Melodies of Freedom: Kid Souf’s Brave Odyssey from Struggle to Stardom

Rich Bennett 0:00
Philadelphia's own James Christopher, better known as Kid Self, marries eighties vibes with modern sounds to tell his profound story of growth and self-discovery. Raise queer in a restrictive religious cult kid self found solace in the anthems of Britney Spears and Lady Gaga. These secret musical escapes not only shaped his unique sound, but also led to his prominent role as a songwriter for luminaries like David Guetta and Selena Gomez. His upcoming track, Waterproof Mascara, is a moving nod to his past and a resiliency harnessed amidst challenges. So join us as Kid South explores the profound influence of his cult upbringing on this musical journey. You are the second cult survivor I've had on here. 

Kid Souf 0:48
Really? Yes. 

Rich Bennett 0:50
A young lady named Ashley Easter. 

Kid Souf 0:53
Wonderful. Wonderful. 

Rich Bennett 0:54
And she. Oh, God, she is awesome. So, first of all, kid, welcome. I'm just going to call you kid for sure. So welcome. Welcome to the show. Van. How's it going? 

Kid Souf 1:05
It's going great. Thank you so much for having me. 

Rich Bennett 1:06
Oh, my pleasure. So I just want to start from the beginning because this when I talked to Ashley, that's something that amazed me about growing up in a cult and now her with hers. It was. 

It was in Virginia, so it was like the southern I don't want to even say was Southern Baptist. I forget what she said, but it was like the stuff she told me just blew my mind. I was like, No way. So with you, I was in in Philly or. 

Kid Souf 1:41
It was in Coatesville. In Coatesville. So like probably an hour and some change outside. 

Rich Bennett 1:46
Okay. 

Kid Souf 1:48
But yeah, I know it was maybe a little bit different, but I didn't even realize that I was in a cult. They had I guess no cult really says hi. Would you like to join? Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:57
Yeah, exactly. They like. Would you see. 

Kid Souf 1:59
Yourself? 

Rich Bennett 2:00
Yeah. Not what you see on the sitcoms. 

Kid Souf 2:02
Exactly. But they did. They did kind of 

take my my mother in a very, you know, downtrodden situation and offer relief from an unknown source that would be God and then kind of isolate and move into. And I didn't even so we didn't realize we were in a cult until after I had gotten out and decided I wasn't going to go to go to these places and put myself through high school and got to. Think. 

Rich Bennett 2:31
When you say we, you talk about your mother and you didn't realize it. 

Kid Souf 2:34
Yeah. No, we had no idea why. I had no idea that it was a that it was a a cult mentality right at all. But there's a couple stories that stick out in my brain where it's just like it's How did I not realize? How did I not realize? Like, I guess I was in sixth grade, but like, you know. 

Rich Bennett 2:51
I didn't. They're kind of young. Yeah. 

Kid Souf 2:53
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 2:54
So how did you guys end up getting out? 

Kid Souf 2:57
So I 

they, 

when I was going into high school, I decided I didn't want to go to their high school anymore. And my parents said, Well, you can go to Catholic school, but you have to pay for it yourself. And I said, Fine, I'll, I'll do it. And so I paid. 

Rich Bennett 3:18
And this is ninth grade. 

Kid Souf 3:20
Yeah. I'm a bit of I don't know how much of a logic person here, but I'm good. 

Rich Bennett 3:25
You're fine. 

Kid Souf 3:26
Man. Bit of an asshole. And I was like, perfect. So I picked the most expensive high school in the area, the best one that I could find and and work, you know, three, four jobs. Hey, some of. Some of which over the table and some of it under the table. Right. But I worked at the school over the summer every day 8 a.m. to I think 3 p.m. and then also did side work and actually waterproof mascara is about looking back on first off the child in the coat but the child coming out of it went through so much more to to push myself out of it because. 

Rich Bennett 4:03
Right. 

Kid Souf 4:04
At the time my little sisters were still in it. And so they were, you know, why don't you just come back? My parents were in it. They said, Why don't you just come back? And I was doing horrible things with my with my body and yeah, you know, selling that to random strangers and doing things just to be able to get by because I couldn't stand to be in it. And I ended up because of that, showing my sisters a world outside of outside of what they were being offered at the time. And they ended up going to the sister school for the all boys school that I went to. And then once all of us were out of it, we were kind of like, Mom, dad, your your crazy. Here's the real world. Remember this? Because they were. Yeah, they entered in when I was seven years old. So I think the thing the driving force that got me to push myself out of it was the fact that I remembered life before them. I remember when my mom would go to church like a normal Catholic and she'd, Oh, you guys come in with no, well, you know, with me and my dad. And we'd be making pinewood derby cars in the basement or some. Oh, yeah. Little things like that. That's what I remember from before. Wow. And so it kind of that's that's the driving force for me to get out. 

Rich Bennett 5:15
Okay. So growing. So your parents, before you guys went into the cult, they were Catholic. 

Kid Souf 5:22
Yes. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 5:23
How in the world do they go from Catholic religion to this to this? 

Kid Souf 5:27
Well, the the. The cult, they they call themselves Catholics, but they call everyone that they called everyone that wasn't a part of this this kind of denomination of Catholicism, cafeteria Catholics, which meant they picked and choose what they wanted to believe. And then left the rest. And wow. So, again, it's that isolation that that that kind of partially it's part of what defines what a call is is saying them they're wrong we're right follow this and and coming up with catchy names is definitely a easy way of making the how. 

Rich Bennett 6:05
Cafeteria Catholics. 

Kid Souf 6:07
I know and the alliteration is everything. Okay I got to convince him there. 

Rich Bennett 6:13
Cafeteria. You know what? This is kind of scary now because now when I go to my great nieces and nephews school, which is a Catholic school, they hold a lot of stuff in the cafeteria. I'm afraid to go in there. 

Kid Souf 6:24
Yeah, a one of the cafeteria Catholics. Come on. 

Rich Bennett 6:27
I can't play. I can't go for I can't go to bingo tonight in the cafeteria. 

Kid Souf 6:32
No, I can't go to the cafeteria. They're unbelievable. 

Rich Bennett 6:35
Wow. All right, so this is the part that gets me to see you Put yourself through high school. The private school. Because if you had to pay for it. So how old were you when you started working? 

Kid Souf 6:48
I was. 

