Sherry Shaban’s Journey to Heal Through Fitness

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation, where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. I'm your host, Rich Bennett. And today, I am thrilled to welcome Sheri Shaaban, an esteemed osteopath and anti-health coach from Montreal, Quebec. Sheri is the founder of an awesome podcast called Fall in Love with Fitness and the creator of the Make Peace with Food Program. She's got over 20, 23 years. 

Sherry Shaban 0:30
I should say, 25 at this point. 

Rich Bennett 0:33
I was going to say I thought you were only 25. But over 25 years of experience, Sherri has revolutionized the fitness industry by helping thousands transform their health and fitness through her unique method of rewiring the brain's relationship with food. I love that. So join us as we dive deep into her insights on diet, health and fitness. First of all, welcome, Sherri. 

Sherry Shaban 0:58
Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 1:00
I have to ask right away, what in the world is an osteopath? 

Sherry Shaban 1:03
Even I don't. 

Rich Bennett 1:04
Just doesn't sound It seems kind of scary, you know? 

Sherry Shaban 1:08
Yeah. Well, thank you so much again for having me in. And I get this question asked a lot, and I don't know if you've ever watched Family Guy. There was this one episode it. 

Rich Bennett 1:18
Oh, yeah. 

Sherry Shaban 1:19
Yeah. Where somebody ask, well, what's an osteopath? And he tried to, you know, go off on this long elaborate explanation. But essentially we treat the body as a global unit. So if somebody comes in with a shoulder injury or chronic shoulder pain, we look at the entire body to see where this could be stemming from, because we believe that the body is interconnected through its vascular system and its arterial system. And most often the problem is actually somewhere else. It could be in the hips, it could be in the neck, it could be even in the lower extremities or the legs. And so we don't isolate one body area. We treat the entire body. And even then we treat fluids as a system. We treat also the spiritual body as a system and energy as a system. And so it is a holistic approach to an annual therapy. 

Rich Bennett 2:10
Oh, okay. Now, see, now, the way you explain that, that makes a lot more sense. But I'm not Peter from Family Guy. Just shoot. 

Some people say I may look like him at times, but no, actually. Can you share a bit a little bit about your well, as much as you went about your journey and what inspired you to pursue a career in health and fitness? 

Sherry Shaban 2:33
Yeah, sure. I always say I stumbled into it sort of by accident. And growing up, I was really involved in sports. I was a child athlete. I was a competitive swimmer. I was a tomboy trying to out push up and outrun the boys. And by the time, you know, by the time I got to high school, I was playing all the varsity sports. I was MVP. Most of the time. And that was my identity. I was just sharing the athlete. And then one day I was hit by a car. This was when I was 16 years old. I was in boarding school in Lugano, Switzerland. I went downtown with my roommate. We were going to buy Pearl Jam concert tickets and on our way back to the dorm to try to catch the bus so we can check in on time. I didn't see the car coming. I got struck by the car and the next thing I know, I was waking up in the hospital. So I was. 

Rich Bennett 3:20
In Switzerland. 

Sherry Shaban 3:21
Yeah, this was in Switzerland. And at that at that time it was basketball season. So after I recovered, I was all banged up from. From the accident. I was sore, I had some abrasions on my face. Clearly, I had an undiagnosed concussion, but by the time I came back to basketball season, I started to feel some pain in my right glute. And at first I thought it was muscle soreness because I had been out of the picture for a few weeks. But then as I continued to show up, it started to progress and escalate. And then now the pain was traveling down my leg. It was radiating like electricity and it just kept getting worse and worse until it got to the point where I couldn't walk uphill. I couldn't sit for a long time, and then I couldn't shower on my own. And then I went back to see my parents. I went back home and I went to see a doctor, and that's when I found out I had injured multiple levels of the vertebra, the vertebral just to be specific, and I needed an emergency surgery. And so I had 

Rich Bennett 4:18
Why? 

