Larry O'Nan on Finding Freedom Through Stewardship

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation, where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. I'm your host, Rich Bennett, and today I'm thrilled to welcome a special guest, Larry O'Nan. Larry is a passionate advocate for biblical stewardship. With over five decades of experience in ministry and consulting, his journey has taken him from 18 impactful years at Campus Crusade for Christ, where he led fund development initiatives that raised over 150 million. You heard me right over $150 million for global ministry to serving as vice President of Stewardship Strategies at Management Development Associates, Advisor Ministries, and raising tens of millions more. He's the author of the seminal work Giving Yourself Away an Intentional Living and Giving, where he shares his rich insights on living purposely and generously. So beyond his consulting and speaking, Larry has also made a mark by teaching biblical values to children through engaging stories as president of R&D and production. And I could tell you all right away, Larry, he's going to be coming on again, because we were talking before we started recording. And this man is simply amazing with everything that he's involved in and everything he does. And I, I just know there's so much that you all can learn from him. So, first of all, welcome, Larry. How you doing? 

Larry O'Nan 1:36
Ridge. It's great to be a part of your show today. Thank you for inviting me on. 

Rich Bennett 1:41
Oh, my. My pleasure. So I want I want to talk about the book first. Intentional Living and Giving. Can you actually share for us the personal journey or movement that inspired you to write it? 

Larry O'Nan 1:51
Well, there is quite a story to this because I had no intentions of writing a book on this subject. In fact, the book came after. 

Rich Bennett 1:57
Oh, wow. 

Larry O'Nan 1:58
Probably a decade of working on things. Here's what happened to me. You know, life sometimes throws people curves. And I was into something that I loved. In fact, this was back going back, I'm 80 years of age, so I've got to go back a number of years. I was in charge of a large music activity in Dallas, Texas, and there was 80,000 people in the Cotton Bowl. And I was in charge of the music of the entire week, but I had a lot of music groups there in the city. And during one the first night of this event with 80,000 people, I heard an announcement that there was a new person put in charge and directing the music ministry of this organization. And I learned that night I had lost my job. Because that was what I was doing. Now there was a guy that wasn't, but rightfully so. He was moving and he had a lot more experience in music than I did. But I realized that night and hearing that announcement that I no longer had work to do after that week was over. I was just out of work. So, you know, instead 

Rich Bennett 3:00
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 3:00
say it was a an earthshaking experience. I loved putting music groups together. I has a background in theater, arts and music and all that kind of stuff. So where I enjoyed putting together the direction side and was creating something from nothing and put them on tour, I could sing in a group, but I wasn't. That didn't motivate me because once you memorize what you're singing, you're going to sing it over and over and over again. That's what a road show is. 

Rich Bennett 3:29
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 3:30
I lost my job that night and I realized that when my boss caught me later on, he says, I should have cut to you earlier. You should have not heard this from the sage. I'm really sorry. This is the way it came out. But he said, We'll find something else for you. Well, there's something else happened eight weeks later, and I was asked to go into an office of the vice president of the organization. And he said, Larry, I've got a problem here and I don't know what to do with it. Could you help me out? And I said, Well, what's the problem? I don't know if I can help you or not. He 

Rich Bennett 4:03
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 4:03
says, Come to my bathroom now. This is the hotel 

Rich Bennett 4:06
Huh? 

Larry O'Nan 4:07
room converted to his office. So every office had its bathroom and he walked into his bathroom and pulled the shower curtain on the on the old bathtub back. And there was 28 boxes of pledge cards representing $1.7 million worth of pledges that had been taken at the same Cotton Bowl event that I had been leading the music on 12 weeks earlier. He said, Larry, I brought the pledge cards back, but they've not been touched since they went into my bathtub. Could you take these pledge cards and see if there's anything you can do with collecting the pledges that were made for the international side of that organization? And so that day I was introduced to fund development. I had no idea what it was. I didn't even know. I mean, we literally I had one guy that showed up early because he was successful and that missionary organization had to raise your own personal support. And this guy had raised it, showed up early. He had a background, a nuclear subs with the Navy. 

Rich Bennett 5:10
What? 

Larry O'Nan 5:11
Well what he was doing either he just wanted to go to work and the two of us took those boxes out of his office and started on open them and said, What in the world did we get ourselves into? Well, the long story short, with nine months later, we'd collected over $2 million of funding from those pledges. We learned we started figuring out how to follow them up and got in. 

Rich Bennett 5:36
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 5:36
Subjects that I never thought I was going to get into. Now, here I was, eight weeks or 12 weeks out losing a job, and now I was into a job that no one. There was no guidebook. There was absolutely no directions other than good luck and hope you can make this work. And let's talk later and see what progress you're making. What 

Rich Bennett 5:58
Wow. 

Larry O'Nan 5:58
I see a lot of times in life is what we see as a a turning point, as a interruption to life or a right turn that we were not expecting. Those 

Rich Bennett 6:11
Mm 

Larry O'Nan 6:11
times 

Rich Bennett 6:12
hmm. 

Larry O'Nan 6:12
can be the greatest blessing if you're ready to accept it that way. And that's what happened to me, because I was not going to burn my bridges. I was not mad at people from losing my music love job. I just thought, this is strange. I've got to figure out what life is myself. And that led me into this area of fund raising. Now, fund raising a rich. Is an exchange. And so we're in a political season right now when we're making this recording, using fundraising going on all the time. I will send you a hat. You send me money, I will send you a mug. I will send you. If you send the money, I will. If you send that today, we will quadruple the number because I got a person that's going to pledge. And if you do this, you're going to help me get more money and I'm going to send you another sticker for your car. I'm going to send you something in the health care business. You'll get there's programs out there. If you send money to St Jude Hospital, you'll get a blanket or a T-shirt. 

Rich Bennett 7:15
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 7:15
It's all in exchange. So you may or may not believe in the cause. You will. You often want what you're going to get. So it's an exchange that goes on. Now, there's nothing biblically and spiritual about exchanges, but it's a very slow way of raising money. If you go play golf with me today for X, Y, Z, you're going to get dinner and you're going to get a trophy. 

It got more. 

Rich Bennett 7:44
You see public television and public radio do 

Larry O'Nan 7:47
It is. That is fund raising. It's an exchange. 