Rich Bennett 6:49
What, 13? 14? Yeah. How in the hell were you able to find work at 14? 

Kid Souf 6:56
Uh, I mean, so small. It was very illegal work. 

Rich Bennett 7:00
Okay. Okay. 

Kid Souf 7:02
Got it. Definitely. And, you know, I had done sex work in the past, okay. And things like that. But I had tried more as an adult and it was kind of shady, but I didn't make as much money as when I did when I was a kid, which is horrifying. Wow. But obviously not not part of my life anymore. But it was a part of my past. And there's something that I was like when I was writing waterproof Mascara. The idea came from when I was in therapy. I was talking to my therapist about these experiences, like putting myself through high school and going through and going through the things that I had to do to be able to do that because there was no other work afforded to me other than working at my high school, which did bring down the tuition from 15,000 to like 6000 a year. But to make up that remainder of 6000 is like is is, you know, difficult. 

Rich Bennett 7:51
Especially for a 14 year old. 

Kid Souf 7:53
Exactly. So I've as soon as I turned 60 and found a, you know, regular job and worked in retail and worked up from there. But until then, it was it was really difficult. And so I was recounting all of those experiences to my therapist and she was like kind of pushing me in a direction of viewing my childhood self as I would like if I was looking at a 14 year old that was going through something terrible and approached that person with with that kind of kindness. And I got really choked up, actually, because I was like looking at this child and I was like, Oh my God, how did you not cry? How did not break? How did you not feel it? Because I didn't feel it at all. I didn't I didn't see anything wrong with it. I was like, I'm just doing what I have to do. It didn't it didn't affect me at all at the time. 

Rich Bennett 8:40
But it also especially at that age. 

Kid Souf 8:43
Yeah, I was. Completely numb to so many different emotions. Like I would watch movies and everyone's bawling in the theater and we're like, you know, it's it's silly. Yeah, it's it is something that I just I had no feelings at the time. Wow. And so as I started to feel those things, I was like, oh, my God, how did how did you hold up? How did you hold up? You you held strong like you were waterproof mascara. And that's where the song comes from. 

Rich Bennett 9:07
You know what I mean? So you've been writing songs, but already with your story. Have you ever thought about writing a book? 

Kid Souf 9:16
Oh, God, I would love to write a book. As soon as there's interest in it. That's all. That's what I'll be going for. Sure. 

Rich Bennett 9:22
Oh, I guarantee you there would be interest in it. Gary. I mean, all the different people I've had on here. Yeah, there would definitely be interest in it, without a doubt. 

Kid Souf 9:31
The thing with. The book, I think. I think I'm still in like my third chapter. I can tell I'm in. My like six chapter to start writing it, and then I'll be in my eighth chapter by the time I'm done. I have such ADHD and it might be my 10th job kid. 

Rich Bennett 9:43
I'm a kid that's called sequels. 

Kid Souf 9:46
There we go. Sequels are like, Wow. But yes. 

Rich Bennett 9:51
So. So how did your experience growing up in a religious cult actually shape your perception of music and its power? 

Kid Souf 9:59
You know, it's it seems silly from the outside, but once you have that bit of a background, what something that gave me a touch of reality throughout all of it was that I had this secret. It was it was a clock that my parents had put in my room, but they didn't know there was a radio in it. And so I would wait for everyone to go to bed and I would turn on whatever Top 40 station for us. I was Q One or two or 96 five, and I would I would turn those on and flip between the two of them, like, you know, whichever had come on at the time for the other one and which is such an antiquated thinking about now, it's just crazy. This is like the thing that I thought about, but we didn't have any other technology. And so I would I would listen on one volume and literally through the whole night, like until the morning show came on, it was Elvis Duran in the morning show, which I also love them. But I would listen through until the morning show came on almost every night. And I was just obsessed with the sounds of like, again, you mentioned in the beginning it was like Britney. There was. Yeah. I young money. There was like all these people from like the 20 tens and like a couple of years before or a couple of years after that, that, that huge wall of sound labels controlled everything at the time. But there was that huge wall of sound like pop music. Yeah, danceable thing. And if you listen to my music like that, it carries through for sure. Yeah, I listen to a lot of the people that I compare myself to or the people that are on my level now and I am like, Oh, their music sounds so clean and it sounds so like simple and good. And I listen back to mine. I'm like, This is so busy and crazy. But at the same time, I recognize my roots. It's it's not that stripped down sound. It's it's the huge over the top. You can't pick out an individual instrument. It's it's strong. 

Rich Bennett 11:48
Yeah. So music was actually your escape. 

Kid Souf 11:52
Music wasn't my escape 100%. And throughout the time there, I mean, we sang in the churches and we sang in the choirs and everything like that. So and I have like a that that's another way that the cult kind of helps with my musical knowledge is I have great knowledge of harmony. Again, if you listen through to the songs now, there's very rarely a single voice on the track. It's usually, you know, at least five or six stacked, stacked harmonies throughout, whether it's in the background or there's things in the background that I just I know where to place things based on this this experience that had that I had back then, listening to a lot of classical music and a lot of choir pieces. 

Rich Bennett 12:30
So now I take you when you went to school, did you ever study music theory, theory or anything? 

Kid Souf 12:36
A little bit. I think we did music theory, but I was always one of those people that learned by ear. And so the music theory I would like. I would go through. Teachers pretty quickly because I would like ask that my parents wanted me to learn the theory. And so I would like kind of like, Hey, can you play it for me? So that I know what it sounds like? I know what I'm like. They're like, Oh yeah, sure. And then they play it for me a little bit and I'm like, Okay, cool. But you know, and. Then it and I play it through by ear because that's how I learned best. And yeah, so I never really, like, got super into theory. I mean, I know theory now just based on I write a lot of work in a lot of studios, but in terms of like reading sheet music, that is so not my. Putting to at all. 

Rich Bennett 13:28
Well, there are a lot of musicians I still can't. 

Kid Souf 13:30
Yeah, that's it. So I would have to if I, if you were gave me a piece of sheet music of something I've never heard before, I would have to sit there for like a whole day. It's something I wish I took the time and did as a kid and probably won't do this. 

Rich Bennett 13:43
I was, you see, because I learned how to read it. But you put a piece of sheet music in front of me now. It's been so long, I wouldn't have a clue. 