Sherry Shaban 4:18
a back surgery just as I was turning 17 and then told by my doctor I was never going to play sports again. I wasn't allowed to play all the sports that I normally enjoy doing, especially volleyball. And so Rich, I listened to this advice for so many years, and by the time I was 2021, I found myself, well, I needed a new peer group. And so I found myself in a party group doing a lot of the things that parents tell their kids not to do. And I kind of just woke up one day just really grossed out by myself. I just I didn't connect with who I had become. And I was just after this night of partying, I was like, Who is this person? Like, I would never have expected me to be doing all these things in my life and to be where I am right now. And at that point I was actually relying on heavy pain medication to get through the day. Everything in my life revolved around my back. It was chronic back pain that I was experiencing every single day, and that would dictate how long I would sit in a car, for what kind of car I would even drive in, and how long I would sit at a social event. Oftentimes, I'd have to ask the host if there was a place for me to lie down at some point and to make a long story short. During that time, I was actually doing studying biochemistry. I was doing my master's degree in it. I decided to sign up at a local gym. I just like, you know what? I was always sharing that actually, I'm going to go back and I'm going to I'm going to rebuild myself back up. And so I signed up at a gym. I kept showing up. And at that point, I'm a science nerd. I've no idea how these exercises work, what they're for, but you're supposed to do them for. But that person's doing that. So I'm going to do it and that person's doing that. So I'm going to try that. And I stayed consistent for months until I realized my back pain was gone. I was able to get off my pain meds and I bought a treadmill. I started running 5 minutes at a time until I made my way up to running a full hour outdoors. 

Rich Bennett 6:17
Wow. 

Sherry Shaban 6:17
That's when the dragon was unleashed. I dropped out of my master's degree. I went back to school. I started studying exercise science. I became a certified athletic therapist. And then I started studying osteopathy and I took every single course I could possibly get my hands on when it came to any type of training modality, whether that was Kettlebells or T-Rex or CrossFit. And then of course, I learned about nutrition, and that's really when the journey started. 

Rich Bennett 6:45
Back up a minute. So when you were hit by the car, you weren't in another car. You were walking. 

Sherry Shaban 6:52
I was. I was running across the street trying to catch a bus. 

Rich Bennett 6:56
You're lucky that thing didn't kill you. 

Sherry Shaban 6:58
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 7:01
And very, very important question. Have you been able to see Pearl Jam? Yes. 

Sherry Shaban 7:08
Twice. 

Rich Bennett 7:10
All right. Okay. 

Sherry Shaban 7:12
Is. And I'm so grateful for that. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 7:16
The other thing, it scares me because you said you were on like a ton of different pain medication. A lot of people would have become addicted to that. How did you manage to not allow that to happen or did or didn't happen? 

Sherry Shaban 7:32
No, it didn't happen, fortunately. And, you know, it got to the point where actually it was making me more sick than anything. So I always had these these stomach pains that have a lot of gastric upset. And I needed it because it would numb it a little bit, but at the same time wouldn't give me that full effect. And so it's interesting that you say that because I really am an all or none person. And I've noticed that with certain habits that I also do in my life. Once I'm in, I'm in. And then also once I decide I'm done, then I'm done. And that that happens overnight. And that's what I've seen with some vices that I've also had in my life. I'm all in when I'm doing it. And then the moment I decide I'm going to quit or I stop, I also just go complete cold turkey. And I sort 

Rich Bennett 8:16
Right. 

Sherry Shaban 8:16
of I think it's more my character type. 

Rich Bennett 8:20
So please, some of your backs are 110% now. 

Sherry Shaban 8:23
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 8:26
Now, when you started going to the gym and started working out the next time you went to the doctor, what did your doctor say? 

Sherry Shaban 8:33
So it's interesting because I actually ended up having a second back surgery, which I have to continue my story a little bit. Right. 

Rich Bennett 8:42
Wow. 

Sherry Shaban 8:42
So so the first the first doctor that I saw, I mean, like I said, I was just turning turning 17 at that point. 

Rich Bennett 8:48
Right. 

Sherry Shaban 8:49
And that's what I think they believed in back then. They believed in Do nothing. Something hurts. Stop completely, rest forever. And by the time I went into my second back surgery and there's a long story behind that, I after I had started my fitness career, I was doing one on one coaching at people's homes and I started bootcamps and parks. And then eventually I opened up my first CrossFit gym in Montreal in 2012. This was actually the third CrossFit gym to open in all of Montreal. And I had 

Rich Bennett 9:19
Wow. 

Sherry Shaban 9:19
a deadline which I had invested a lot of money, I had deadline, I had marketed it. Everybody knew this gym was opening and we had actually done a lot of the stuff ourselves. So the painting and the sanding and we did a lot of the the renos. 

