that notion of how do we get. 

Greg Derwart 22:43
That information. 

Ryan McShane 22:43
Shout out to our our people that need it as quickly as. 

Rich Bennett 22:46
Right. 

Ryan McShane 22:47
So my thinking was, Hey, I want to make sure that every employee within this organization knows how to level up, how to get promoted. Because if you see that there's an eye on the prize, there's an engagement factor there. 

Rich Bennett 23:01
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 23:02
And I think that's a big part of the issue that we face today. People see their careers as jobs, not as careers. And it's real easy to step away from a job, isn't it? 

Greg Derwart 23:11
This ties into a question I have. So when you first started out in this role. Did you have anybody reporting to you? 

Ryan McShane 23:19
Not officially. Tangent It was a dotted line. I was told it was a dotted line. 

Greg Derwart 23:24
But but the reason why I asked that question is while you were starting all of these initiatives, your boss was empowering you to be a leader yourself. 

Ryan McShane 23:35
Yeah, exactly right. 

Greg Derwart 23:37
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 23:37
That's exactly right. And consequently, my reputation for really wanting to serve the individual was well-received, you know, because I initially I faced the fact that there were some internal candidates that didn't get the job that I got. 

Rich Bennett 23:54
Right. 

Ryan McShane 23:54
And so I got the side eye from a few people for, you know, a few weeks, if not, you know, a few months until I proved myself that I 

Greg Derwart 24:03
Mm 

Ryan McShane 24:03
was there 

Greg Derwart 24:03
hmm. 

Ryan McShane 24:03
for them. It wasn't about Ryan. Never has been. It's only about them. And how can I serve and deliver based on their needs. 

Rich Bennett 24:12
L.A. DEC has. 

Greg Derwart 24:13
And that takes time, too, to earn people's trust. 

Ryan McShane 24:16
100%. 

Greg Derwart 24:17
Yeah. You can't you can't create that on day one. 

Ryan McShane 24:20
No, it takes a long time to build it and very quickly to do it. And that's something that I think we have a real trust factor in our corporate relations. And that's where there's this us against them mentality that all too often exists between labor and management. You know, management protects their own, so to speak, and we're always going to trust the manager over the employee 

Rich Bennett 24:40
Whether 

Ryan McShane 24:41
the 

Rich Bennett 24:41
the 

Ryan McShane 24:41
employees, 

Rich Bennett 24:41
employee is 

Ryan McShane 24:41
right 

Rich Bennett 24:41
right or 

Ryan McShane 24:42
or 

Rich Bennett 24:42
wrong. 

Ryan McShane 24:42
wrong. And that kind of thinking is all too divisive and it creates the cultural issues that we have in work environments now that ultimately produce the outcomes of disengagement and low morale. And then you've got people going, what is this quiet quitting? People are just phoning it in and, well, have you created the environment that has reduced their morale to the point that that's all they can do is just survive? And tell me if that's not an indicator of what most people are experiencing in the work environment. Survival. 

Greg Derwart 25:12
Mm hmm. 

Ryan McShane 25:13
You know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. What's survival? The lowest rung in that pyramid. 

Greg Derwart 25:19
Mm hmm. 

Ryan McShane 25:20
And I see that a lot of people are just just surviving, getting by. 

Greg Derwart 25:24
Sure. Sure. 

Rich Bennett 25:26
One of the things I'll never forget at one company when I was in the I.T. field, the one company that I worked for, they had awesome leaders, but they were very family focused, too. They they wanted to know about you and your family. And they cared about the employees. 

Ryan McShane 25:40
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 25:41
And that's 

Ryan McShane 25:42
Refreshing. 

Rich Bennett 25:42
a. Yeah. And that's something I've always believed. If you know, I'm fortunate, I. Company merge with another one? 

Ryan McShane 25:49
I do. 

Rich Bennett 25:49
Well, you know how mergers work. Yeah. So they're no longer around. Oh. But I think that's what hurts companies when they when they don't care about their employees. You know, later on down the road, they're wondering why their doors are closed. 

Ryan McShane 26:03
Hundred percent. 

Rich Bennett 26:04
Because you're not taking care of. 

Ryan McShane 26:05
And there's a historical component to this, too. Rich and Greg, you know, there's something called the psychological contract. And the psychological contract used to be alive and well. If I continue to show up and do a good job, I'm going to continue to be employed. Well, right around the late eighties, early nineties, we started to see that being dashed with all kinds of rightsizing, downsizing and mergers and acquisitions. And so consequently, with those kind of environments where people were losing their job through no fault of their own, there became a very clear, you know, idea of, I'm not loyal to you, I'm loyal to my career. So that notion of blind loyalty to one employer was dashed. The psychological contract was completely smashed and people started to look out for themselves. 

Rich Bennett 26:50
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 26:51
And I think it's that self, you know, focus that gets us away from what we really need to be doing as a society, as a community, as an organization. And so it created the divide that we. 

Rich Bennett 27:04
Experience today 

Ryan McShane 27:05
Today. It created the trust factor that we 

Rich Bennett 27:07
we expect. 

Ryan McShane 27:07
experience today. 

Rich Bennett 27:08
You saw that with the it feel in the it feel when when I got into it it was still you know, I mean, people were were getting into the field, but when you went to interview, it wasn't the fact that the company was interviewing you. You were interviewing the company. 

Ryan McShane 27:26
Yeah. 

Greg Derwart 27:26
Sure. 

Rich Bennett 27:27
Yeah. I mean, you I don't, you know, see that today, but that's the way it was. Because, I mean, back then too, I don't know what they make now since I got out of the field, but somebody that had their like a microsoft service was a microsoft service engineer, I think it was, who was making six digits. 

Ryan McShane 27:46
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. 

Rich Bennett 27:48
Then the field got oversaturate saturated. Then the companies started interviewing, etc. Of course, went down. But Oh, yeah, it's it's amazing. Just from the since the eighties and nineties, how much has everything has changed? 

Ryan McShane 28:04
Yeah, it's true enough, It's true enough. And it's created a lot of the climate and cultural issues that we're facing today. And speaking of which, what else has changed since those eighties and nineties? We have an entire entirely different makeup of our workforce. So. 

Greg Derwart 28:20
Five generations. 

Ryan McShane 28:22
Five generations. 

Rich Bennett 28:23
Oh, yeah. 

Ryan McShane 28:24
We have 

Rich Bennett 28:24
Mm 

Ryan McShane 28:25
seniors slash veterans, we have baby boomers, we have Gen X, That's my generation. We have millennials. And then now we have Gen Z that are entering the workforce. Well, according to my studies and the material that I used to do a lot of training on the multigenerational workforce, which still is a great deal of demand for I've been doing it for over 15 years. The content hasn't changed. Only the audiences have changed. I used to be speaking to a roomful of boomers going, Yeah, yeah, I know millennials, but you better embrace them. And now I'm speaking to a roomful of millennials going, Yeah, yeah, I know baby boomers, but you better, you know, make sure that you garner some of the wisdom of their youth, of their experience. That's exactly right. 

Greg Derwart 29:10
Well, 

Ryan McShane 29:10
Well, here's 

Greg Derwart 29:10
here's. 