Rich Bennett 7:51
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 7:51
There's a tit for tat that always comes in that experience. Well, I was doing pretty good at this. I was learning how to collect money. I was doing my fund raising. I was doing it well enough that they invited me to a meeting of a number of people that were coming in to hear of consultants. The organization was wanting to raise $1,000,000,000 for international advancement, and the they hired a good firm to say, Can we even do this? If you're going to be doing fundraising is a big nature. You've got to do some feasibility studies. Can you actually achieve your goal? And they the consultants came in and they said you can achieve the goal. But there's one caveat. If you do not broaden the base and teach people the abundance and the blessing of giving as a Christian commitment to just being involved in the cause, you're going to create havoc because you're going to see people seeing you compete for the money they think is out there. But if you open up and entire new acreage of potential givers, then everybody is going to be blessed. 

Rich Bennett 9:05
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 9:05
Because there is 

Rich Bennett 9:06
Huh? 

Larry O'Nan 9:07
one apple instead of one tree. You're providing them a whole orchard of trees and you don't care where they get the money because you're opening up the whole orchard. Well, the organization. 

Rich Bennett 9:18
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 9:19
Appreciated the concept. That was not the bad thing, but they didn't want to start another emphasis in the organization, and the consultants were pretty firm. You're not going to achieve your goal unless you do this. Well, there was some high level discussions and disagreements going on, and one guy in the room said, Let's just assign this to Larry and maybe he can figure out what's meant by this stewardship thing. And I was the lowest guy on the totem pole in the room. I just was way down there. I was successful. They knew that we were doing well, but I was unproven and what we were really into, we were. 

Rich Bennett 9:56
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 9:57
And I wrote down on a pad of paper Rich. Figure out lifestyle, biblical stewardship. And then I wrote at the bottom of the page, You got the freedom to fail 

because I had learned in doing what I was doing that if I did try things, I was going to fail at not doing it. And my, my, my leaders would say, Larry, you got the freedom to fail. There is no guidebook to this. If it doesn't work, you can just go tweak it again and try something else. I really learned that the freedom to fail gives you the freedom in life to try things. And I wrote down on that pad of paper, I've got the freedom to fail. I thought this could be a real failure because I have no clue what you've just assigned me to. Now, what it did in the room is it moved the topic into other areas and they got rid of the discussion for the time being. And I was left with come back and tell us what a stewardship mentality might look like. Nobody in the room knew what what the guys were actually talking about. And the consultants 

Rich Bennett 11:05
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 11:06
didn't know either. They just said, if you don't teach generosity, you're going to create competition and you don't want competition. You want many people to be blessed and you're going to be blessed as well because everybody is going to be cheering everybody on. It was probably four or five weeks later that I said, okay, I've got to get a team of my people together. I believe always in working by teams. I don't like the person that always does it himself. I did this, I did this, I did this. If it's not for a team working together, you will probably not accomplish anything. So I worked with four or five of my directors that I had brought together. I was creating a little team of guys that were really with it. And we started working on What does the Bible say about stewardship? Now most people that are listening today say stewardship means money. If you say stewardship in a church, they mean it's the money. Sunday. Pastors hate speaking on stewardship. Why? Because they got to talk about money. It's the budget season. 

Rich Bennett 12:10
Okay. 

Larry O'Nan 12:11
The money. Stewardship really has very little to do about money. It is one of 100 things that you can give money. But stewardship the word steward and this is where I think the key part comes in is a steward is responsible for managing the affairs of somebody else. 

Rich Bennett 12:31
Right? 

Larry O'Nan 12:32
That's what a steward is. Now, if you get on an airplane today and fly United Airlines, you're going to find some happy people and welcoming you on board, looking at your ticket, making decisions, 

Rich Bennett 12:42
Mm hmm. 

Larry O'Nan 12:42
walking up and down the aisle. They're not there to make you feel good, except they know making you feel good, which means you won't freak out and you won't cause a problem for United Airlines. They're also capable of probably putting you in your place pretty darn fast if they have to. They've been trained to. 

Rich Bennett 13:03
Oh, yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 13:04
They've been trained to take care and protect the assets of United Airlines and the 737 aircraft that you're in. They report to the captain and that captain has got one job. And this airplane with these passengers. So a school is working on behalf of the United or Delta or Northwest or you name it. And they are there to protect the assets and the interests of that airline. And keeping you calm, cool and collected in the backside of the plane. So that you get off the plane and you move on to your next stop. They give you a Coke and a Sprite and a Peanuts or whatever they're serving to keep. 

Rich Bennett 13:46
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 13:47
To keep you sedated. Basically, they're trying to keep calm, people calm, but they're doing it. They're paid by the airlines to do that. That's a steward and we call them steward. 

Rich Bennett 13:59
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 14:00
When you think about steward in life, you've got to go back to the Old Testament, the painter, to the first five chapters of the Old Testament are the Jewish historic writings of the Book of Moses. And that is the core teachings of the Jewish faith. Even today is those five books. And then they run into song. They go into other books as well in the Old Testament. But those are the core. When you go into that core, you find out that God placed us here to be stewards of his stuff. And when you realize that your that's your purpose in life is to take care of his stuff. You're not here by accident. You're here on purpose to take care of what God created. The Old Testament Scripture said, God is 

in fact King David said in a prayer. You are in charge of everything. Everything in heaven on earth is yours. And you are in charge of it all. And we are here to help you. When we start to see that we are here with a purpose in life, it starts to wake us up every morning to say, How do I fulfill my purpose? Well, when I got into this, 

it radically changed my viewpoint of fundraising because I didn't want to be a fund raiser anymore. I wanted to be a fund developer and I wanted to. 

Rich Bennett 15:30
Oh. 

Larry O'Nan 15:31
Nerves and relationships with people that wanted to be involved in our cause. And I was no longer trying to get money out of them. I was inviting them to participate in the cause by using their money. I stopped giving away gifts. I started. I stopped giving away things. That doesn't mean I don't give them a prayer card and I don't do an exchange here. 

Rich Bennett 15:53
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 15:54
But the goal was not to see how I could extract money out of you that didn't want to give it. I was there to help you participate in a cause through your resources. And it radically changed as I started to develop the principles that you find in intentional living and giving and giving yourself away. Back in the eighties, when I wrote it, it was all about helping people begin to realize who they really are and live by the principles that are outlined in Old Testament Scripture. And then as you start to learn those five basic principles, then there's application of how you use those to live life daily. Now, in the book, for instance, there is a chapter out of 17 chapters. There's one chapter on money. I think it's chapter 14 or 15. It's way in the back. The book is not about money, even though that when you see a book that you say the word stewardship, your mind goes to money. 

Rich Bennett 16:56
Okay? 

Larry O'Nan 16:56
I'm saying to you, Rich, you've got life to live today. What are you going to do with what God's already given to you? It's not your life. He's entrusted 

Rich Bennett 17:06
Mm 

Larry O'Nan 17:06
you 

Rich Bennett 17:06
hmm. 