Rich Bennett 9:33
Wow. 

Sherry Shaban 9:33
And so this one day I remember and my back pain was was starting to get again more intense. I was starting to feel that pain in my leg. I ignored it because I had a deadline and this one day I had bent over to sand the plyometric box, which is the boxes that we jump on and CrossFit. We built them ourselves. And so I finished sanding it, and then as soon as I stood up, I collapsed the floor in such intense pain. I was rushed to the hospital by ambulance and I went into the hospital on a Wednesday. And by Friday they were already doing the second surgery. It was and that one was an emergency surgery that was really two millimeters away from paralysis. And so what I was really lucky with during that second surgery was the doctor who was performing it. The surgeon was actually a cyclist himself. And so that was probably the best advice I've ever gotten, which was, look, this is going on. This is reality. This is this is what you have. It's clear that you're you have a good base of fitness. And at the same time, if you do want to continue to train and you don't want to come back for a third surgery, then you need to respect your body. And that means don't left more than 70% of your body weight. And he just started giving me some some guidelines. It wasn't an all or none. It wasn't. No, you can never do this. He just set some boundaries. And I use those boundaries. And I started working more with plyometrics, body weight training. And I eventually even launched an app that was just based on really bodyweight movements and very minimal equipment. And so to answer your question, I think it also depends on who your surgeon is, who you're working with, and especially if there's somebody who does understand that fitness can be adaptable and that can be modified to the person's circumstances, then you'll have a very, very different type of advice. 

Rich Bennett 11:30
All right. When's the book coming out? 

Sherry Shaban 11:32
That's funny that you say that. I actually have a couple of books. I have a couple of books in the back burner that that I've been thinking about for years. You'll be the first to know. 

Rich Bennett 11:42
Yeah, because you got to come on and promote that. I mean, your story. I mean, Todd, it's amazing that you're walking. 

Sherry Shaban 11:52
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 11:54
And now here it is. You're still working out, you're helping other people. And what was it? You're not special is 70% of your body weight. 

Sherry Shaban 12:01
Right? Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 12:03
I'm an idiot. 

Oh, wait a minute. No, sir. All right, so if you're £100, you should have lived over £70. 

Sherry Shaban 12:12
That's right. 

Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 12:16
Or is it just if you're injured or dead in general? 

Sherry Shaban 12:19
You know, for me, because I'm actually missing pieces of bone from my spine. So when they did the surgery, 

Rich Bennett 12:27
Okay. 

Sherry Shaban 12:28
yeah, they they removed the lamina from, from the from the vertebra itself. And so I do have limitations, but I also see merit in always honoring your body and respecting your body. And, you know, I saw this a lot in the CrossFit world where it's, you know, train until you barf and train until you kill yourself. And you're not done until you're sweeping up your blood and sweat and tears off the floor. 

Rich Bennett 12:49
Right. 

Sherry Shaban 12:49
And I actually like why? Because the question is why. Right? And, you know, I always would ask myself, well, who's paying me to train? Like, who's paying me to perform? Nobody. Right. So if I if I end up killing myself in the process or seriously injuring my back to the process, what am I getting out of that? Nothing. Except I'm actually going to have to be forced to take more rest. And it's going to impact my work and all these things. And so it's it's something I believe that we all should approach. Fitness with just this idea of leaving every single workout with gas still left in the tank, especially if you want to exercise everyday, because where the magic happens is actually during your recovery. And so we actually build muscle and restore whatever we did from that workout session during the recovery time, not actually during the workout time. So if you're always killing it at the gym and then going to 110, 120%, and then doing that again the next day and do that again the next day, you're actually creating a lot of inflammation in the body and never giving your body the 

Rich Bennett 13:51
Right. 

Sherry Shaban 13:51
chance to rest and then to rebuild itself in the way that you want and the way you want to see results. 

Rich Bennett 13:58
Wow. And she and my mentality for the longest time, especially from the Marine Corps. No pain, no gain. 

Sherry Shaban 14:05
Right. 

Rich Bennett 14:06
You do whatever 

weight wise or like whatever. Doesn't matter if it's a car, try to pick it up. 

Sherry Shaban 14:14
Right. 

Rich Bennett 14:15
Which is probably why my bag is so jacked as it is. Yeah, I. 