Ryan McShane 29:11
an astounding statistic that you may or may not know. 75% of our workforce, demographic population are millennials today. 

Greg Derwart 29:19
75%. 

Ryan McShane 29:20
75%. 

Greg Derwart 29:22
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 29:22
As of 2025, check your watch. 

Greg Derwart 29:24
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 29:25
75% of millennials are the makeup of our workforce. So let me ask you. 

Rich Bennett 29:32
Huh? 

Ryan McShane 29:33
Was old, Do you think old school leadership notion of command and control? Do what I tell you because I'm your boss kid. Resonates with the millennial generation. 

Rich Bennett 29:42
No. 

Ryan McShane 29:43
Now, I 

Greg Derwart 29:43
It 

Ryan McShane 29:44
might 

Greg Derwart 29:44
up. 

Ryan McShane 29:44
argue it never resonated with anyone but the boomers and seniors. It was all they knew and they responded to it and did did adequately well in responding to it. That's exactly right. That's just the way it is, kid. And you better lump it or leave it. And and now we have a very different notion of that with the younger workforce, the millennials and the Gen Zs use. You approach them with this command or control, do what I tell you. They're going 

Rich Bennett 30:12
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 30:12
to say, Oh, if it's that way, I'm out of here. And we already have a lot of issues in terms of retention of that talent anyway. 

Greg Derwart 30:20
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 30:21
They'll come into an environment, look around for two weeks and go, okay, it's not for me. I'm out of here. And I would never imagine doing something like that in my career early on. But and that's where they say, Oh, well, there's no loyalty, where there's no one does. Well, that's a mutual relationship 

Rich Bennett 30:37
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 30:37
that has to exist between the employer and the employee. And those kind of things need to be sussed out. Well, I think all. 

Rich Bennett 30:43
All of it started. 

Ryan McShane 30:43
Stems from. What 

Rich Bennett 30:45
What kind 

Ryan McShane 30:45
kind of 

Rich Bennett 30:45
of 

Ryan McShane 30:45
leadership 

Rich Bennett 30:45
leadership do 

Ryan McShane 30:46
do 

Rich Bennett 30:46
you. 

Ryan McShane 30:46
you have in that organization? Because they ultimately call the tune of the culture. And if we have leaders that still operate from that authoritarian command and control, do what I tell you, because I'm your boss kid, they're not going to have a workforce culture that's going to be sustainable for very long. 

Greg Derwart 31:01
When we had the the greatest generation and the boomers with that authoritarian mentality. What happened from a leadership standpoint? When the millennials came along. Like obviously the millennials have this stereotype of like being coddled. And you know that 

Rich Bennett 31:19
In. 

Greg Derwart 31:19
as they were being raised by the boomers. But how did that change from a leadership standpoint? It was was it a matter of just the Xers in the Millennials coming into leadership positions and just evolving from from a leadership perspective? 

Ryan McShane 31:34
To a certain extent. I think that's a big part of it, Greg, because we start to see now the leaders of many of these organizations are Gen Xers and millennials. 

Rich Bennett 31:42
Yeah, 

Ryan McShane 31:43
And, you know, I call the Gen Xers the jaded generation, because they came up during the eighties and nineties and saw mom and dad getting right sized, downsized in all kinds of size. 

Rich Bennett 31:53
that's 

Ryan McShane 31:53
And 

Rich Bennett 31:53
true. 

Ryan McShane 31:53
and so they consequently said this blind loyalty thing to an employer. 

Rich Bennett 31:57
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 31:58
It's hogwash. I'm you know, I'll be loyal to myself, my career, my teammates. But that's about it. And so because of that experience that they had, they now look at leadership from a very different notion. And I think that ultimately brought us to where we are. I also think that other social dynamics, other 

major significant evidence of corruption at leadership levels, you know, we hear about the Enrons and the different. You know, 

Greg Derwart 32:27
Anderson. 

Ryan McShane 32:27
Arthur Andersen and things of that nature. These were these were people. That were serving themselves. These were leaders that only had their leadership interests in mind. Nothing in regard to their employees and the community and humanity and society at large. So, you know, I think we woke up to that. My generation, Gen Xers were very clearly exposed to that. And I think it's only continued to be exposed to that kind of level of corruption where leaders have been self-interested. And that's why I'm so passionate about the concept of servant leadership, because servant leadership is all about the followers giving them the resources they need to be successful. And how we go about that is very different one to another. 

Rich Bennett 33:12
Go ahead. 

Greg Derwart 33:13
I was going to say, when you do that, then then the leader succeeds as well. 

Rich Bennett 33:17
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 33:17
And that's what I was kind of alluding to with my role at Baltimore County is I had a leader who is all about giving me what I needed to be successful, ultimately making him shine 

Rich Bennett 33:30
I'm 

Ryan McShane 33:30
like 

Rich Bennett 33:30
like 

Ryan McShane 33:30
a 

Rich Bennett 33:30
a 

Ryan McShane 33:30
star, 

Rich Bennett 33:30
star. 

Greg Derwart 33:31
Absolutely. 

Ryan McShane 33:31
because he went to the county executive every other week and said, Look what we're doing. 

Rich Bennett 33:35
Right. 

Ryan McShane 33:36
Look at this. Look how we've expanded. Look. 

Rich Bennett 33:38
Now we have. 

Ryan McShane 33:39
started to be able to recruit where it was taken as six months to fill a position. Ryan's got us down to three weeks. 

Greg Derwart 33:46
Yep. Yep, 

Ryan McShane 33:47
Those kind of things. It was like, 

Greg Derwart 33:49
yep. 

Ryan McShane 33:49
Wow, this guy's. 

Rich Bennett 33:50
And he the good thing is, too, he mentioned it was because of you. 

Greg Derwart 33:54
He gave you credit. 

Rich Bennett 33:55
Well. 

Ryan McShane 33:56
I can only imagine. He. He. 

Rich Bennett 33:58
I would think so. 

Ryan McShane 33:59
Took some of that credit, but. 

Greg Derwart 34:01
Well, he was smart enough to keep you around. 

Ryan McShane 34:03
He was. 

Rich Bennett 34:04
How many leader and I don't even want to say they were leaders, but how many people would take the credit and not even mention anybody else that helped do. 

Greg Derwart 34:11
New. 

Ryan McShane 34:12
Well, I think anybody knew darn well that he wasn't doing the things 

Rich Bennett 34:15
Right. 

Ryan McShane 34:15
that were. 

Greg Derwart 34:16
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 34:17
Yeah. I'm not all about specific. 

Ryan McShane 34:18
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 34:19
There are others out there that. 

Ryan McShane 34:21
True enough. 

Rich Bennett 34:22
You even see that in the nonprofit 

Ryan McShane 34:24
It's 

Rich Bennett 34:24
especially? especially? 

Ryan McShane 34:25
all too 

Rich Bennett 34:25
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 34:25
common, unfortunately, 

Rich Bennett 34:26
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 34:26
here. People taking credit for things that they had nothing to do. 

Rich Bennett 34:29
One of the things that's one of the things that scares me is now So Josias is what? 