Kid Souf 13:50
That I would. 

Rich Bennett 13:51
Not have. 

Kid Souf 13:53
Chord sheets, though I studied, I when I became like, you know, grew up and started doing, you know, a lot of live shows and stuff like that. I realized I need some some instrument knowledge more than we had. And I needed to be able to communicate that with other people. And at the time I was doing a lot of jazz music. So I shot this like big jazz teacher guy message and and he started teaching me and he was he approached it from like, okay, what are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? And I was like, My weakness is not being able to read sheet music. He said, Great, you're doing jazz music. You don't need sheet music. And so he taught me how to write lead sheets and do things like where you can write a melody line, but you're really just writing the chords, right? You're writing the chords maybe over the melody line and maybe with lyrics underneath it. But most of the time it's chords and then the key and the improvisation between that is up to the musician. 

Rich Bennett 14:46
Okay, wait a minute now. So I have a funny feeling you're related to me somehow. We just don't know. Classical music, jazz pop. Hey, something tells me you like all types of music. 

Kid Souf 15:01
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 15:02
But something also tells me, especially when you once you mentioned classical and in jazz, are you the type? And I do this. I love doing this where you'll put on the music, but you like to sit there and pick out like the different instruments and everything? 

Kid Souf 15:18
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 15:20
Okay. I'm telling you do were really. 

Kid Souf 15:23
Especially with like. Again, that huge wall of sound. Yeah, sound. There are so many things going on that like I remember I was listening to when it first came out. Bad Romance by Lady Gaga. Yeah. There's this, like, little thing that goes in and annoyed me about the song. From then on, I couldn't really listen to the song anymore because there is this little. Thing. That goes through an entire song in the background. And I was like, I can't hear anything but that sound. And it's something that lists that's just sitting in the background. It's carrying a bit of rhythm, 

but it goes through the whole song and I couldn't hear anything else after that. It was like a hyper fixation. 

Rich Bennett 15:59
It's funny because I'll sit there and of course I have to do it when nobody's home if I crank it up. Otherwise I got to put the headphones on and I'll just sit there and people get upset at me, friends and all. Because if we go to a concert, number one, I have to be close up because I just like to sit there and watch the musicians and see what they're doing. 

Kid Souf 16:22
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 16:22
Whereas before I remember when I was younger growing up, you know, I'll be out there, I'll be headbanging, I'll be getting into everything. But now it's like now and I'll be like, Damn the guitar finger working shit, man, that is freaking awesome. Or, you know, I learned to appreciate music even more. Especially, and I mentioned this a lot, but when I saw the documentary from the Beatles song, I'll get back to how they wrote the music, gave me a whole new love for the Beatles. 

Kid Souf 16:55
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 16:56
It's because I never do that. So when did you first realize that you needed to embrace your true self despite the environment you grew up in? 

Kid Souf 17:06
Honestly, from I have been writing music and realizing that's what I want to do before, since actually just right before the cult. Okay, I'm. Alright. I'm sorry. I'm like, okay. So it's like right during as, as all the drama was happening and we were kind of it was before the cult, but it was after all the, all the family drama. Okay, that led to that. But I wrote my first song is called Reality and I Want to Be a Disney star so badly. 

Rich Bennett 17:39
Explained the Mickey Mouse shirt. 

Kid Souf 17:41
There we go. See. We remain true to our childhood self. 

Yeah, I wanted to be a Disney star really bad. And the song I. Girl, I loved it. Just like now the dream and not the. You know, It's just like a beauty queen. It's I was so cute, but I remember all of that. And that's, that's when I started writing music. That's when I knew I wanted to be a musician. And when I wanted to be an artist. 

So I guess, like, it's kind of just never not been there, right? Yeah, there wasn't like a profound moment where I realized I needed to. There was a profound moment where I realized I needed to get rid of all of my backup plans because I realized I'm a person that likes a sure thing. And that was when I was in college. I was working with a voice teacher that I still work with today. Shout out to Susan. But I. 

Rich Bennett 18:32
Tell Susan, she does an awesome. 

Kid Souf 18:34
Job. Oh, thank you. Oh, I will have to reiterate that to her. But she will forever be listening as well. 

It was like I. I forgot what she said, but she didn't say drop out of college. She said maybe like consider going into something like a different major or something like that because I was getting a lot of advice at college on how things should be done. But then I was in the music industry at the time and nobody was doing that. So it was like, Here's what you should do, here's what actually happens. And I was like, Well, why am I wasting my time and money here? Let's just get rid of that. Right? And if I had that backup plan, especially right now in my life, I would 100% be chasing the backup plan. 

If you get into music for the money, you're delusional. Yeah, there's really it's it's it's. It's a hard world to be living in. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 19:27
And what was the backup plan? 

Kid Souf 19:29
The backup plan was still in music, but just a general. I was in music business, which is okay. No, no shade anyone that's in music business, I just 

figured I would learn a lot more being in the music business than right now that nobody's ever asked me for a degree in everything I've done. No one's asked me for my degree. They have asked me who I've worked for, who I've worked with and all of that stuff. So if you're, you know, in the program, if I was in a program that was like at pace or at somewhere where I would like meet people, that would be a value to me. And in the future, then 100% that's worth it, right? But I was in a little college often random. Bump up nowhere. So 

there was no there was no there. There you can find anyone anywhere. And I did meet some. Fantastic people that I mean, my my roommate now is my best friend from school. So I'm certainly not not sitting on the school, but it was oh. 

Rich Bennett 20:23
God. 

Kid Souf 20:24
Not worth the name. Right. 

Rich Bennett 20:26
So, yeah, you mentioned secretly listening to Britney Spears and Lady Gaga. Mm hmm. How have they influenced your sound and message? 

Kid Souf 20:39
I will say like Gaga freedom all the time. I mean, and also her business sense. I am a I'm a Capricorn through and through. And so obviously I'm going to focus on someone's someone's business sense a lot. And I really respect her. She is she is a someone that, you know, took a year off and still was the top of the Forbes Yeah. Making that's because she she just knows how to run her business and that's really smart. But in addition to that, like just her message of self-expression, I mean, me and every other gay kid that was born in the 1997 to 2 two range. Well, I agree with that. But like, her message was something that stuck with me, obviously got me to be a lot more fearless in the way that I interacted with my parents and the cult and like kind of you know, when they were laying their hands on me, praying the devil out of me, I was like in my head saying, This is dumb. 