Larry O'Nan 17:06
to do something with it. And how can you maximize what God's already given to you? So the whole book concept is helping you as a person and individual live a life today that is meaningful and helpful to your objective. Your goal as a steward and not only as God owed at all. God expects you to give hilariously. And that's the second principle glorious. 

Rich Bennett 17:35
Okay. 

Larry O'Nan 17:35
And that's a strange word to say. Hilarious. Although God loves a cheerful giver. We all have heard that little verse. God loves a cheerful giver, you know? Well, a cheerful giver. The word in the Greek is hilarious. Hilarious is a word that relates to the sun. It means to cause to shine like the sun. 

So when you see here little stats, those are mirrors that are collecting sun and transferring them to electricity. 

Helio is the word that relates to the sun. So God wants us to give as the sun gives off, heat and light. That's all that we're made to do is to give. Now, can 

Rich Bennett 18:17
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 18:17
you be generous and happy in doing it? And as Scripture tells you, don't give, don't give begrudgingly. You're not the necessity because God wants you to give hilariously. So you give as a son, gives of life, you're giving. Well, then you go to other principles. God wants you me to ask. A few weeks ago, Rich, I was speaking at a men's fellowship meeting and there was about 30 men there, I guess something like that. At the end of the morning, everybody got up and left. Left all the tables with their plates on the table. And two guys who were picking up after 30 other people and I was picking up my stuff and I thought, you know, all they would have had to say at the end of that breakfast is, man, before you leave, could you bus your table, pick it up, And if you could take off the tablecloths and help us do this, 5 minutes of your time today will make a big difference in how fast we can clean up. That was me. That is asking if you don't ask. You're not going to receive. 

Rich Bennett 19:22
You're going to write. 

Larry O'Nan 19:23
And so you'll find many nonprofits today. I've dealt with this before when we can't get people involved. Well, are you asking people to be involved? I chair a nonprofit called Santa Claus, Inc., and we have 98% of our entire in we have 2.2 employees helping 220,000 kids a year. 

Rich Bennett 19:46
You only have two employees for. 

Larry O'Nan 19:47
Who employs, well, maybe four employees if you've got two guys that run the forklift part time. 

Rich Bennett 19:55
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 19:55
They had to take off stuff up with big trucks. Okay. so we got these, you know, total four people and we are helping 220,000 kids a year because we've got hundreds of volunteers. We're happy. We're asking people all the time, can you come in and dedicate a day, a week or can you come in and. 

Rich Bennett 20:15
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 20:15
Like this. When people know they're needed and you ask them, they're very rarely going to say no unless you're asking them to do something that they do not know how to do. 

Rich Bennett 20:26
Yeah. I think you have a lot of organizations. They look for people, but they don't know how to. 

Larry O'Nan 20:32
They don't know how to ask. 

Rich Bennett 20:33
There's people when they 

Larry O'Nan 20:34
And that's the same way with the resources to fund the organizations. They talk about their financial needs, but they don't know how to effectively ask people to be involved. 

Rich Bennett 20:43
write. 

Larry O'Nan 20:44
So asking is a part of that. And the scripture teaches us ask and you shall receive that your joy might be made complete. Well, if if I ask and you respond, my joy goes up and your joy goes up because now you're being meaningful. The 

Rich Bennett 21:01
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 21:01
other principle comes into that play is it is the principles of farming, because, you know, in the Old Testament and New Testament, you were into a farming culture. Everything was grown. So they understood farming much better than we do today. If you ask a kid today, where does milk from plant come from? He thinks it comes from a grocery store. They don't know that. He doesn't even know there's a cow involved, you know? That's immaturity. Story. And now you can buy almond milk and you're really confused because almonds don't make milk. What? 

Rich Bennett 21:38
I know I'm really confused because I'm drinking oat milk like. 

Larry O'Nan 21:41
And you're thinking how the world doesn't come out of jail. That doesn't work. But I think the principle behind understanding the the law of the harvest is as you plant, you're going to reap what you planted. Now, you can manipulate that to say, if you give to me, I'm going to make sure you get rich. That's that's, that's pitiful. That's maybe not manipulation, but the law is the harvest. Say when you plant and you care for your implanting, you're going to eventually reap a harvest to give you a much more full of what you put into the ground. The farmer knows that when he plants wheat, there's going to come a time in the season when he's going to be harvesting volumes of wheat. 

Much more so than what he put in the ground, The law of the harvest fits into here. So what I've done is in the book of intentional giving and receiving is I've laid out these principles where you as an individual can get a hold of them. The first nine chapters are about the principles. The following nine chapters of the book is How do you live by those principles? How does life unfold for you? So it's a two part book. It's theological, if you want to call it that up front. But really what it was happening is I started developing these with my team. We started implementing we started raising far more money than we ever dreamed we were could raise because we were now involving stewards in something that they wanted to see happen rather than what we wanted to see happen. We were no longer satisfied with asking for small gifts. We decided to start asking for significantly larger gifts and by significant, I'm talking multiple millions of dollars that were getting. 

Rich Bennett 23:36
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 23:38
And it was based on just the capacity of the steward. It was not based because they were more valuable than the person. They gave a small amount. But we were challenging people to be meaningfully and generously involved at their level of participation. So I over my career, I've seen people give $48 million to an organization. I know a guy up in Canada that before he passed away he had done $200 million and he just felt like he was a good steward of what God was leading him to do. His business was very profitable in a particular field, and he knew that God had blessed him and he wanted to distribute what God was doing. He was living comfortably, but he was not living ostentatiously because he was happy. He would never fly first class. Irritated his wife to death because she wanted more comfortable seats. But he just could not let himself waste money in first class. So he made her said in coach. Yeah, I that was a mindset of that particular person. Now I don't believe there's anything wrong with sitting in first class either, but in his mind he was being a good steward and he didn't want to waste money in first class while he. 

Rich Bennett 24:54
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 24:54
VOLVED in getting close to $200 million away in a 20 year period. Now that is this the opposite of a person that says, here's $20 a month to help the pregnancy resource Center in my city, because I want to help women that are in a point of crisis and I can help them in this way. So is it $20 or $2,200 million? The amount doesn't make any difference to the story. The fact of it is, is I am joining in a meaningful way where I can help make a difference in somebody else's life. And that's the whole goal of intentional living and getting rich is to help people get there. 

Rich Bennett 25:32
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 25:33
I feel like many people in fact, I saw some years ago I was with a probably 60 year old woman. Her husband had been a pastor for 30 years and she was almost in tears as she never had figure it out in life what her real purpose was. She knew what her husband's purpose was, but she was missing the fact because she didn't know that she was a steward assisting him and doing other things. I said, You've raised two boys. You've you've done all these things that your purpose is being fulfilled. And she looked at me as 

Rich Bennett 26:09
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 26:09
I didn't see that as purpose. I just saw that as work. I said no. 