Sherry Shaban 14:19
Right. 

Rich Bennett 14:21
Another another thing, because you advocate and this is something I really love to talk about, you advocate for an anti diet approach. Can you explain what that means and why traditional diets often fail? 

Sherry Shaban 14:34
Yeah, really great. So the thing about diets is that there's always an expiration date, right? Most diets. 

Rich Bennett 14:42
Oh. 

Sherry Shaban 14:42
Start when we start dieting or we start whatever new regime that we're trying. We always know that we just have to do it up until a certain point. Right. And if you notice. 

Rich Bennett 14:52
I never looked at it that way. But that's that's good. I like that expiration date part. 

Sherry Shaban 14:57
Yeah. And and then the other thing we have to ask ourselves is why is it that here in North America, United States and Canada, we are wealthy as some of the wealthiest countries in the world? We have so much science, we know so much about nutrition. We have the most health, foods and diets available. And yet, why are we the most overweight populations on the planet? Why is it that we are suffering from all of these weight related diseases? And so it's really because of the mindset of dieting, and dieting doesn't actually teach us how to eat. It doesn't actually 

Rich Bennett 15:29
Right, 

Sherry Shaban 15:29
teach us how to make lifestyle changes. It just tells us that all we have to do is remove this or restrict that. Up until this point, and then there should be an outcome. And we're never really given any explanation or guidance around what to do afterwards. And here's how the human mind works. The human mind always likes to know when it's going to stop doing something right. If I tell you get rich, start running, and you're like, For how long? Look rich, just keep running, right? Your mind is going to force you to slow down. You're you're not going to a lot of energy to run because you don't know how long you're supposed to you're supposed to run for. But if I tell you, 

Rich Bennett 16:06
Right. 

Sherry Shaban 16:06
you're going to run for 10 minutes or you're going to run for two miles, well, you already have that endpoint in sight, and then you're able to manage your energy towards that. And the same thing with, let's say, when we do our taxes every year we collect. Stuff. We give it to the accountant and then we stop working. We never have to think about it until the next year. And so diets basically teach us that there's this end point, there's this expiration date, and we just have to reach it. And once we reach it, we stop working. And so the antidote approach is really reframing the question, reframing the goal. Even so, instead of, for example, my goal is to release £30. When we reframe that, we say, my goal is to become the person who's £30 lighter. And now that's a really, really big shift because if I if I want to lose £30, I mean, there's so many ways to do that. I can go keto, I can go on Weight Watchers, I can restrict, I can over exercise, I can even chop off an arm and I'll release 30 parts. Right. However. 

Rich Bennett 17:11
Please don't chop off the arm. 

Sherry Shaban 17:13
Please don't do that. But we could, right? And it doesn't really. It doesn't really say anything. Does. If I want to release weight, I could also be releasing muscle mass. I could be releasing. 

Rich Bennett 17:21
Yeah. 

Sherry Shaban 17:22
Precious tissue. Just what? It's just what the scale says. But if my goal instead is to become the person who's £30 lighter. Well, now I'm going to look at my entire lifestyle. What time am I going to wake up? What's the first thing I'm gonna do when I get up? What's the first thing I'm going to consume? What time am I going to consume that? Am I going to exercise? What kind of exercise is that going to be? And now I can start looking at purposeful exercise in the non purposeful exercise. And what am I going to have for lunch? And then what time do I stop eating at night? And what are the choices I'm going to make? And who are the people I'm going to spend time with? And now you can really start to make a bigger, bigger picture around who this avatar is. And then slowly start to add one habit at a time. And this is what I call habit stacking. And so oftentimes, many of us who have not been in the space or we don't know we don't know who that person who's £30 lighter is going to be. We don't know what that lifestyle is going to look like. So if we're in that place where we're confused and we just don't know where to begin. One thing we can do is connect with somebody that we know who is doing the things that we want to do, who is getting results that we want. So same thing around finances if somebody is doing the results that you want. What do you do? You're going to ask them, Well, how do you manage your budget? Where do you do your investments? And so on and so forth. And the same thing stands for your health and fitness journey. And so when we remove ourselves from this word diet, the other thing that we do is we shift from a can't mindset to a don't mindset. And so when we diet because we're restricting and we can't eat this many calories today and we can't have sugar because we're dieting and we can't eat carbs and we can't, can't, can't. What we're also telling ourselves is that there's desire behind that. We want that thing, but we're not allowing ourselves to have that. And this creates a dopamine reward system in the brain where we desire that thing even more. So if I can't have a donut because I'm on a diet this week, because I got to lose £10 by August 15th, then what I'm actually saying is I desire it. I'm restricting myself and I'm going to want that donut even more. So by the time I let myself have that donut, it's not going to be one donut. It's probably going be fine, Right? However, if we're able to get to that place where we say, I don't eat donuts, I don't eat processed foods, I don't eat fast food, right, then it becomes an absolute description around who we are. So, for example, heroin. And I always give this example. If I go to a party and somebody offers me heroin, I'm not going to say, Oh, no, I can't do it right. I'm going to say, No, I don't do it because I don't do heroin, right? So when we can shift from Kant to Donut, that's where now we're also getting into that place where we are restructuring and remodeling ourselves to become that person who it is that we desire to become. 