Greg Derwart 34:34
Gen Z is the same as saying the Millennials. So. 

Ryan McShane 34:38
Anyone born after 2000. Or Gen Z's. So. So 2000. 

Greg Derwart 34:43
Oh, yeah. 

Ryan McShane 34:44
2000 to 2021 or present date really are Gen Z's? 

Rich Bennett 34:49
All right. So they're they're the ones that I'm nervous about right now. I don't want to say I'm nervous. I don't know if they're getting the proper leadership, because 

Ryan McShane 34:57
No, 

Rich Bennett 34:57
one of 

Ryan McShane 34:57
they're 

Rich Bennett 34:57
the 

Ryan McShane 34:57
not. 

Rich Bennett 34:58
one of the things you always hear about. You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

I want to take a moment to talk about something really exciting. See, we love partnering with reputable businesses, companies that are making a difference, providing top notch services and building trust in their communities. And if that sounds like you, I want to invite you to become a sponsor sponsoring the podcast. And Harvard Kennedy Living isn't just about advertising. It's about real connections. You'll get premium exposure across our podcast website sites and social media, putting your brain in front of an engaged, loyal audience. And here's the best part. Right now we have limited sponsorship spots available for the year. And if you pay annually, you'll get 

25% off. You heard me right. 25% of. And you're going to love this even more. That rate is locked in for the lifetime of your sponsorship. So even if those levels go up five, ten years from now, you're paying what you pay now. That's it. So if you're looking for a strategic way to grow your business and reach the right people, let's talk. Email me at Rich Bennett at Dan Ben dot com. That's D. A and B and Ecom. And let's make 2025 an unforgettable year for your brand and into the future. Number one, they don't stay at the job long. And the main. It is from what I've been hearing, because the owner or the manager or whatever doesn't know what they're doing. Well, wait a minute. How can you say they don't know what they're doing when, number one, you're. 

Greg Derwart 36:52
You have no experience yourself? Yes. 

Rich Bennett 36:54
Yes, exactly. I mean, and I think a lot of these a lot of the Gen Z ers are expecting to basically be put in a leadership 

Ryan McShane 37:03
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 37:03
role right away. Yeah. Which is. 

Greg Derwart 37:06
Well that's that's the participation trophy mentality that. 

Rich Bennett 37:08
Yes. Thank you. Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 37:10
Something to be said for that, Greg. And I saw that shift. So when i was the director of h.r. For the baltimore county department of aging, i conducted all of their new hire orientations. 

Rich Bennett 37:23
Okay. 

Ryan McShane 37:23
And so I probably did, you know, once a month, so 12 a year for 12 years that I was there. So 144, you know, classes of new hire orientations that I did. And over that period of time, I started to see a changing population come through. And it would be nothing for a young new hire to come in and say, I'd like an appointment with the director on their very first day to tell them what I want out of my career. 

I. 

Rich Bennett 37:53
I had a guy on from Columbia, Columbia, Maryland, of course, and I asked him about hiring employees. He said people come in in their pajamas for interviews. One person brought their mother. 

Ryan McShane 38:11
I was just going to mention. So that's 

Greg Derwart 38:13
Uh huh. 

Ryan McShane 38:14
a phenomenon called a helicopter parent. And it started in the millennial generation. These parents that do income earner parents who felt so guilty about the fact that they were never around for their son or daughter, shower 

Rich Bennett 38:27
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 38:27
them with all this over attention such that it disempowers them. They can't 

Rich Bennett 38:34
yeah. 

Ryan McShane 38:34
do for themselves, you know, type of thing. Where I you know, I did all the recruiting, you know, for the organization. So you conduct these interviews and you'd have mom or dad waiting out in the hallway for them and like, oh, no, no, no, that's a mom. You wait out there, I'm not interviewing you. I'm interviewing your son or daughter. And I couldn't believe that I had to have those conversations. 

Rich Bennett 38:55
It said how many of them even brought resumes? 

Ryan McShane 38:58
Yeah. Very few. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 38:59
Yeah, 

Ryan McShane 38:59
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 39:00
it's just 

it it worries me that younger generation know. Or you'll see, maybe I'm too old school. But one of the things that we I was always told. Number one, you never leave a job 

Ryan McShane 39:16
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 39:16
unless you've got something else lined up. Number two, you are 

Greg Derwart 39:20
That's. 

Rich Bennett 39:20
in a state that has changed big time. You want to stay in the job for a while to build up your resume. That's change. 

Ryan McShane 39:27
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 39:28
And 

Ryan McShane 39:28
Story. 

Rich Bennett 39:28
I think one of the things that has hurt and I think this started during COVID or right after COVID is. 

Ryan McShane 39:33
Is. 

Rich Bennett 39:34
The was it? Same day pay. 

Ryan McShane 39:36
Yes. Yes. 

Greg Derwart 39:37
Really? 

Rich Bennett 39:38
Oh, you never heard of that? 

Greg Derwart 39:39
No. 

Rich Bennett 39:40
Oh, yeah. Where you can go? You can. If I start at this company today, I get paid every that. Each day that I work. 

Ryan McShane 39:49
Yeah, that's a nightmare. 

Rich Bennett 39:50
Here. 

Greg Derwart 39:50
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 39:51
Because you don't typically get them to come back the next day. 

Rich Bennett 39:53
Right. 

Ryan McShane 39:54
That's what, you know, ultimately 

Greg Derwart 39:55
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 39:56
comes down to, you know, there's a number of issues with that. I mean, the things that I've seen that have changed over a period of time in terms of, you know, jobs, job search, the career process. You know, it used to be if you had more than two or three positions on your resume, what are you, a job hopper? 

Rich Bennett 40:14
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 40:15
And now if you don't have at least three or four. What is wrong with you? Why have you stayed with this company for so long? That's exactly right. There must be something 

Rich Bennett 40:23
Something 

Ryan McShane 40:23
wrong 

Rich Bennett 40:23
wrong? 

Ryan McShane 40:23
with you and. 

Greg Derwart 40:25
So the so the companies that are doing it right doing it well, that it's it's centered around employee engagement. You mentioned that. So talk to me about like how successful companies keep team members engaged. 

Ryan McShane 40:42
That's a great question. And I think once again, I have to begin by saying it all starts with leadership. The leaders 

Rich Bennett 40:48
It to do. 

Ryan McShane 40:48
call the tunes and it's so much of it is permission based. You know, you go into one environment, you're permitted to do these things. You go into another environment, you're permitted to do these things. You know, I think the comparison I use as a library, you know, your library behavior versus stadium behavior is very different for one another. Okay. So that's the culture. The culture of a library versus a stadium is very different. Well, the same is true in organizations where the culture under this leader may be one thing. The culture under that leader is another thing. So the caller, the leader sets the tone of the organization. But you bring up a topic that is near and dear to my heart as an h.r. Professional and we talk about it all the time. Is engagement, that extra discretionary energy that you apply to your role because you see the importance and the value in it. And there obviously there's something in it for you to do those things, whether it's learning, whether it's growth, whether it's promotion, whether it's compensation. But ultimately, it comes from this notion of I buy into the purpose of mission and vision of the organization, and I want to advance those kinds of things. And so it goes back to something I said a little while ago, Greg, is you don't hire the best. People. And then. 