Rich Bennett 26:14
Really? 

Larry O'Nan 26:16
What you were was a hand. You were joining hands with another person to make ministry successful in your city. And there was a joy that came over for the first time, she says. That's been my purpose. And I missed no. One what it was. 

We think something. 

Rich Bennett 26:34
Wow. 

Larry O'Nan 26:34
It's got to be. Well, I mean, we you know, in your world of war, if you like to be Santa Claus, you think your purpose is Santa Claus? No, that's an expression of you giving yourself away. And you could pull Santa Claus. 

Rich Bennett 26:48
Exactly. 

Larry O'Nan 26:48
I can't pull it off. I have no beard. Okay. 

But I've got two other friends who have got beards, and I use them all the time to be Santa Claus, contemporary Santa Claus. They even dress in Bermuda shorts and Hawaiian shirts in the summer. So. But. 

Rich Bennett 27:07
That's the next thing. If I could keep my beard. 

Larry O'Nan 27:10
Well, that's what I mean. These guys, they've got their beard really down and they got costumes for 

Rich Bennett 27:14
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 27:15
the year. You know, Santa Claus still way Rebs wears red at Christmas. That's what their view is. 

Rich Bennett 27:22
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 27:22
I. He's got more to it than that. But that Rich, that's what you know, that's the whole book. If you want to add an essence that's is helping a person come out of depression and wondering why they're here and confused if there's any purpose. I think people that commit suicide other than probably extreme mental health issues are doing so because they see there's no reason to be here and it's time to check out and they will take the easy way out. Robin Fulfilling the purpose that they were designed to have in the first place. So the whole book is just built around there. But I didn't jump into writing the book. I was starting to utilize this in a very practical sense and resourcing missions. And for then I wrote that first book, Giving Yourself Away in the early eighties. They the giving yourself away and the intentional living and giving are parallels in many respects. It's for two different generations. In the eighties, it was a different form of book. It flowed a different way, and I was advised by my publishers to take the concepts of their and package it for the Zs and the millennial generations because they're desperately looking for an answer. They do not know what this content is. And if you could frame people up to be what gods really wanted them to be, help them get freed up and 

Rich Bennett 28:52
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 28:52
I really wrote Intentional Living and Giving as a result of a conference I was attending in Ireland and the guys were saying, We don't have any content that really helps people. We need help in knowing or to direct people to understand what this subject is. And I was sitting there thinking, It's Larry, you don't really want to do it, but you need to do it. You need to get it back into that content and bring it out again in principle for another generation that cannot find it. So that was three years ago, and I came back saying, okay, I've got to bite the bullet and go back to content because I've been teaching this same concepts in 30 or 40 different organizations that I consulted with for 35 years because I was a process consultant with Christian non-profit organizations and humanitarian organizations and higher education, stuff like that. And I would work at the board level and I would work with the officers that were in charge of development, and we would structured their fund development to where it was generous, giving focused rather than exchange focused. 

Rich Bennett 30:05
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 30:05
And so I did that for 30 years after I was with the Ministry of Campus Crusade for 20 years. So, you know, my career was really around that. But I never would have got into that unless I'd been fired for music. So you go back to another experience and you think, okay, that didn't make sense. You know, ten years ago, Rich, my wife, died of a lethal blast from a brain tumor. Now, you know, everybody kind of gasped. They feel badly for me. And I look at it and I think, no, she got her full fulfillment in life. She got the best end of the deal. Now, I had to go through 18 months of dealing with that reality because glioblastoma is a terminal disease. There is no way out of a gate. Leo Blast stoma, You're going to die from it sooner or later that you may die. 

Rich Bennett 30:54
Never heard of it. 

Larry O'Nan 30:55
Well, glioblastoma is what Beau Biden died from. John McCain. 

Rich Bennett 31:00
Oh. 

Larry O'Nan 31:01
Ted Kennedy. 

All of these guys, they say they got brain tumors. That's what we'll hear 

Rich Bennett 31:07
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 31:07
in the market. They they they died of a glioblastoma multiforme, a brain tumor. This. 

Rich Bennett 31:15
Okay. 

Larry O'Nan 31:15
The tumor of a tumor is an encased piece of malignancy in the sense it's got a encasement around it, but a glioblastoma is like also a jellyfish in that it has tentacles. The grow out of that encasement down into the webs of the brain. So you can never, ever get all of a glioblastoma out because of the tentacles and you can remove it. So in the case of Beau Biden, he was he did really well for five years. Because 

Rich Bennett 31:49
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 31:49
after his first surgery, he became, you know, of it got into government. He was quite involved. He was being traded all the time for gay glioblastoma. No one ever thought about that. But when it comes back. 

Rich Bennett 32:02
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 32:03
Back with a vengeance. 

So, you know, these guys that you hear about, you know, Senator McCain had his e-mail blast almost over the right, I think the frontal lobe. And he had he had surgery. So you'd see this Band-Aid over his bump. 

Rich Bennett 32:21
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 32:22
Then it came back and he died very quickly. When it when it comes back, it's usually more events. And many people it mostly affects young women between 30 and 45. But there's always cases where it's men and women both. And the illustrations that I gave you, that's what these famous politicians had. 

Rich Bennett 32:45
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 32:45
But when you find out you've got a glioblastoma, they will tell you this terminal disease is treated in this way. It is terminal from day one. There is no they do not have any options of solving the malignancy issue. Well, that's what my wife ended up with. And 18 months later, she got the better end of the deal. She changed addresses on me. Now there is a place where you could go into depression. Life is over. What do I do next? Oh, was me. I'm done. I don't know what to do. I'm going to go watch television and watch all the guns, you know, the Gunsmoke movies again and again. I mean, life can sometimes 

Rich Bennett 33:25
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 33:26
collapse on a person, but when you realize that even that experience could be your turning point to a new day and a new chapter of life, get up and find out what God still wants you to do because you are still a steward and he's got a purpose for you being here. So, you know, after about a month of kind of being in a state of a little bit of shock about that, I wasn't expecting this to happen. My question became, okay, I'm still the steward. I'm still to give myself away. My wife and I were strong believers in this, all these principles. And I said, I'm going to get up today and I'm going to start living life to the fullest. And if I've got ten or 15 or 20 years left, it doesn't really the time is not critical, but I need to maximize life today. So the word as I came working on the book, Rich, I came to the word intentional and it. The book is called Intentional Living and Giving, but the word intentional is very critical to that. Can this morning you wake up and say to yourself, Today is a day that God's given me. What am I going to do to rejoice and be glad? And how am I going to help somebody else? How am I going to be maximized? And so you can move from a person in depression to a person that's thriving because, you know, every day you're doing something that you've been called to do. 