Rich Bennett 21:34
Yeah. 

Kid Souf 21:36
And so if it wasn't for them, I probably would have believed that. And that that's something that was very 

formative. But also just 

the the pop sensibilities. Like, I can't you can't listen to their songs and not hear them for the next however long. You know, it's it's something that just lives in your head. And I think having that be like my kind of my only sense of music that in classic rock I really love and grew up grew up with Bruce Springsteen. So he was I was obsessed with Bruce Springsteen, still. 

Rich Bennett 22:12
A hell of a songwriter. 

Kid Souf 22:13
That's and that's what I learned from Bruce Springsteen is the storytelling of yes, you can't listen to a song and not even even if it has nothing to do with your life. You apply it to your life because you're like, I have something that feels the exact same as he was feeling when he was writing this, and he can literally say, I wore two left shoes the one day and walk down the street, and I felt strange, like I was walking towards you and I wasn't. But like, and it's like something that, like, makes no sense. But for some reason it like, I'm like, oh, I was walking the wrong way towards someone the one time you feel and it warms your heart and you can't help but relate to it. So that I learned from, from the classic rock songs. But the that earworm, that earworm quality, you couldn't get away from it like any Rihanna song. And one of them name any one of them and and you can't help but hum the melody. Britney Spears, same thing. Gaga same thing. I mean, anyone from that era. Yeah, just it was it was the most important thing. 

Rich Bennett 23:16
I have to ask you this, because I'll be honest with you, lady Gaga. Yeah. When she first came out, I mean, yeah, the music was all right. It was, I guess, because as a DJ, it was all just thrown at you. 

Kid Souf 23:29
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 23:30
But holy cow, man, when she did Jazz Freak and blew my ass away, and I think in all honesty, I think that was her true calling, singing jazz. 

Kid Souf 23:44
Oh, absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 23:45
What's your take on that? Because some people agree with me. Others they don't. I think she. 

Kid Souf 23:51
Wouldn't have gotten to the heights that she did. Yeah, but I think like when you hear it, when you hear her do musical theater, when you hear Duke, oh. 

Rich Bennett 24:00
God. 

Kid Souf 24:01
It like when I've been I was telling everyone I was preaching the gospel of Gaga for a years. And then and how talented. She was. You know, it wasn't it wasn't. Just these BOPs, these like songs and these visuals and these crazy things that she was doing. It was like her voice, like she can sit at a piano and nobody would listen to me. And then she went on the Oscars and did the Sound of Music. And everyone was like, You are right. The girl can sing. 

Rich Bennett 24:27
Oh, hell yeah. 

Kid Souf 24:28
And then she did the Tony Bennett project, and I was just Oh, that's honestly what what? Why is she still at the top of my my list of people that inspire me? Because I do like to consider I write pop songs, I write write dance pop songs, but I write a lot of jazz. I sing a lot. I do. I used to do musical theater. I like I'm a I'm a singer. I and I've got as I'm writing more and more and more for the next project, it's starting to dip into like my, like old funk and R&B, like influences, like my, my again, before, before the call, I have memories of my dad, and I was dancing around the kitchen, making pancakes on Sunday, listening to Stevie Wonder and like, I'm in my room very superstitious, you know. You know. 

Rich Bennett 25:22
God. 

Kid Souf 25:23
So I think the the the Gaga comparison, honestly, when I hear people say, oh, this is like you're you're gay, Gaga I'm like, oh, thank you so much. That's the biggest compliment I've ever gotten in my. Life. 

Because she's such a like, she can go in any area and have. 

Rich Bennett 25:46
I was just going to say that I think she could sing anything, even opera. 

Kid Souf 25:52
Absolutely. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 25:53
You give it to her. And to me that is a true musician. Yeah. You know, and because you hear it a lot with Prime, he's like a guitar player. Your best guitar players, in my opinion, they're the ones that can play classical. They can play Spanish guitar, they learn all the different techniques. To me, your best singers because your voice is your instrument. So that's I still consider singers, musicians, the ones that can sing anything you put them. If you give them gospel, they'll knock it out of the park. You give them jazz, they can do that. You give them opera, they'll just play. And I do believe Lady Gaga, there's a few of them out there. I believe they can do it. Lady Gaga without a doubt. 

Kid Souf 26:40
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 26:41
Pat Benatar in her younger days. 

Kid Souf 26:43
100%. 

Rich Bennett 26:44
I believe so. And there's just there's some, but not as many. But then again, you don't know because I think some of them are free to step out of their comfort zone. 

Kid Souf 26:57
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 26:58
So actually, are are there any songs from your childhood that you associate with pivotal moments in your life? 

Kid Souf 27:07
I used to do 

actually. Bob Dylan is famous for this. I used to. 

Rich Bennett 27:13
Oh, okay. I thought, You're going to tell me a Bob Dylan song for a minute. 

Kid Souf 27:17
No. Are you talking about songs I've written or songs that. 

Rich Bennett 27:20
No, no. That you knew that you heard. 

Kid Souf 27:23
That I heard. Oh, yeah. Thunder Road. 

Rich Bennett 27:25
Bruce sprang from your childhood. 

Kid Souf 27:28
That's my Thunder Road is. Was where we were in the cold. But I was. I was. So we weren't allowed to listen to secular music, but my parents had CDs and like a little CD case thing and I used to steal the greatest hits of Bruce Springsteen and put it in like a little CD player that I had and climb into the closet. So literally, I was in the closet. 

I would climb into the closet. And put the headphones in and and listen. And it was the the river used to play. I was like seven or eight years old. Like I would ball my eyes out and I had no idea why. I just would cry. And obviously, like Thunder Road was like the big hit there. And so I had that, of course, stuck in my head. I knew every song backwards, forwards, inside, out and Sideways that Boston, my dad, that was like my my dad the first time he like, was like, I know I must listen to secular music, but here's. 

Rich Bennett 28:29
This. 

Kid Souf 28:30
Here's Boston and kiss it Boston and Kessler like that they. 

Rich Bennett 28:34
What the hell do you blow me away here? 