Rich Bennett 41:58
And tell them what to do. Right. 

Ryan McShane 41:59
You've got to involve them and engage them and ask them what they think. And ultimately, that's what the gentleman in Baltimore County did. He said, Ryan, you've got all this private industry experience, public industry experience. You know what you're doing. I want to hear from you. What 

Greg Derwart 42:12
What 

Ryan McShane 42:12
you. 

Greg Derwart 42:12
do you think? 

Ryan McShane 42:13
We should do. And then convince me that that's what we should. 

Rich Bennett 42:17
Should do from that start. 

Ryan McShane 42:18
And so I had 

Rich Bennett 42:19
Add 

Ryan McShane 42:19
that. 

Rich Bennett 42:19
that that. 

Ryan McShane 42:20
To you to do it. The organizations that are thriving today do just. 

Rich Bennett 42:24
Just that. 

Ryan McShane 42:25
They ask their employees what they think, and most importantly, they tend to the response. One of the worst things that you can do, and it wipes out engagement. And I've seen it over and over and 

Rich Bennett 42:38
Toure 

Ryan McShane 42:38
over. 

Rich Bennett 42:38
is famous for this, 

Ryan McShane 42:39
We're going to do an employee engagement survey. We're going to ask you all this information. Meanwhile, you might be scared to even reply and respond to it because you don't have any trust that it's not going to be held against you 

Rich Bennett 42:52
right? 

Ryan McShane 42:52
at some point in time. So you have to go through iterations of that trust factor. But ultimately, we spend so much time getting this survey data done and then it sits on a shelf and no one speaks about it. That's one of the worst things that you can do, is ask people what they think and then not tend to the worst. 

Greg Derwart 43:08
Engage him even more. 

Ryan McShane 43:10
It does disengage him more. So as a matter of fact, I'm a school board member. I joined the school board in Pennsylvania at my local where I went to school, as a matter of fact. My sons both went to that high school, and during the COVID era, I thought, I need to step up and do something. I'm hearing things that are concerning. So I need to come into this space and see what I can do and offer. And, 

Greg Derwart 43:36
For you. 

Ryan McShane 43:36
you know, that's something that we're talking about right now. Our school board initiated a climate slash engagement survey and we're having conversations about how we're going to operationalize that data. We have some issues here and we've got some information. None of us are perfect. I think we've got an outstanding school, an outstanding school district, and an outstanding superintendent. I'll be the first to tell you that. But none of us have been struck perfect. There's always opportunities to improve. And we're also dealing with some things that after a while you get lulled into condition thinking. And unfortunately, you know, it's like, why are we still doing this? Well, because Tom told us we need to do this. Well, Tom hasn't worked here for ten years and we're. Times away. You know, those 

Rich Bennett 44:15
Things 

Ryan McShane 44:15
kind. 

Rich Bennett 44:16
change. 

Ryan McShane 44:16
Yeah, that's exactly right. So it's those kind of things that we're trying to promote and get involved in. 

Greg Derwart 44:22
Good. Good. You know, there's there's there's obstacles in bureaucracies in any line of work, whether it's government, nonprofit, private sector. It's the private sector that. Seems to have more of a sense of urgency to 

Ryan McShane 44:38
Yeah. 

Greg Derwart 44:38
paying attention to eliminating roadblocks. And, you know, because it's your survival, you know, it's 

Ryan McShane 44:44
It's a competition factor 

Greg Derwart 44:46
right. 

Ryan McShane 44:46
that the public sector doesn't necessarily have. 

Greg Derwart 44:48
Exactly. 

Ryan McShane 44:48
Yeah. 

Greg Derwart 44:48
So for for for the public sector, how do you motivate the leaders in a in a in a public sector environment to see the need for efficiencies and improvement? 

Ryan McShane 45:02
You know, whether it's a public sector or a private private sector, there's still budgets that need to be managed. 

Rich Bennett 45:07
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 45:07
And most directors get their stripes when they manage a budget real well and can still effectuate positive services and even grow those services. And I know that was a part of my experience with the director. 

Rich Bennett 45:20
Director of Aging. 

Ryan McShane 45:21
He was all the time wanting to come up with new, creative, different ways to serve more people in the community at a reduced cost. And I'm like, Man, that's great. That's good stuff. That should be everybody. 

Greg Derwart 45:31
Performance metrics. 

Ryan McShane 45:32
That's a performance metrics. It's also an efficiency model. And so if we can, you know, bolster those kinds of things, that's going to create a competitive advantage whether we have competition or not. That director is going to he's always competing. We're always competing in 

Greg Derwart 45:49
Rolling. 

Ryan McShane 45:49
the work environment for that role and for upward lever level mobility. So you've demonstrated your value, your return on invested. And of course, as an accounting professional, that's what it's all about, right? That return we have. 

Rich Bennett 46:02
You've got to have that aura. 

Ryan McShane 46:03
Got to have that ROI. Those profits need to exceed the costs. And so that's what I think that while that's still an evident nature of public sector work, I also think its mission and purpose. And that's where I think that we can garner the commitment of the younger generation. The millennials in the Gen Zs are more socially conscious and aware than we ever were at their age. 

Rich Bennett 46:29
Right. 

Ryan McShane 46:30
Due to the advent of the Internet and the access to information that they do from a global standpoint, they know what's. 

Rich Bennett 46:36
Happening. 

Ryan McShane 46:37
And I think consequently they are also aligned to making sure that we do the right things that you know from, you know, in 

Greg Derwart 46:45
We can 

Ryan McShane 46:45
the 

Greg Derwart 46:45
leverage that if we clearly communicate the mission to the organization and 

Ryan McShane 46:49
precise. 

Greg Derwart 46:49
then build buy in around that. 

Ryan McShane 46:50
Precisely, Greg. And it's not just enough to say, here's the mission. Do you buy in and do you believe in it? But we want to make sure that from your individual role standpoint, you see how that individual role contributes to the vision mission of the organization and purpose of the organization. And that was something that I could not experience when I worked for the DOD. It was you know, it was an experience that I visually commented was like Swiss cheese. I was always trying to find the connection to the bigger thing. Why am I doing this? And I asked a lot of why questions. 

Rich Bennett 47:26
Right. 

Ryan McShane 47:27
Which you'll hear with the younger generation asking a lot of why. And let me also caveat there's a certain part of the population if you ask why. It seems like a threat to their authority. 

Greg Derwart 47:39
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 47:39
Yeah. 

Greg Derwart 47:39
Yeah. Well, so. 

Ryan McShane 47:40
They've got to learn real quick that know we genuinely want to understand the bigger picture. And the younger generation is asking the why from that standpoint. 

Rich Bennett 47:49
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 47:49
They want to know. It's not. They're challenging you. They want to know. 

Rich Bennett 47:53
What is the bigger picture and 

Ryan McShane 47:54
How 

Rich Bennett 47:54
how? 

Ryan McShane 47:54
do they fit into it? So the leaders and the organizations that do the best in the public sector or the private sector are those that create the clear identification of the individual role and how that contributes to the purpose, vision and mission of the organization. 