Rich Bennett 34:55
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 34:55
And that's where they are. That's why I'm so excited about getting people into this, is that they're going to get a new lease on life. 

Rich Bennett 35:03
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 35:04
So that's why, you know, and, you know, I'm involved in a lot of other things. I got the children's book side of things you mentioned earlier on with Andy and I share four different boards of nonprofit organizations. I serve as an executive pastor for the church I'm a part of because I'm doing stuff that nobody else knows what to do or how to do it. Legal and maneuvering, the insurance policies, all the stuff that goes on that you've got to have the existing. And I'm just saying every day I've got to make it maximized as long as I've got health enough to do it, I got to keep on doing it. If I lost my health, I got to readjust what I do. But I still am responsible to do it because I'm still a steward breathing air. And as long as I'm breathing air, I'm responsible for being a good, effective steward, taking care of his stuff, not my stuff. 

Rich Bennett 36:02
Okay. So with everything that you do 

and 

because I think of I before we start recording, I told you how in the lines. 

Larry O'Nan 36:13
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 36:15
And I've been president of our local Lions Club forever. I want to say probably the past eight years. Whatever. But I had a mentor in there, and he taught me a lot about the, you know, the lines club way. Are you mentoring anybody? With you've all the different things you do, because to me, you would be a great mentor. I would think. 

Larry O'Nan 36:41
Well, I do this in certain areas. For instance, I was a church board chair of the board for 20 years and. 

Rich Bennett 36:52
Okay. 

Larry O'Nan 36:53
I've chosen to never do that again. But I'm mentoring the chairman of the board that's there now. 

I'm helping him know how to run a board in my role as a. I still do some consulting with some a few nonprofits, but I do a lot of consulting with pastors on helping the churches change their governance models. Governance is the behind the scenes work that goes on to make a church effective. So today I'll be spending 2 hours with a 30 or 49 year old guy that's a new pastor and it's a mentoring time because he calls me Pops and I gather him about once a year and he's looking forward to it because it's a time that he can dump a load of hay on me and we can talk about issues and it doesn't affect anybody. 

Rich Bennett 37:46
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 37:47
Church. We're not going to meet in his office. We're going to a restaurant. Nobody knows me. If they saw me talking to him, they would know who I am. And so, yeah, I still do in that I still mentor. I've got people internationally that I mentor. We'll be in touch periodically by phone. These are guys that I've mentored for 25 to 35 years and they still they call me the great grandfather of fund development for Europe. And I you know, and so I get back. 

Rich Bennett 38:14
I love that. 

Larry O'Nan 38:15
Guys. One's in Ireland, one's in the sweat and Switzerland. One's in Holland. I've got a friend over in the Philippines in the same way. So I try to continue to participate in their life, not because I'm telling them what to do. But it's almost like it's iron sharpening. Iron and we're rubbing. 

Rich Bennett 38:36
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 38:37
Each other. And we're talking about life and we're talking about implications. And there is always the underbelly, the dark side of any good thing has got an underbelly. And sometimes it's the underbelly of where you really need to be able to unload and process it. And decide how you can deal with it. So I still am doing that kind of stuff. And if I'm working with a church in their governance, I stay in touch with that pastor for at least a couple of years because it's a new way of thinking. And I'm helping him guide a group of people that may not know the difference between management and governance. And there is a significant difference. And many times organizations are confused because they're trying to blend the two together and governing an organization and manage it an organization or two different tasks. 

Rich Bennett 39:34
Oh, yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 39:36
And in your role, say, in a Lions Club? I was in I was heavily involved for a decade with Cortez. We were always confused by when we were governing and when we were managing. Because we're small and we're we're kind of doing everything. A church, a school board, a typical school board is a chaotic mess because it's doing it's managing a superintendent on the fly with no knowledge of what he really should be doing, other than they're probably employed. They're probably voted on to be on a school board and they want to voice their opinion. 

They should be governing him and holding him accountable to manage the system of school districts and stay out of managing. That is really critical. You know, Santa Claus, Inc., I chair a governing board and I let one person decide who would be hired and fired and what the programs are. And that's the executive director. We never get into that. Now, when I come in to volunteer, I'm working under her not because I'm a chairman of the board, but because I'm volunteering in the management side of things. And periodically I come in and volunteer like everybody else. But then I'm not the chairman of the board brain. I am doing a job that she wants me to accomplish. So you've got to help. And even with the nonprofit kids that I serve with, there's a difference between having a board meeting and governance. 

Rich Bennett 41:08
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 41:08
Implementing how the organization's going to work management. So we need to be always saying, No, we won't do this, we will do that. There's there's ways to do it right. And I think I picked up on some of those principles and techniques so I can go in and help, you know, your Alliance Club from governance of management. That's not because I wrote the book. It's just because I've got some skills in that area. 

Rich Bennett 41:34
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 41:34
But, Rich, I'm the first one to tell you I will. I choose in life to live by my strengths, not live by my weaknesses. 

So if you want me to come and look at your financials, you picked up the wrong person. 

Rich Bennett 41:50
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 41:50
Because I'm numbers are not my favorite thing. Now I can do it, but I'm always tired at the end of looking at your numbers. 

Rich Bennett 41:59
Say what? 

Larry O'Nan 42:00
So when I know the rich years ago, I came in contact with what they call the Clifton Street Finders process. It's a Gallup organization, string finders that's out of Omaha, and street finders helps you identify in a very practical, scientific way what your five greatest strengths are. And there's 49 elements that make up a personality spectrum. And the goal there is to find out what your top ten strengths are and then focus on the top five. 

Because if you're focusing on the top five five, you're going to thrive in all the time because you're doing the very thing that God created you to do. Now, if you look at my 49, you're going to find things like analytical detail numbers are way at the bottom. Does that mean? I can't do my checkbook and I can't handle money? No, it means I just get tired doing it, and it's not. And 

Rich Bennett 43:07
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 43:07
I forget. So don't specialize in your weaknesses, Specialize in your strengths. And the place to say no is what people are asking you to do. What's in your weakness? So they asked me at my church, would you come in and count the money and do the management and the bookkeeping? I will say absolutely not. 

Because you are not only going to be frustrated with me, I'm going to be frustrated while I'm being mean. So I think. 

Rich Bennett 43:39
Done right. It's. 

Larry O'Nan 43:39
And I think every steward has got to say, how am I wired? Well, am I made? If you're made to lead, you can lead. Lions Club. 