Kid Souf 28:36
Oh, thank you. But if you listen to my music, you'll hear all those as I do the crazy visuals of Kiss. I've got the the songwriting of, you know, the storytelling of Bruce Springsteen and stuff like that. I really, really love incorporating all of these influences into pieces that I do now. But Thunder Road by Bruce Springsteen, I would say, is the answer to that. If there was a moment in the car with my mom where that song came on the radio and I was singing along to it, and it was, I think the first time I was allowed to ride in the front seat. So I was maybe like 12 

and we would drive and fast down the road and she starts singing along. I was like, You know this song? She's like, This is my song. Like what. It was. It was a funny little like, anecdote. And then years later, when I was playing The Bitter End in New York, I kind of had taken like a lot of piano lessons to be able to do the piano part of that perfectly and surprised her by playing that for her. And just like told that little story on stage was here. 

Rich Bennett 29:37
All right, so you're not far from Jersey now. So have you ever made it to Asbury? 

Kid Souf 29:44
Asbury Park? Of course. 

Rich Bennett 29:45
Yeah. I was going to say, have you had the opportunity to be in the Stone Pony when Springsteen had just show up? 

Kid Souf 29:51
I did not. I was not there when he showed up, but I was okay. The The Stone Pony is like a professor of mine used to go there and play with a band that he was part of. And I would I would go see him there. 

Rich Bennett 30:04
Yeah. I had the opportunity to see that happen. I was stationed not far from there. This is back in the early eighties. Yes, I'm that old. And we go to the Stone Pony every once in a while. And sure enough, he came in one day and just got up on stage with the band and started jamming. First time I saw Bon Jovi was, Oh my God. Oh yeah, yeah. That. That place, from what I understand, is still there. Still rocks. 

Kid Souf 30:30
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I have friends that are still touring through there. 

Rich Bennett 30:34
Wow. I mean, I got one of these days. I'll get back up there. So you're. 

Kid Souf 30:39
Just there. Not that long ago, I saw really? Yeah. He showed up there, like day. Like a random. 

Rich Bennett 30:44
Yeah, he'll just pop in. It's like, holy. 

Kid Souf 30:48
I can't wait to. Be that iconic. I can't wait to be that iconic and just walk into a place that he's finding me onstage. 

Rich Bennett 30:55
You mean you can't wait? You're already there, man. 

Kid Souf 30:57
Oh, thanks. 

Rich Bennett 30:58
Now, believing yourself, you're already there. So your track waterproof mascara, it's deeply personal. How do you approach the vulnerability of sharing such intimate stories through your music? 

Kid Souf 31:11
So funny enough, I this was, I want to say, like a year ago now. Okay, like August, September, October of last year, I was just starting to record this EP project and I was just starting to work out of the Studio Bridge Studios up and, you know, Center City, North Philadelphia. And I was working with a producer and we had like a regularly scheduled session time last week, and he called me the night before the one time and said, I had heard rumors that they were working on some writing projects for some bigger artists. But and I really wanted to be a part of it, so I was like manifesting that into the universe, like, I'm going to be on this Justin Bieber project, I'm going to be on this. 

Rich Bennett 32:03
Right. 

Kid Souf 32:03
Project for this person or this person. And I but at the time I was just doing my own music there, and I got a call from him to say, Hey, can we reschedule our session tomorrow to like an earlier time, maybe 11 to 2. There's a session that starts at three, which you're welcome to stick around for. I can't say too much, but bring your Justin Bieber voice. And I was like. Oh my God, I got it. Let's go. And so I showed up, did my session, and then did the the session afterward. I didn't know anyone there. And, you know, grew up in a call. You don't have social skills. I was. Like, I. Had no social skills and I had severe social anxiety. So, Max, my my producer, he he was like, he's like my dad, my music dad. He's the sweetest, sweetest man. And he was like, introducing me around afterward. And then he just kind of like, brought me into one of the rooms. He said, This is James. He's a really good writer, have fun, and walked out. And they were just starting a song and I had made like these like I keep a list of songs, starters, ideas that I have concepts of maybe first lines or lines of a chorus. 

And they started playing this beat and everyone was kind of doing these like different ideas. Nothing was nobody was like married to any ideas. And I was like, I have this idea. What is it. 

F1 S4 33:33
Waterproof mascara like your eyes are made of still oil. 

Kid Souf 33:39
And they were like, That's the one. Let's go with that. And so the way I guess I approach the reality of that song would be I was writing it for the weekend. I didn't have to sing it. It was so it was first. 

Rich Bennett 33:53
What? 

Kid Souf 33:53
Yeah, this song was originally written and submitted for a project for that. So the name drop, like, I don't want to be that right. But. Like it was originally written for the weekend and David got a collaboration between the two of them and then, you know, the song was passed on, but I kind of was glad the song was part songs. I walked into that and wow. And when it was passed on, they tried to keep it and I was like, No, no, no. I will rewrite the chorus a thousand times over. You can keep all the parts that I didn't write, but I'm keeping this concept, the waterproof mascara concept. I want it, it's mine. I'm taking it. And I'm so glad I did, because now I get to put it out myself. 

Rich Bennett 34:28
That is awesome there. So actually, can you walk us through your songwriting process? 

Kid Souf 34:35
It happened so many different ways. Like I said, I've been writing since I was seven and so I don't know, I would I kind of get bored if I write the same way a lot of times. So one thing that like writing for, like when I when I started writing, I would like I said, like the Bob Dylan tactic of like he never went through. He didn't have a hard life, but he's like the blues guy. So he. He would create these, these scenarios in his head. Imagine a scenario and then write a song around it. And that's what I used to do. I would like imagine I was looking into a girl's eyes on a rooftop and I have the song sitting on a rooftop. But the first little CD that I still have when I was like a little kid, but I create these scenarios in my head and write a song around it. That's a really fun way of writing. I did that for a while. Then I started trying to dive into personal experiences and I started doing, you know, Charlie Puth talks about you come up with a common phrase that everyone says. Yeah, and. Then put it to melody. And that's a song that's a good pop song because everyone to be able to relate to it. So that's what did with better as friends. I think we're better as friends. 

F1 S4 35:39
I think we're best friends that aren't. Let's just talk about it. 

Kid Souf 35:44
And so we were able to like I like exploring all different concepts, But yeah, the, the writing project of like writing for other artists is so fun to me because I get to pretend to be someone that I'm completely not in, that never represents me in any way. 