Greg Derwart 48:09
Goes back to Simon Sinek. Start with why? 

Ryan McShane 48:12
Indeed. 

Greg Derwart 48:12
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 48:13
Indeed. 

Greg Derwart 48:13
Okay. 

Ryan McShane 48:13
He has another very good book, Greg, called The Infinite Game. I would 

Greg Derwart 48:18
Okay. 

Ryan McShane 48:18
highly recommend you guys check that out. The infinite game is all about the short term versus long term notion of how we operate as a society. You'll know, obviously, you know, everything's quarter to quarter based on our financials. 

Rich Bennett 48:31
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 48:31
All right. Got to make those numbers. Got to make those numbers. Well, what we do in the short term is very rarely aligned to long term. Let me give you an example that you decide to go on a diet. But that glazed doughnut sitting in front of you right now. Well, you know, short term pleasure is going to exceed that about, you know, long term gain of losing the weight that you want to lose. Okay. So you rarely make the decision in the short term that would benefit the long term. And if we don't have a clear balance in our context of how we make our decisions, is this short term, is this long term what is in our best interest? What's going to help us get closer to our. Polls. Then we are going to constantly cut off our nose to spite our face. And I see that happening organizations all the time. We will cut corners to make the numbers. Meanwhile, we're compromising our integrity, our trust, our, you know, legitimacy. 

Greg Derwart 49:20
On purpose. 

Ryan McShane 49:21
For the long. Yeah, that's exactly right. 

Greg Derwart 49:23
You. 

Ryan McShane 49:23
And so he does a very nice job of eloquently stating what I just said about the long term short term balance that needs to be exhibited in an organization. 

Greg Derwart 49:33
Not the check that I. 

Ryan McShane 49:34
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 49:36
You're no longer at the county now. 

Ryan McShane 49:37
I am not. 

Rich Bennett 49:38
I see you have your own business. 

Ryan McShane 49:40
I do. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 49:41
What's. 

Ryan McShane 49:41
What's 

Rich Bennett 49:41
What's 

Ryan McShane 49:41
your. 

Rich Bennett 49:41
your name? 

Ryan McShane 49:43
H. R evolution. 

Rich Bennett 49:46
I do. Because it could be read two ways. 

Ryan McShane 49:50
100. 

Rich Bennett 49:51
Revolution or revolution. 

Ryan McShane 49:52
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 49:54
You never thought about that. Yeah, 

Greg Derwart 49:56
I. 

Rich Bennett 49:56
I did. 

Ryan McShane 49:58
It's no mistake that I designed it that way. 

Because I became so disenfranchised in what I was seeing around me that I wanted to blow it all up. And start 

Greg Derwart 50:09
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 50:10
a new revolution, 

Greg Derwart 50:10
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 50:11
a human centered revolution around how we operate in a work environment. So in a tongue in cheek, I named the organization h r Evolution because I also think we need to evolve in terms of our approach, and that's happening over a period of time. But are we in evolving in the way that is going to be most conducive to humanity in serving humanity and our growth and peace and well-being and things of that nature that we all identify with? And so I thought, you know what? I can do a better job of this than some people, other people out there. I think there's a niche here. I need to step into this space. And so our evolution has been designed to provide consulting purposes where, you know, small and medium sized businesses may not have the financial resources to have a full time h.r. Person, but they still need that h.r. function. So i'll come in and set up the best practices across the employment lifecycle from recruitment all the way to the exiting process and everything in between. What are best practices that need to be in place? Like job descriptions. Hey. Funny. Funny that. Right. And then the second component, and this is where my real heart and passion is, is leadership development. No surprise as much as we've talked about it, because I think that all organizations, their success is predicated on leadership within the organization. It determines their culture, it 

Rich Bennett 51:34
should be fun. 

Ryan McShane 51:34
determines the relationships, both inside and outside the company. And I'm a firm believer that work does not have to be the drudgery that it's defined to be in the dictionary. 

Rich Bennett 51:45
fun. 

Ryan McShane 51:45
It can be some of the most fulfilling work 

Greg Derwart 51:47
Meaningful. 

Ryan McShane 51:47
that you do in empowering work and think about, you know, the capitalistic model has pulled entire societies out of poverty as a result of its existence. So I'm a believer in that, and I think that's what's most appropriate. I think capitalism, unfortunately, has been distorted to a point that we almost don't recognize it. It's become something more akin to crony capitalism. And that, again, speaks to leadership and how I believe servant leadership will get us back to the fundamental aspects of capitalism, that stakeholders are always a part of the concern. And. 

Greg Derwart 52:22
All stakeholders. 

Ryan McShane 52:24
All stakeholders. And that's the point at hand, Greg. And it goes to a book called Conscious Capitalism. When I discovered this book, Conscious Capitalism, written by Raj Sisodia and John Mackey. John Mackey used to be the former CEO of Whole Foods. Raj Sisodia was his nerdy research partner out at USC, who they collaborated and came together with this idea of conscious capitalism, and it's predicated on four. 

Rich Bennett 52:51
For principles. 

Ryan McShane 52:52
Higher purpose. We all need a higher purpose, a guiding guiding light. Whether that's your vision, mission, what have you stakeholder orientation saying we will do know one thing and benefit a one stakeholder group to the detriment of another stakeholder group can compare 

Rich Bennett 53:09
Yeah, 

Ryan McShane 53:09
and contrast that to, Hey, we're going 

Rich Bennett 53:10
right. 

Ryan McShane 53:10
to give ourselves all these bonuses, but we're going to lay off all these employees, you know? 

Rich Bennett 53:15
Leadership. 

Ryan McShane 53:15
Yeah, not good. Conscious leadership and conscious call. 

Rich Bennett 53:20
Culture. 

Ryan McShane 53:21
And conscious leadership is predicated on a model of servant leadership. I exist as a leader to equip my followers with the resources that they need to be successful. Because ultimately, if you win, we all win. And 

Greg Derwart 53:33
And it's all purpose. It can't 

Ryan McShane 53:35
that's 

Greg Derwart 53:35
be. 

Ryan McShane 53:35
the conscious 

Greg Derwart 53:36
It 

Ryan McShane 53:36
component. 

Greg Derwart 53:36
doesn't happen by accident. 

Ryan McShane 53:38
Hundred percent. It is something that sometimes painstakingly we we come to that through, you know, a lot of discussion, a lot of dialogue, a lot of, you know, what? What do we want to be? How do we want people to see us? And ultimately, that's the question around. 

Rich Bennett 53:52
Our culture. 

Ryan McShane 53:53
Is how do we want to relate to 

Rich Bennett 53:54
To 

Ryan McShane 53:54
one? 

Rich Bennett 53:54
one another. 

Ryan McShane 53:55
And when we have a. 

Rich Bennett 53:56
A conflict. 

Ryan McShane 53:57
How do we win? 

Rich Bennett 53:57
Will deal with it. 