If that's not a strength of yours and you're a better doer, don't volunteer to be on the board. You're going to frustrate you. 

Rich Bennett 43:59
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 43:59
Everybody else. So I think everybody is they realize who they are, what their strengths are. Then maximize your life around what gets you up in the morning. I like to write. I'm a creator. I take something from nothing. I turn it into something. I'm highly responsible. So if I say I'm going to do it, I can't live with myself until I do it. And 

Rich Bennett 44:26
Yeah, 

Larry O'Nan 44:26
I know that if I say yes, I'm going to, I've got to do it. I don't say yes and then tell you a week or two later, oh, I just couldn't get to that and that really sorry. No, I couldn't live with myself that way. So it's better 

Rich Bennett 44:40
right. 

Larry O'Nan 44:40
to say no right up front because it's not going to frustrate you and me and being a steward does not mean you say yes to everything. I think sometimes we feel like, well, I'm here and they ask me to do X, Y, Z. Years ago, in my church environment, they asked me to head up an area of called 

education. That was kind of the. In charge of all the schools for the kids and start schools and stuff. It was the worst job I ever had in my life. They cut big and I had to do it for two years and I was traveling 60% of the time. And part of my job was make sure we had teachers in all the classrooms for the kids. And now we get back in town and get a phone call Saturday night. My husband and I got to go to the golf tournament over an X, Y, Z, so we're going to be gone tomorrow. But I hope you can find somebody to cover for us. 

I was always filling in somebody else's shoes of a. 

Rich Bennett 45:42
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 45:42
Because that was not my strength to do those things. And I was being required to work with people in a way that was not my strength. I'd have been smarter to tell them I'm resigning from that job because it's not me. I learned through that process to never do it again. So don't worry, I'm not going to go back and do that. But there are some people that love detail. You know, I've got a gal that I work with in one organization and she just thrives on the details and the date. She doesn't want to. She does the banking and so forth for the nonprofit. She does that old school way. But 

Rich Bennett 46:22
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 46:22
she knows what she's doing and she's 100% accurate. Don't mess her up. But don't ask her to speak anyplace. She can't stand up and say a word in public because that's not her strength. She's very fulfilled in doing the detail that she's created to be. 

So, you know, to your listeners this morning, if you do not know who you are, figure out who you are. Identify me. Go on to a website. Strength fighters, and just go in there and take a simple free test and it gets you started and you start to say, Oh my gosh, that's who I am. And this is. And then that gives you enough information to say, Here's how you function and here's how you think, man. When people get freed up and do what they're living in their strengths to do. They're different people. And you're also empowered in that process to say, You wouldn't want me to do that because that would not be using me correctly. 

Rich Bennett 47:23
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 47:23
And that is also freeing for the person that feels like, Oh, I'm obligated. They asked me, so I should do it. Oh, please don't. Don't mess this up. If this is not you, don't take it on. And I tell people, if this is your strength and I think it is, you would be really good at this. But if you do not think it is your strength and you have some hesitations, you're not offending me because I don't want you to be miserable and I don't want to be miserable. So. 

Rich Bennett 47:52
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 47:53
Let's do it together. Life is is about intentionally living life and giving yourself to what you do well. 

Rich Bennett 48:03
I don't know what it is, but it seems like a lot of people are just afraid to say no and they will like me. I love a challenge and I was that way. I had a hard time saying no. 

Larry O'Nan 48:18
Well. 

Rich Bennett 48:19
But I learned that, yeah, you can only do stuff that you're strong. Because if you do something that you're not good at, it's just going to make things even worse. And then whoever comes behind you to try to fix it, it's going to take them even longer. 

Larry O'Nan 48:35
That's exactly 

Rich Bennett 48:36
Because 

Larry O'Nan 48:36
right. 

Rich Bennett 48:36
you don't know you don't know how bad you did, did it? Yeah. You don't want that headache. 

Larry O'Nan 48:42
I, I had a, a nephew one time that decided he wanted to be a CPA. He was really impressed 

Rich Bennett 48:49
Mm. 

Larry O'Nan 48:50
with how much CPAs make, especially if you're one of the top firms. And he went to school and he got his CPA license and he got his certificate, and he started working with one of the large firms. And he went to work the first day and nobody wanted to talk to him. Now, keep in mind, this kid is very gregarious, loves people, loves interaction. He's a team player. He didn't realize until his first assignment that a CPA doing an audit, nobody will talk to you for the entire period of the audit. You've got to ask for everything you want. And they 

Rich Bennett 49:28
Her. 

Larry O'Nan 49:28
feel like they're a victim being audited when they don't really want to be audited. And they give you a desk and they're formally collected, they'll call you by your Mr. So-and-so. But when it comes to the after work, there's nobody to go out for a drink with. There's nobody to interact with. There's no sports games you're going to go to because nobody wants to be an auditor. 

Rich Bennett 49:52
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 49:53
And he said, I realized five days into my career that this was the wrong career, and he had to struggle through that. Now, my nephew today is a recruiter of CPAs and auditors. 

He knows the skills 

Rich Bennett 50:12
But he's 

Larry O'Nan 50:13
that. 

Rich Bennett 50:13
not a CPA himself. 

Larry O'Nan 50:14
But he's not a CPA himself. He knows the skills. 

Rich Bennett 50:17
Okay. 

Larry O'Nan 50:17
But he's a recruiter. What's he doing? He's using that gregarious. Style of relationships to find people that are good at doing the other job. And he's done it for 15 or 20 years and he loves recruiting because he's been is he's wired to be a people person. He's not wired to sit at a desk with his cap on, never talking to anybody and looking at numbers all day long. So I think sometimes people think they want to do something and that's not their strength. I wish people could figure out their strength before they went into school. Educate. 

Rich Bennett 50:56
Oh, absolutely. 

Larry O'Nan 50:56
Because it will help 

Rich Bennett 50:57
Yes. 

Larry O'Nan 50:57
them find the job I found. 

Historically, I'm a theater arts major. I love the theater. I spent years on the stage. I. I gravitated toward the directing more than I did the acting. Because it was creating something for the stage rather than repeating over and over again one. Now, it wasn't that I disliked acting, but I did gravitate toward that, to that gut that fulfilled me. It was the 

Rich Bennett 51:28
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 51:28
directing that got me going. Now, why you? 

Rich Bennett 51:32
Feel like you're creating something bigger. 