And I get to explore the world of, okay, what's Justin Bieber doing right now? You know, he's he's married, okay? He's like, severely in love. Here's the prompt that we've been given, you know, here. Like, I get to, like, live in that world, write a song and then it just, like, gets it's up there. It doesn't you know, it's not there's no pressure behind it. 

And do it over and over and over and over again. I never get tired of it, though, because I'm it's a different person every time. It's like a different world that I get to live in. So that's one way that I really like to write. But for myself, I kind of 

obviously there's some times where I write really personal songs, but a lot of times they're like severely sad and depressing. And so I never want to, you know, put those out. Yeah. You know, just I don't want to even manifest my life like that. I don't want it to be sad. And I want. To sing that constantly. Yeah, but of course there's that. I'll sit here and, you know, have a cup of. Old. Fashioned and cry my eyes out and. And. And write. That's a great way for me to write. And that's a great way for me to start getting the, the creative juices flowing. But most of the time I will be driving and that's 100%, I think of like the five songs I've put out so far, six songs with waterproof mascara. 

But of, of all of those, 

I want to say like, 

like four. Out of the. Five or five out of the six were, were written in the car or or imagined up in the car. Right. It's I think my brain goes blank and I get these like random thoughts the top of my head. And that's where this mascara came from. I was driving to a sign, I forget where I was driving. I was driving somewhere and it was right after my therapy and I was like thinking about the things we had just talked about. And I was like, amazed by my childhood self. So it was kind of cute. I was like giving him a little hug and saying, You held really strong. And that that that concept popped in my head there. But, you know, sometimes driving, I guess. 

Rich Bennett 38:11
So have you to actually decide, you know, which experiences to draw from and translate into music? 

Kid Souf 38:17
I think it's whatever's most pressing at the time or whatever has the catchiest melody associated with it. But it's a I do I do really love that there's kind of a 

there's a vast amount of experiences to draw from. Okay, Like we can I'd like, you know, the past few years I've been really in like the party circle in Philadelphia, and there's a lot of things came up because of that. A lot of people and personalities and and things that I learned about myself through that. Hmm. And, you know, that's but a lot of party favors is about. But then that's the EP by the way the party favors is that if you I don't know if I will have announced that by the time this comes out, but here we. Are announcing that. 

That's what a lot of that that if he's about that it's like you left me scars like party favors and then like the stuff after that is drawing from the things I've I've put I've learned from that situation and Right. And so there's there's so much, so much to draw from. I don't I honestly I think it's whatever is right for the music that's presented or whatever is most pressing of a melody in my head whenever I wake up, you know, this is actually really true. Whatever. I wake up and it's stuck in my head from writing six months ago. That's that's I know that song has to be put out. 

Rich Bennett 39:46
I have a funny feeling you're like me, too. You're you probably at night sleep. And all of a sudden you'll be dreaming and have a song pop in your head and write. Get up and have to write it down right away and not be able to get back to sleep. 

Kid Souf 39:57
I've annoyed myself. So much. Over the years because I have such trouble sleeping. Not falling asleep but. But staying asleep. Right. And I'll wake up and, you know, it's whatever melody or whatever thing is stuck in my head. And I'm like. Grab the phone home and then. Try to call back to see if it doesn't work. Then I got to write the rest of the song and then I got to come up with chords and then I got to put a little production down and then it's like four, five, 6:00 in the morning and I've got to go to the gym. 

Rich Bennett 40:27
Yeah. Speaking of which, I have to ask you this. Okay. On your website and again, first of all, tell everybody the website. 

Kid Souf 40:37
That's kids soft dot com. 

Rich Bennett 40:38
That's as you have people. 

Kid Souf 40:40
Yep. 

Rich Bennett 40:40
But in the gallery okay there's this photo of you sit against the locker room or against the lockers. Yeah. Boxer shorts. Mm hmm. Please tell me that was make up on your face because it looked like you got clocked. 

Kid Souf 40:52
My my best. Friend and I so was for the music video for tomato potato. My best friend and I did the make up for that and I posted a picture of it like while we were recording as a promo and my dad was like, he called All Concerned. He's like, What happened? Like, you're hurt. Like, it's like, Yeah, we did a good job. 

Rich Bennett 41:13
It was like, Holy crap, man. I hope the hell that's make of. 

Kid Souf 41:17
Yeah, yeah, it was supposed to. It's the we did like a physical representation of the fights that I would, I would have that were never physical but with an ex of mine. 

Rich Bennett 41:30
Oh, okay. I also work in the writers rooms for artists like David Guetta and Selena Gomez. Yeah, it had to be a hell of an experience. But how does collaborating with such artists compare to creating your own music? 

Kid Souf 41:46
I 

want to say I like the distance that I got in those situations. Mm hmm. And I also really like the lack of distance that I get to have with mine. So I explain that further in that, like the distance part is again, like until you're like in the room with the artists like you, it, you're just sending it off to an A&R like that. It can be a whole pact. And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. You're writing. We would go together and do these camps. We would sit for 12, 14, 17 hours and do song after song after song after song, and then send out a pack. At the end of the night. There would be like four or five producers, like eight writers, and we'd be been all different studios throughout the same building. And at the end of the night, these like three or 4:00 in the morning, we'd all get together, listen to all the songs that I wrote and made. Each person makes like six songs, and then they decide, Okay, these four or five are the best. We'll send these four or five to the A&R person. And it's kind of like we had fun that night. We did a good job. I do. We got paid whatever, you know what I mean? It's kind of like here. And so there's really no pressure behind that. And I really like that again. There's probably no pressure behind my own project necessarily, but I am funding the studio time. I am funding like the I am like, you know what I mean? So it's like there's a little bit more pressure and also has to go out and represent me. So the but because of that, I also get while I'm writing, I'm like, you know, like with waterproof mascara, it was like, this song feels very black and gold. The song feels very. So I had like went out and bought Versace sunglasses because I was like, these these represent what this song sounds like so much to me. And like, I'm like wearing them and like every photoshoot for the for the project. Oh, that's actually something funny. I like each, each song that I do for myself comes up with a specific color and image. And that image is something that I would like to keep for the whole of like the single release project. So with Loverboy, I was listening to it and, obviously, you know, Loverboy, the band, they have that like the album that working for the weekend is on. They have that iconic album cover and so it how do I do like a nod to that without copying them. And so we did the Loverboy outfit and I still have this I. 