Ryan McShane 53:58
Is it going to be a bloody cage match or are we going to be able to disagree respectfully, to ultimately get to a notion? Where we want to go in the future. And that's the the model of leadership that I espouse and all the trainings that I do. One of my most popular trainings is aptly named Servant Leadership. But in that we talk about change management, we talk about conflict management, we talk about communication, we talk about the trust factor, we talk about powers of persuasion. We talk about the multigenerational workforce and how we need to understand each other better. Instead of labeling each other through these stereotypes. I think we I just when I thought we evolved past that in society, this stupid idea of stereotypes that you can associate 

Rich Bennett 54:42
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 54:43
one concept with a whole group of people, we're going back to that just because we like little bits of information, think that we know the answer and then run with it. We don't take deep dives to truly understand things, and they're in their nature of what they are. And I think that we see that all the times, oh, boomers are like this and you even have an insult. Okay, Boomer, you know those. 

Greg Derwart 55:05
Right? 

Rich Bennett 55:05
Yeah. 

Greg Derwart 55:05
Yeah. Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 55:06
Right. And you see that with the younger generation too. All these Gen Zs, we're going to hell in a handbasket. Kind of. No, you're not. No, you're not. But they have very different notions about how they view work, about how they view communication and how they like to receive feedback. And all of those things are pertinent to the operations of an organization. So if you don't have an understanding of the multigenerational workforce and their preferences based on the external circumstances that shaped the or the demographic, then you're missing them. 

Rich Bennett 55:37
Yeah. 

Greg Derwart 55:38
One of the things that we've done at the bank is we've baked just into our onboarding training. Any meeting is just communicating our core values and at the beginning of every meeting, we spend the first 3 to 5 minutes just open forum share examples of where you've seen our core values in action. And talk about multi-generational. A millennial will see something totally different than a boomer or an Xer. 

Ryan McShane 56:07
Absolutely. 

Greg Derwart 56:07
And so we're like just 

integrating that into literally every meaning. 

Ryan McShane 56:14
I love 

Greg Derwart 56:14
And 

Ryan McShane 56:14
it. 

Greg Derwart 56:15
so you're starting the meeting with that 

Ryan McShane 56:16
Yeah. 

Greg Derwart 56:17
so that as you go through the the agenda, if you if you're hitting, you know, a situation of adversity, we're always reminded about, okay, what's the big picture here? Why are we here? You know, sitting in this conference room having this conversation? It's all about like feeding back up to our kids. 

Ryan McShane 56:32
And knowing you, Greg, I'm not surprised to hear that, but I'm delighted to hear that because I think that's where it's at. Because if you're looking at a tri umbra, I love doing things in threes because there's a powerful impact of that. And I would say that the motto of threes that defines our future is transparency, accountability and values. And so values is the great unifying factor because you may like your values slice a little bit differently than mine, but ultimately we have the same value, the honesty, the integrity. You know, serving other. 

Rich Bennett 57:08
Others 

Ryan McShane 57:09
Being kind. Yeah. These are kind of things that one to another. I don't care who you are in your walk of life. We all value these things and want these things for ourselves. And so if we can clearly define them and speak to them on a regular basis such that it is the nature 

Rich Bennett 57:23
need. 

Ryan McShane 57:23
of who we are when we step in this environment. Now we've got a lot less conflict, we've got a lot less communication issues. We've got a lot of people, a lot less people flying off the handle and saying, you know, I just can't I just can't with this person. You know, we try to understand each other more so when we know that. 

Rich Bennett 57:42
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 57:43
From those. 

Greg Derwart 57:43
Wilson. Yeah. So. 

Rich Bennett 57:44
So with with your business, if people want to take the what they know, it's more than one course 

Ryan McShane 57:50
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 57:51
courses. 

Ryan McShane 57:51
yeah. So I should probably finish telling you about the business a little bit. So the three services, the air consulting, the leadership development, and I also provide career transition support. So 

Rich Bennett 58:02
Oh, 

Ryan McShane 58:02
it's really cool, Rich, because I'm kind of working at both ends of the workforce spectrum. I'm working with leaders of organizations to identify their performance and training needs 

Rich Bennett 58:14
right, 

Ryan McShane 58:14
and custom designing training based on those needs and coming into those organizations. Or I'm delivering them myself based on recognition of what's needed it out there in the ether. But on the other end of the spectrum, I'm working with people in career transition, with my background in human resources. I understand what hiring managers and recruiters are looking for 

Rich Bennett 58:34
Right. 

Ryan McShane 58:34
and call me strange and might be. Some people like some people like crossword puzzles. Greg. I like to write resumes. I know, I know. It's a wordsmithing. 

Rich Bennett 58:47
Are you serious? 

Ryan McShane 58:48
It's a wordsmithing thing for me. 

Greg Derwart 58:49
gift. 

Ryan McShane 58:50
I love words. 

Greg Derwart 58:50
gift. 

Ryan McShane 58:51
I love words and I love playing with words. And to be able to articulate the power that someone has in their role to create positive impact is really exciting to me 

Greg Derwart 59:02
Well, 

Ryan McShane 59:02
for some 

Greg Derwart 59:02
a 

Ryan McShane 59:02
reason. 

Greg Derwart 59:02
resume is a combination of, you know, a sales pitch and telling a story. 

Ryan McShane 59:07
Hundred percent. 

Rich Bennett 59:08
I'm glad you. I was. I'm glad you said that, because that's one of the things I had to explain to some of these listeners out there that don't know what a resume is. 

Greg Derwart 59:18
But. 

Rich Bennett 59:18
But I love. I love that way. 

Ryan McShane 59:20
You know, interestingly enough, I think it's the most important professional document you have. 

Rich Bennett 59:24
Yes. 

Ryan McShane 59:25
Because it captures who you are, what you do, and what you bring to the table, what value you bring to the table. And, you know, I still, you know, have encounter people all the time and say, Ryan, I've never even written a resume. And they've been in business for 50 years. 

Greg Derwart 59:40
Sure. Sure. 

Ryan McShane 59:41
And it's because it was back in my day. You were just told to go down to the office and see Rich and he'll give you, you know, a desk. And that's how you did it, because you knew someone. 

Rich Bennett 59:52
Pet peeve. 

Ryan McShane 59:53
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 59:55
People that don't write resumes or business owners that have never written a business. 

Greg Derwart 1:00:01
A whole other 

Rich Bennett 1:00:02
Uh 

Greg Derwart 1:00:02
podcast. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:02
huh. Yeah. 

Greg Derwart 1:00:02
Well, let's talk about that another time. 

Ryan McShane 1:00:07
But it's pretty neat to be able to work at both ends of the spectrum, because not only am I working with the leaders who are trying to get that kind of talent into the organization, I'm working with that talent and saying, Hey, you might want to check out this Oregon. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:19
Organization of. 

Ryan McShane 1:00:20
Let me help position you to best feed. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:23
Peter. 

Ryan McShane 1:00:23
The most impactful experiences that you've had throughout your career. So I use a blended style of resume takes the best of both a chronological and functional style and marries them together. And the best advice that I think that I could give anyone who's in that position where they need a solid resume is make sure that they're not writing another job description. Because all too often that's exactly what I see is a resume that reads like a job description. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:51
Yeah, 

Ryan McShane 1:00:51
It is bullet after bullet after bullet saying, I did this, I did that, I did the other thing. But when I read that as a potential hiring manager, I'm going, well, you did these things. What was the net effect of these things? 