Larry O'Nan 51:34
And at the University of Colorado. When I graduated, they thought I was going to be a debate coach in a theater arts coach and, you know, speak English. I've never done any of those things from the University of Colorado. But what I started doing is creating more and more something from nothing. I became the executive director of these things. And those are the things that take okay, Here is the idea. It's unresolved. I got the freedom to fail. How do I go about starting this process? What's it going to take to make it work? What tools do I need to make it happen? What people do. I need to get involved to help me make it successful. You know, I never picked out costumes or performance outfits for the group that were on tour. I let people that were good into the arts to make it work, right? But I had to get somebody to make them look right on stage. And if they were a country group, they better be wearing cowboy boots and jeans and a plaid shirt. 

Rich Bennett 52:35
Huh? 

Larry O'Nan 52:35
But if they were a performance group, the other group was. I remember one group, we had a violin, a flute and a piano, and they did high brow music and they really attracted international students from overseas. It was high music. That was the total opposite of a country group or. 

Rich Bennett 52:58
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 52:58
Any type group. And the rock group looked very different from the other groups. That was because we were creating environments to reflect to what we were doing. 

Rich Bennett 53:11
Right 

Larry O'Nan 53:11
But I'm not the one that went out and did shopping for what they look like, but they had to look good up there. Now, today's 

Rich Bennett 53:18
there. 

Larry O'Nan 53:19
age, it's a little bit different. They have weird. 

Rich Bennett 53:21
A lot different. 

Larry O'Nan 53:22
But at that time, we were we were creating the environment by what they were wearing. 

Rich Bennett 53:28
Mm. 

Larry O'Nan 53:29
Well, no, I didn't go. I wasn't go shopping for clothes. But we've been had meetings about what this group should look like. And then I would send people that were good in design out to go find everything. And we came out looking really good. They'd say, Well, Larry, that's fantastic what you did. No, I didn't do it. I just created the environment where we could get it done. I think we've got to realize that we are gifted with unique strengths and we need to utilize those strengths to the maximum. And you're going to get a lot of joy for figuring out what those strengths are. But you're doing that always. Because if I don't own anything, you know, the state of California out here believes I own a house. They tax me for it. I just pay the first installment for my property tax. I own a car, I've got clothes, I've got furniture, I've got history around the house. But really, I don't own anything. Everything around here is on loan to me, and it's not really mine. I'm only entrusted to take care for a short time. 

Rich Bennett 54:33
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 54:33
So when I realized that I'm just managing the affairs of somebody else and I and I need to use my skill package to do that, which could be different than than rich, What your skill packages and how you do it in Maryland. 

Rich Bennett 54:48
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 54:48
And that's what it's about. And if we're doing what we're called to do and we understand the dynamic and how that those principles work, you're going to be a free agent. You're going to be free to do. You're going to be freedom to fail. 

Rich Bennett 55:03
You have to get that put on a shirt. 

Larry O'Nan 55:06
Well, I. Maybe I should do that. I've got. 

Rich Bennett 55:09
I love that. 

Larry O'Nan 55:10
Is a term I use in the book called Authorized a Wealth Distributor. And the authorized wealth distributor is one that's committed and see if I got one of those up here. Yeah. I don't fancy that rich or not, 

Rich Bennett 55:27
Oh, yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 55:27
it's. 

Rich Bennett 55:27
Almost looks like a sheriff's. 

Larry O'Nan 55:29
Yeah, it's a sheriff's badge. You're an authorized wealth distributor. You're free to give God's gifts and possessions freely away at call. And on the other side is in intentional living and giving. Not a mug. They're just a mugs. 

Rich Bennett 55:44
I like that. 

Larry O'Nan 55:45
But the authorized well distributor is you're authorized by God himself to give away his possessions to help meet the needs of others. And if you're doing that well, you're going to be a happy camper if you're holding on too tightly. You're going to be a pretty miserable creature. 

Rich Bennett 56:06
Yeah. You gotta get that put on a shirt to write on the left breast. Yeah, like weird chairs. Deputies where. 

Larry O'Nan 56:14
Yeah. I saw my my web designer is got a guy wearing a white t shirt and he put a digital copy on. I don't think any exists any place, but I that would be a good logo just to authorize what distributor. 

Rich Bennett 56:29
Yeah, I love it. I think you should. And actually, speaking of websites. Excuse me. Tell everybody where they can get your book and find out more about you. 

Larry O'Nan 56:40
Larry, only in L.A. are y o in AA, and there's no apostrophe in the website. That's a that's 

Rich Bennett 56:48
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 56:48
a character that the computers don't like using characters, wrong places. So it's Larry Onan dot com, and you're going to find the book there. The book, though Rich, can be picked up at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Books-A-Million. You can go into your bookstore if you want to go there. Any place you buy books and they they can order. If they don't have them, they can get up there readily available. My publisher is out of 

Myrtle Beach or back in Virginia. 

Morgan. 

Rich Bennett 57:24
Mortgage, James. 

Larry O'Nan 57:24
James is a publisher, but look up intentional living and giving and Larry owns and you can find it on my website. But you know, it's as easy for you to do that on Amazon to just order today and you'll get it tomorrow type of thing. 

Rich Bennett 57:41
And I'll make sure I have a link in the show now. To those of you listening after you get in, when you get it and after you read it, make sure you leave a full review for Larry as well. Whether it be on Amazon. Good reads, Bart. Wherever you leave reviews actually 

Larry O'Nan 57:56
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 57:56
just leave a review every. 

Larry O'Nan 57:58
You can review it. Everyone. That would help me a lot. And then when I pick up good ones, I'll Straub drop them over to my my, my website as well. I've got over 35 endorsements over there from around the world, people. 

Rich Bennett 58:10
Nice. 

Larry O'Nan 58:11
So you can find out there. You can find out also on the website is where you can get the leaders guide if you want to teach the concept in small group. There's other I 

Rich Bennett 58:23
Oh. 

Larry O'Nan 58:23
authorized well distributor package of you know stickers and certificates and, you know wristbands, things like that are also available just there in a bundle. You can go to the website there. 

Rich Bennett 58:38
Oh, 

Larry O'Nan 58:39
Those kind of things. But the book itself, you can pick up any place and the book 

Rich Bennett 58:43
right. 

Larry O'Nan 58:44
does have a leader's guide so that you can learn how to lead people, you know, 8 to 12 people in a small group can read it and study it together. It's a it's an ideal thing for that because you're helping people get practical and learning how to do this. And over about an eight week period. So it's a kind of a fun study. 

Rich Bennett 59:03
And the thing is, I think this would also be good for businesses as well. 

Larry O'Nan 59:07
It would be good for businesses. It would be good for your Lions Club. 

Rich Bennett 59:12
Yes, I was thinking of that. 

Larry O'Nan 59:13
Look itself would be really helpful for them because they realize their contribution. People in the service clubs, Kiwanis, Rotary Lions Club, they want to be helpful, but they don't know really why they're being helpful. 