Rich Bennett 44:25
I had a feeling about that because, well, I saw that I was like, Wait a minute, that's the pants. Yeah. 

Kid Souf 44:35
I'm glad you got the reference. I'm really. Yes, I did. You're the first person to pick up on that idea. 

Rich Bennett 44:40
I was like, That is pretty darn creative there. 

Kid Souf 44:45
We like to think so. 

Rich Bennett 44:48
So are there any and I know you're going to say already, but are there any artists or producers you dream of collaborating with in the future? Yes, I know. I know. Gaga. Yes. 

Kid Souf 45:00
I mean, no, actually, like I said this about her, she. She is someone that I am almost like I would never like to formally meet no stick in her hand. But like, I would never I don't know if I want to formally meet her because I kind of like to keep her as like God status. Right. But Miley Cyrus 100%. I would love to sit on a couch and write music with her, whether it goes on as a collaboration or as a project for her, whatever. I just want to sit there. I just want to be with her. She seems like a really, really cool vibe, 

producer wise. I really. Love. Like 

I love Max Martin. Max Martin is my Max's like, biggest influence, and so he has like a whole, okay, there's Max Martin then his math. MARTIN Because he he likes to add up all the different things that Max Martin does and kind of and do do do the math that Max Martin does with so many heads. So, yeah, I'd love to work with with him. I'd love to. There's so many people. But I think on a more immediate level, there's this producer that I found, I think like four or five days ago, and Sparky. 

Fantastic. Disco house music. Really? Oh, good. I was I was blown away and and just actually reached out to him yesterday. So hopefully we'll hear back about that. I'll be really great. Oh, you will Next project. 

Rich Bennett 46:30
You will definitely have doubt. So how has identifying as queer influence both your personal and musical journey and were there challenges in the music industry related to this aspect of your identity? 

Kid Souf 46:44
Yeah, surprisingly it's it's like weird because the landscape that we live in right now is so different. But when I was first getting started doing music professionally, I was in like cover bands and stuff. And the the company that I worked for, I had like, you know, one of the guys that worked with the owner very closely and I became friends and I was like, What is Mike's problem with me? And he's like, What is what is what? Why? Why does he not like me? Right? Or whatever. And he's very nice to my face, but then I just like, I don't get it. And he was like, the conversation is he kind of wants you to straighten up a little bit. And I was like, okay, that makes sense. Like I'm selling to, you know, these brides and stuff. Yeah. Like, you know, we want 

that, I guess. And so, yeah, I guess it was like there was a little bit of something there. But I think now I like to not necessarily like focus on things that happen to me and more focus on things that I got to put out because of it. And for now it's like I feel like because of that, there's community that I get to be a part of and and get to like make music for and, and dance with and, and work with and like kind of have like an unspoken collaboration. Even if we don't work together. Like there's a respect and an honor that I have for other queer artists because I know they've had those negative experiences, but now I get to create positive experiences around it. 

Rich Bennett 48:18
So what advice would you actually give to a young queer artist trying to break into the music scene? 

Kid Souf 48:25
Careless Do more like I, I, I think like set myself back years by being like, Oh, well, they're not going to like me or they're not going to like, you know, or they're going to think I'm, you know, too weird or whatever. Like they're and I didn't reach out and now I'm like kicking down doors, like. Please listen to me. 

So yeah, care less, do more. 

Rich Bennett 48:51
I love. 

Kid Souf 48:51
That. Just, just reach out, just send the email, Just go to the party. Go do 

you know and. I don't know. 

Rich Bennett 49:03
But you definitely have to write a book. 

Kid Souf 49:07
I would love to write a book. 

Rich Bennett 49:08
So. So as you reflect on your journey, is there a specific message or feeling you hope listeners take away from your music? 

Kid Souf 49:20
A couple of things. One, one of which would be 

that 

I think pop music requires you to maybe look past the surface. And I think with my story in particular and a lot of other people that make pop music that the songs that we make at face value don't have that emotional draw, but because it's not like a singer songwriter acoustic performance of it, but as you know now and and things, it's deep, deep, deep stuff. The stuff that this is about so so and allow yourself to enjoy pop music don't I would like for people to not be so pretentious about that. That's something that I deal with a lot in Philly. 

And then 

falls. Go stream waterproof mascara. That's what I want them. To take away from that. 

Rich Bennett 50:18
Actually. Yeah. I'm glad you mention that. So what about the EP? 

Kid Souf 50:22
There's another single called The One That Makes Me Cry. Okay. And that one is super dancey. 

That one comes out in October along with, like, this huge party that I'm throwing. 

Rich Bennett 50:35
In Philly. 

Kid Souf 50:36
Probably. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're in the Philadelphia area, come out to that, it's going to be called slash fest, the Friday the 13th Slasher Movie Music Festival. 

Rich Bennett 50:45
My daughter just mentioned that to me. She said the junior there at Hoover 30th is on her Friday. This year was like. 

Kid Souf 50:54
I did it. I did it once before in Delaware. The studio down there in September 18th, it was 2019, and then the pandemic happened. And now I think we're pretty significantly out of the pandemic in a way that we can start there. And big events again. And this one's going to be a big Friday, the 13th slash industry music festival. Yeah, slash fest. And then I have a single coming out associated with that. Oh, the one that makes me cry. And then party favorites comes out November 3rd. And that is the last song that's a waterfall release schedule. So it's the last song. And also like the thing that caps off the year. 

Rich Bennett 51:34
So what's next for kids South? 

Kid Souf 51:36
Oh. So much. Now I get to I'm putting all of my like therapy songs right now. Right? Do you left me Scars like Party Favors, all of that stuff. So we get to kind of just step into confidence, step into sexy, step into having a good time, step into maybe some love stuff. I might be putting something together for Valentine's Day, like lots of lots of fun, danceable, hopefully a lot more disco stuff. Yeah, that's nice. 

Rich Bennett 52:10
Yeah. Where are you? So when are you going to start touring for all this? 

Kid Souf 52:14
I don't have a tour planned for. For this project. 

Rich Bennett 52:18
Oh, really? 

Kid Souf 52:19
Yeah. No. 

Rich Bennett 52:20
So that means that if somebody from Harvard agrees, calls you to come play at the Star Center or something like that, you're available. 