Rich Bennett 1:01:04
right. 

Ryan McShane 1:01:04
And that's where most resumes fall short. And that's 100%. And and that's what I deliver for my clients, is let's suss out and ask the bigger why question or, you know what? QUESTION So so you did these things. So what was the impact? How did you impact operational efficiency? How did you impact service loss? How did you impact revenue generation? Because ultimately that's what's going to differentiate you from your competition out there that stop it only defining what they've done. But it also implants in the mind of the reader. We'll have Greg did that for them. I want Greg to do that for us. And that's the difference maker. 

Greg Derwart 1:01:42
What are the outcomes you create? 

Ryan McShane 1:01:43
That's exactly right. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:44
In school anymore. Resume writing. 

Ryan McShane 1:01:46
Well, I'll tell you that I one of the things that I like to do is volunteer in high schools and go in there and advise the high school participants, Hey, this is how you write a resume. And oftentimes what we get are versions of an English teacher resumé that says, You got to do this, you got to do this. And unfortunately, I find myself all too often going back saying, you know, respectfully, let's allow the professionals to write the resumes. The English teachers look at it from a format standpoint. 

Greg Derwart 1:02:16
Grammatical. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:17
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 1:02:19
Put the coal 

Greg Derwart 1:02:19
Which 

Ryan McShane 1:02:19
in 

Greg Derwart 1:02:19
is 

Ryan McShane 1:02:20
right place. 

Greg Derwart 1:02:20
important too. That needs 

Ryan McShane 1:02:21
Sure 

Greg Derwart 1:02:21
to be perfect. 

Ryan McShane 1:02:22
it does. It does. You know, nothing indicates someone's attention to detail when they spell detail wrong. Yes. 

Yeah. 

Greg Derwart 1:02:31
Absolutely. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:33
Oh, God. All right, so with the courses that you teach in. 

Ryan McShane 1:02:38
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:39
Or that you hold or that you're leading. The courses anybody can take. It doesn't matter where they're from, Right. 

Ryan McShane 1:02:46
So just this month on the 21st, we launched the first in our series for this year. In 2025, the Evolve New Leadership series and it's four different programs and four weeks an hour and a half once a week on Tuesday nights starting at 7 p.m.. So from the comfort of your home, you get to log in and join us and you get a great deal of content that you can apply immediately. We just had our first session on Tuesday and it was a teacher's dream in the fact that the attendees were really lapping up what we had to offer. They were assimilating 

Rich Bennett 1:03:22
Good. 

Ryan McShane 1:03:23
that new information and making connections through their own personal experiences. The first topic, believe it or not, was the multigenerational workforce. 

Greg Derwart 1:03:32
You go. 

Ryan McShane 1:03:32
So this gentleman is a millennial by, you know, dates and demographics, and he finds himself in a early leadership position in project management for a construction firm. And he's had some challenges throughout his career where he he's said things in a way that weren't well-received by others and that that was all a part of his learning and growth. And through the process of going through these different generations and what their preferences are based on their experiences. There were so many light bulb moments that I had to really pause and let him process for those experiences, because ultimately, at the end of the day, at the end, the training, I'm saying, okay, now we've talked about this. How tell me how you're going to use it. Oh, and he just went off and said, Oh, well, I see immediately I can do this, I could do that and I can do this other thing. And as a teacher, that's ultimately what you want to hear. Not only did they hear what I had to say, they assimilated it, associated with their own personal experiences. And now how have ideas of what they can do differently going forward? It's going to benefit not only them, but the entire organization. That's what it's about. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:40
I love that they're basically telling a story, too. 

Ryan McShane 1:04:44
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:44
And. I think he's another 

Ryan McShane 1:04:45
Great 

Rich Bennett 1:04:45
great. 

Ryan McShane 1:04:46
thing if that. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:46
If you're going to be a leader. 

Ryan McShane 1:04:48
Yeah. Being 

Rich Bennett 1:04:48
Being 

Ryan McShane 1:04:48
able 

Rich Bennett 1:04:48
able 

Ryan McShane 1:04:49
to 

Rich Bennett 1:04:49
to 

Ryan McShane 1:04:49
tell. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:49
tell the stories actually, was the book coming out, Ryan? 

Ryan McShane 1:04:53
We need to have a book coming out, don't we? 

Rich Bennett 1:04:55
Yes. 

Ryan McShane 1:04:55
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:56
What do you mean? We I look, I work it all. I don't get little. Don't try to throw me under the bus. 

Ryan McShane 1:05:01
Tried to take the focus off of me. Then you got. You picked up on that too. Quick, guys. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:07
I think you have a lot of information which you could put in a book or guide books. 

Ryan McShane 1:05:13
You know, I've got to humbly and vulnerably admit I've had a book in the works for the last ten years, 

and I keep picking it up and putting it down and picking it up and putting it down. I've got to get it across home plate. 

Greg Derwart 1:05:27
How how important is it to you to get it across? Whom? 

Ryan McShane 1:05:31
And that's that's the ultimate question. Greg, You that's why you're good at what you do. If you hold people account. 

Greg Derwart 1:05:40
What? 

Ryan McShane 1:05:40
What a great coach. What a great coach and mentor. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:42
Put fire under your. 

Ryan McShane 1:05:45
Ultimately, it's it's great you ask the question. I love that you did, because I've recently it's in the winter that I write more, that I'm more reflective, and then I get really busy in the spring and then I put the book back. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:01
Right. 

Ryan McShane 1:06:01
The idea about the book Back Down. So every winter I start to pool in and get real contemplative and thinking about what is important, what do I need to do? And that's when the book materials start to bubble up and I start to. Right, right, right, right, right. And then I go back and go, Well, how can I make this all into one cohesive be all, end all book? And then someone usually comes along in the spring and says, Ryan, break it down, simplify it, do one little thing. And this. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:28
This one. 

Ryan McShane 1:06:29
Thing in this book. One thing. Overcomplicating it just. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:33
Put it out there. 

Ryan McShane 1:06:35
It doesn't have to be the perfect book. And that's what's held me back. The perfect book. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:41
Huh? 

Ryan McShane 1:06:42
Yeah. So to answer your question, if I go another ten years and I don't have a book written, I'm going to be very disappointed in myself. 

Greg Derwart 1:06:50
I'm not going to. 

Ryan McShane 1:06:51
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:52
He won't. 

Ryan McShane 1:06:53
I. An accountability partner right here. That's. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:58
He will. So if anybody wants to take the course, how do they sign up for. 