Rich Bennett 59:30
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 59:30
I don't know how to say no to hard decisions because part of being a good steward is saying no. So if you're in a Lions Club gets an opportunity to help X, Y, Z, how do you how do you evaluate X, Y, Z if you should help them? 

Because you're. 

Rich Bennett 59:49
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 59:50
You get caught giving help to the wrong people? Pretty easy. 

Rich Bennett 59:54
Oh, yes, you can. 

Larry O'Nan 59:55
What are the things that just as a practical side of that? Rich I never give to panhandlers on freeways and to homeless people. Now, there's a lot of people say, well, you should help them out. I'm saying, no, there's already structures in place to help them and my money is going to go buy liquor and drugs. I'm not there to help them propagate their own problems, so I won't give to them. I got a little card that says, If you want help, call this number. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:23
Right. 

Larry O'Nan 1:00:23
There's plenty of help to get you out of trouble. But if you don't want to get out of trouble, it's not my cut. You don't need my money to carry on your habit. So I drive by him all the time and people say, Oh, I always carry $10 in $1 bills. No, you're doing that to satisfy your guilt. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:45
Some of them. You got to be careful. All we. I'll never forget this. 

Not far from here, there was a guy that was always sitting on the corner asking for money. And then people saw him walk away and get into his new pickup truck and leave. 

Larry O'Nan 1:01:04
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:06
You know. Yeah, it's some people are just they're sneaky. They don't need the money, but they're. Some people are making a living doing it. 

Larry O'Nan 1:01:15
That's right. If you dress 

Rich Bennett 1:01:17
It's. 

Larry O'Nan 1:01:17
right, walk right in. I will never give money to 

Rich Bennett 1:01:19
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 1:01:19
a. The sight of a restaurant that's begging for money. I said to a few of them. If you're really hungry, I'll take you in and buy you a meal. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:29
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 1:01:29
But I'm going to 

Rich Bennett 1:01:30
Yep. 

Larry O'Nan 1:01:30
give you $5 to where you can go across the street and buy another bottle of whatever you. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:37
Exactly. Tell me what you ordered. I'll bring it out. 

Larry O'Nan 1:01:40
And if you don't want to walk in, I'll get you a takeout and you can eat it out here. Outside, I think. See, that's why stewardship. Because 

Rich Bennett 1:01:48
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 1:01:48
I think what you don't what people often don't realize is a steward is responsible for giving it to a place that's going to leverage it and use it. Right. It's not releasing you from the money is to make sure that you're putting it in the right place. So I've talked to a numerous especially the guys that give significant dollars. They say the responsibility is great because I've got to make sure that it continues to be spent right. And then the nonprofit does not like people looking over their shoulder asking hard questions. But that's what a good steward does. They want accountability. And it's like. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:26
Exactly. 

Larry O'Nan 1:02:26
She's going to want to see your numbers if he likes outcomes or how many people you're helping. He wants to meet the people. And I've had many nonprofits that I've dealt with say, well, we don't really want to get the donor involved or what we're doing. I said, You've got two problems. Number one, you use the word donor. That's a person that gets stuck in the arm and you give them a sugar cube as a result. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:47
Yes. Thank you. 

Larry O'Nan 1:02:49
Number two, you're saying that your organization is not their organization. This is their organization. They're making it possible because they're giving you. They're asking you to facilitate on their behalf good stewardship. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:06
Mm hmm. 

Larry O'Nan 1:03:06
This is not to people independent. This is a joining hands together. And I can bring you certain things and you can bring certain things together. We make an impact. It's not us being by ourselves, being independent. And so I think even in the when I dealt with the service club, you know, the corners experience of it, there's a lot of things we do to help. I understand that. But there's a lot of things we've got to do to say, No, we're not going to help do that. And we do it because we're being prudent in our stewardship, not because we are saying no to a bad cause. Or maybe we say, before you do that, we got to see this, this and this. And if we don't produce it, I don't feel bad about not give it it. It frustrates people to have that attitude. And sometimes relationally you get caught in a mess because you know so-and-so really well that lives down the street that's running this little thing. And, you know, obviously your relationship, you feel obligated. No, I think they got to know is our responsibility. And even governing how we give away money is to do our investigation because we are responsible to make that leverage work well. So we want to see your outcomes. I mean, stewardship can be tough to work with good stewards, and you should expect it. It's a partnership. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:34
Bingo. Right there. Partnership. 

Larry O'Nan 1:04:36
Partnership. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:37
Partnership. 

Larry O'Nan 1:04:38
It's all about. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:40
I love. 

Larry O'Nan 1:04:40
Rich. That's the story of it. I encourage you, might your friends listeners get a copy of it? You'll not only be blessed by it, it will help you on getting new tracks for the future. The latter half of the book is full of ways to be a good steward. What to watch out for and how you won't get deceived. What's your greatest liability? Being a good steward is to be. And that's the word indifference. We sometimes get indifferent and we want to ignore a problem. And we need to be looking in to see if we should be responsible for it. But indifference is down. There's the chapter on money, and it goes into the history of the biblical money. And what money does and why. Money is a valuable thing to give. Money is a tangible way that you see yourself involved. One of the things I love when I give you eye contact. I do not feel like giving you anything, but I've got to sometimes put down my phone and look at you in the eye so that, you know, I'm listening to you that's giving you something. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:42
Yeah. 

Larry O'Nan 1:05:44
Otherwise I'm going to pick up my phone and I see you preoccupied by looking through the scrolling through, whatever it is. I hate it when I see two people in a restaurant. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:54
Oh. 

Larry O'Nan 1:05:55
Just looking at phones. What a sad way to live when you when a a device is more important than your relationship across the table. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:05
Nowadays. Some of these people are so, so scared to talk. They're sitting there texting each other. 

Larry O'Nan 1:06:10
Across the table. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:12
Yes. It's crazy. 

Larry O'Nan 1:06:14
That's what you call addiction. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:17
Exact. Well, Larry, I want to thank you so much. I cannot wait to talk to you again because I want to have you on again. Talk about to talk about Santa Claus, Inc. and some other things that. 

Larry O'Nan 1:06:30
You talk a lot about what nonprofits go through. Since I spent 40 years, 34 years in that area as well. So, Rich, if you want to reach out, let's let's have another conversation. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:42
Definitely. Without a doubt. I'm going to get a hold of a couple of my co-host because I think this would be a especially on the nonprofit part, could be a good roundtable discussion, a virtual roundtable. 

Larry O'Nan 1:06:54
I would love to have that. Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:57
Says the. 

Larry O'Nan 1:06:57
Be with you today.