Kid Souf 52:28
Yeah. Yeah, very much so. Very much so. I'll come down with my dogs. 

Rich Bennett 52:33
Hmm. So anybody you know better yet, Derek, I know you're going to be listening to this. You got to end. Make it happen, man. Make it. Give me a call. Well, you have to come down this way because number one, first of all, before if you come down here to perform before. So you and I have to get together just a jam on all types of different music. I've been doing some smoked old fashioneds. 

Kid Souf 52:59
I love that you got me there. 

Rich Bennett 53:02
We we actually do. Once a month we do our it started off as beer night where a group of us would get together and try different beers. Then it became we had new neighbors come in, it became beer night babysitting group and then now it's now we just decided to make it beer, bourbon, barbecue. 

Kid Souf 53:19
I like that. Oh, yeah. Alliteration, I guess. 

Rich Bennett 53:22
So. The last one we did was we did smoked man or smoked old fashioned. This time, actually, the third. So we're doing our smoked Manhattans. 

Kid Souf 53:31
Oh, yeah, I got. 

Rich Bennett 53:35
I got a lot. 

Kid Souf 53:36
You've got beer. Bourbon and barbecue at the cafeteria Catholics. We got. 

Rich Bennett 53:42
Women. No, I'm not Catholic. So 

got. So one of the things I like to ask everybody, because I'm sure you've been interviewed several times, 

but out of all the people that have interviewed you, is there anything that you were that an interview or host has never asked you that you wish a host would have asked you? And if so, what would be that question? What would be your answer? 

Kid Souf 54:13
Oh, that's a great question. It'd probably be that question. And I would say. 

Rich Bennett 54:18
That's not unless somebody already tried. 

Kid Souf 54:20
That. 

No, I think 

honestly. You ask like a couple questions throughout this one about like the meanings of songs and that is something that means a lot to me 

about the songs that I don't get to talk about often. And that's really fun. 

But maybe. 

What's. 

What's your secret project that you keep in the background just for yourself to listen to? 

Rich Bennett 55:00
Well, you can't tell that because then it wouldn't be a secret. 

Kid Souf 55:03
Well, I mean, you're still not going to hear it, but it's my whole jazzy feel that I keep and I listen to in the car women What? And I have a whole jazzy to. 

Rich Bennett 55:10
Get out of here. 

Kid Souf 55:12
I hired I was the coolest thing ever. I went into this local jazz bar called Time and they're fantastic and they're and they had this band called the Living Sample that was regular. Every Tuesday night they would do a live band, open mic. So you'd walk up on stage and you'd say, My song has these chords. It's generally this rhythm, play it. And they would play it. And I had written a bunch of songs to YouTube type beats at the time. I was so I was very I was like 19. So I was like in there. But I had a really great fake and I, I went in there and I said, This is the chords I worked out, like the chords from the YouTube, and I'd play it and they played it better than I'd ever heard it. And it was this jazz fusion sound, and I gave them four chords and they must have played like 400 over the course of that song, just like Variations and the Interval. And I was like, You're hired. Let's go to the studio next week. Wow. And we went into the studio the next week and recorded a whole heap. 

Rich Bennett 56:12
You see, that's something I would love to see around here. Some jazz clubs. 

Kid Souf 56:16
Yeah, they're fun. They're really fun. 

Rich Bennett 56:19
And I just and I would just I love listening to jazz and above all else again, I love watching the people playing it, but I think it's something that's missing. And jazz is not dying. I think jazz is growing. 

Kid Souf 56:35
Absolutely. I think I think it has to like what they do really well is not necessarily just play like the classic standards, but they're they say, here's generally like, you know, let's say it's, I don't know, like Thunder Road. Yeah, it's not a jazz song, but they'll do a theme and variation of it and then improvise over it for 10 minutes and the whole and go based on crowd reaction. So if people start freaking out when the trumpet starts playing, that trumpet solo goes on for 32 hours and he just destroys it. And people are cheering and screaming and it's like everyone's drunk and it's like, it's like a like a crazy, like punk band. Yeah, but at a jazz bar and they're playing phenomenal musicianship that people are just like, I, I can't even believe my ears right now. 

Rich Bennett 57:23
And that's the thing, because where else can you go and just watch guys get up there and just basically jam? 

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's that jazz is cool. Yeah. That the blues I think is the only two types of music where you could just get a group of musicians that don't even know each other, sit down and just start playing together. You would swear they were together for years? Yep. 

Kid Souf 57:48
It's pure musicianship. 

Rich Bennett 57:49
Oh, yeah. Well, kid, I want to thank you so much, guys. I hope you make it down this way. And everybody makes sure that you check out waterproof mascara because you're going to love it. And Of course, when the EP comes out, you have to get it. 

Kid Souf 58:06
Oh, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 58:07
And something tells me that you're going to be seeing a book within the next five years coming out from Yeah. 

Kid Souf 58:13
I'm a for writing the. 

Rich Bennett 58:14
First, the first one of five books. 

Kid Souf 58:17
So 

absolutely the. Title, it's the first thing is Conversations with Rich and James. 

Rich Bennett 58:25
I love it and I want to thank you so much. Continued success. Keep it up. Don't don't stop me and just keep putting it out there. Because I said at the beginning, your music kicks ass. 

Kid Souf 58:40
Thank you so much. I really. 

Rich Bennett 58:41
Appreciate you. I know you said that, you know, you made, you know, about collaborating with Lady Gaga. You wouldn't want to. But I have a funny feeling she's going to call you and say, Kid, I want you to perform on stage. 

Kid Souf 58:52
I like all of your funny feelings. You've got great, funny feelings. 

Rich Bennett 58:56
I'm an optimist, man. Well, I can. 

Kid Souf 58:57
Yeah, absolutely. And I have. Your lips, God's ears. 

Rich Bennett 59:01
I'm here for it. I can see it now. 

Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears, featuring kid self pure boom. 

Kid Souf 59:14
I'll put together. The whole festival. There we go. 

Rich Bennett 59:16
There. Works for me. 

Kid Souf 59:18
Yeah. I love that. 

Rich Bennett 59:20
Thanks a lot. 

Kid Souf 59:21
Of course. Of course. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure. 

Rich Bennett 59:23
My pleasure, man.