Ryan McShane 1:07:02
So if you go to my website. Yes. If you go to my website. W WW dot H.R. Evolution LLC. Dot com. You will see not only information about this leadership series that I'm doing now, but a myriad of different course topics, leadership topics and staff development topics that I deliver. And if you're interested in having those delivered within your organization. If you're interested in me coming into your organization to deliver that training, I'd be happy to set up and schedule a conversation to make that happen. If you're interested in our future trainings, all you have to do is email me and I'll get you on the list so that you get a notification of our next series of training. That's coming up. And I will be doing several series throughout the year. So that's why I said this is just part one series, one of this program and what we have on the slate, we had the multigenerational workforce. Next week is Emotional Intelligence. Week three is servant leadership. I'm so excited about that one. And week four is dialogue and which I touched on and mentioned as 

Rich Bennett 1:08:11
Yeah, 

Ryan McShane 1:08:11
well. And you're probably wondering how do you do dialogue in a virtual environment? It 

Rich Bennett 1:08:17
it's 

Ryan McShane 1:08:17
it's easy. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:18
easy. 

Ryan McShane 1:08:18
You actually can you actually can and it's it's been powerful in the effect that it's had on others. I put together a training not to filibuster too much here, but I put together a training back in 2020, kind of seeing the writing on the wall with the the major shutdowns and things of that nature. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:36
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 1:08:37
People are needing to emotionally adjust to what's just taken place. So 

Rich Bennett 1:08:43
Mm. 

Ryan McShane 1:08:43
so I put a thriving, thriving through change training together. And it started with the foundation of emotional intelligence. Okay. Processing what's going on around you in a constructive way instead of spiraling out. Okay. And then delivering messages around change management. What is change? How do you respond to change? How does the other people respond to change? So you get the operational tactics of change management, the foundation of emotional intelligence, the operational tactics of change management followed up and activated by the process of dialogue so that we could all communicate together in terms of the direction that we're going. And the response to that was awesome. And I reached about 500 people through that training. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:33
Wow. 

Ryan McShane 1:09:33
Yeah. Just that virtual training as well. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:36
And the thing is, what I love, the fact that you're doing the virtual training is that basically you can help people anywhere. 

Ryan McShane 1:09:43
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:44
And. 

Ryan McShane 1:09:45
We 

Rich Bennett 1:09:45
When you 

Ryan McShane 1:09:45
offer. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:45
offer a course like this, especially paid courses. I think, and especially virtually. 

Ryan McShane 1:09:52
That's better. You're over 

Rich Bennett 1:09:53
Because a lot of times we do it in person and if you offer 

Ryan McShane 1:09:56
it. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:56
is free, 

Ryan McShane 1:09:56
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:57
then you know it's people. Oh, I can make it, you know. 

Greg Derwart 1:10:00
You've got to show the value with a with a fair price. 

Ryan McShane 1:10:02
It has to be that commitment, 

Greg Derwart 1:10:03
So lutely. 

Ryan McShane 1:10:03
you 

Greg Derwart 1:10:03
Yeah. 

Ryan McShane 1:10:03
know. 

Greg Derwart 1:10:04
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:04
I just. I love it. You have any? 

Ryan McShane 1:10:07
Thank you. 

Greg Derwart 1:10:07
No. This has been a real pleasure. Thanks for the invite. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:12
You never needed an invite. You know that the door is always open for you. Geez, I'm just glad you yelled at him about the book. 

Greg Derwart 1:10:20
didn't yell. 

Ryan McShane 1:10:21
Yours has come in rich years is coming. 

Greg Derwart 1:10:23
I just asked a question. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:25
I'll be working. 

Ryan McShane 1:10:26
What a great question. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:26
I'll be working on mine again this week. Well. Hopefully this will get it from. 

Ryan McShane 1:10:32
Yeah, that's. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:33
If I found my ring. 

That's like the book. Right. I want to thank you so much. Those of you listening, make sure that I go to the Web site to sign up for these courses. I want to even say even solopreneur was. 

Ryan McShane 1:10:50
100%. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:50
Because 

Greg Derwart 1:10:50
Oh, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:51
as a solopreneur, you're hoping to build. 

Ryan McShane 1:10:53
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:54
It up anyways and nonprofit world. Absolutely. You mentioned about how you go with the bank, the meetings you do you do with the Rotary Club to. 

Greg Derwart 1:11:05
No, but that's a great idea. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:07
I'm thinking about doing that with the lines 

Greg Derwart 1:11:09
Lines. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:11:09
now. 

Greg Derwart 1:11:09
that's a great thing. But at Rotary, we close with what we call our four way test, which is the way we the things we say, act and do. So it's 

Rich Bennett 1:11:20
Okay. 

Greg Derwart 1:11:20
basically sort of like a vision statement that, that we close out. We recite it together at the end of each meeting. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:28
I like that. 

Ryan McShane 1:11:28
That is cool. 

Greg Derwart 1:11:29
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:29
I like that. 

Greg Derwart 1:11:30
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:30
And all of these nonprofits in the world. In the world. God, I'm thinking local right now. That keeps saying they're struggling. You definitely need to sign up for this. 

Ryan McShane 1:11:41
Yes, 

Rich Bennett 1:11:42
Adele 

Ryan McShane 1:11:42
you're exactly right. And I think it's time that we start to put our money where our mouth is. You know, we have an epidemic 

Rich Bennett 1:11:49
Mm hmm. 

Ryan McShane 1:11:49
and it has nothing to do with COVID. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:51
Right. 

Ryan McShane 1:11:51
The epidemic that we have right now is we promote people into leadership positions and then never train them to be leaders. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:59
No. 

Ryan McShane 1:12:00
And we think that we're doing good by promoting great individual contributors. But as a leader, the competencies and skills are vastly different from an individual contributor role. And so why do we expect them to be successful? In fact, we're setting them up for failure and everyone underneath of them is being set up for. And then we wonder why we've got engagement issues. We wonder why we have turnover issues. Well, that great individual contributor has become a nightmare boss because they don't know what they don't know. And at that level, it will hurt you and the entire organization. And ultimately, that's what drives me. I've been exposed to those bad bosses. And I'm a firm believer it never has to be that way. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:44
Now. 

Ryan McShane 1:12:46
And that's why I'm real passionate about the work I do. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:48
I love that. 

Greg Derwart 1:12:49
Good for you. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:49
love it. Anything else that Ryan? 

Ryan McShane 1:12:52
I just want to say what a pleasure it was to sit down and have this really organic conversation. It was just just poured out of me. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:59
Well, this is just a big. 

Ryan McShane 1:13:00
And I appreciate that. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:01
Feeling you're going to be on again. 

Ryan McShane 1:13:02
I would like that. I would like that. And I have my friend Greg here. Greg and I have known each other for a number of years with our Association of Chesapeake Human Resource Association and other networking groups and Greg and I. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:16
You know. 

Ryan McShane 1:13:17
A few coffee shops in a time or two. And so it's great to see. Greg. It's been a little while since we've seen each other and and Rich, it's a real pleasure to meet you as well. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:26
Nice to meet you in person. 

Ryan McShane 1:13:27
Yeah. I feel a connection already. Appreciate that. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:29
My last question for you, though. 

Ryan McShane 1:13:31
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:31
What's the next big thing for Ryan? 

Ryan McShane 1:13:34
Hmm. great question. 

I would love to see an opportunity where I could have this message broadcast to as many people as possible. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:48
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoy today's episode and learn something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversations with Rich Bennett dot com for updates, giveaways and more. Until next time, take care, be kind and keep the conversations going.