Rich Bennett 20:11
Oh, damn. You're good at this. 

Well, before we started recording, I told you I had a doctor put me on a diet. We just did Christmas in July. For those of you listening, this is being recorded July 31st. We just did Christmas in July. My sister's last weekend, and I'm sitting there counting my calories and everything. And then I'm looking at all the brownies and the cheesecake squares. It's like, Oh God, I want to so but I know if I would just sit there thinking how I care because it's going to do this. If I would have said, I don't like that, that would have changed my mindset completely. 

Sherry Shaban 20:56
100%. 

Rich Bennett 20:57
Because the other thing is, too I love I love to drink beer. I love beer. Since I started this diet, I said no, because beer's got a lot of calories. And you know, the old saying, oh, he's got a beer gut. But I was drinking, too. Yeah, I needed to go to the flea. I call it flavored water. That the. Local beer. But I said, You know what? No, I don't. I don't. And this is healthy. I said, I don't want beer. I want water. But if I would have done that with the damn cupcakes and brownies and those little cheese squares, that would have been different. I love the way you said that. That's that's a good point, because one of the things we always or at least we taught our kids when they were younger. Kids always want one where they got to have this, this, this. And we talk to now. Ask for what you need. 

Sherry Shaban 21:55
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 21:56
Which kind of backfired with my son because he said, Well, I want to have to need that. 

But I loved it with the heroine. And now I really. Thank you. God, I've already learned so much already. This is amazing. With it, I want your take on this sleep 

and. I mean, I believe. Yeah, you should try, especially as you get older. I would say 6 to 8 hours of sleep a night. But what about naps during the day? What's your take on that? 

Sherry Shaban 22:33
Yeah, it's interesting because most of the time when we do feel tired in the afternoon, there can be different reasons for that. So one could be a sugar crash, for example. Right. 

Rich Bennett 22:46
Mhm. 

Sherry Shaban 22:46
So before we before we allow ourselves to have the nap and make that a part of our routine, let's get curious around why it's 

Rich Bennett 22:56
Right. 

Sherry Shaban 22:56
one of the reasons, again, could be that we have a sugar crash and this could be just an intense drop in insulin and that's happening in the middle the afternoon. The other thing could be that during the night we aren't actually getting restful sleep and we need that nap. So let's say we've unpacked this and we realized that, yes, my orange or whatever sleep tracking device I have is showing me that I'm getting enough REM sleep and I'm getting restful sleep and I also eat moderate amounts of sugars and I don't have the sugar or sugar crashes. Then why don't we give ourselves permission to take a nap? Because 

Rich Bennett 23:33
Mhm. 

Sherry Shaban 23:33
normally what we actually think about doing is either eating something or having some something caffeinated to keep us alert and awake. And so there is a lot of merit in just listening to the body like we were talking about earlier and really allowing yourself to get that rest. And sometimes it's 20 minutes or a 30 minute nap that can really restore your energy, especially if you're going through a stressful time or you're you're noticing that you're overexerting your body. But the first thing I would say is really just notice how you're managing sugar, how you're managing certain things in your diet that are maybe peaking and spiking your energy or sugar levels and then you're noticing your crashing often. And then also just to make sure that you are getting restful sleep during the night. 

Rich Bennett 24:14
Just curious, too, with you, because you started well, you got into fitness shortly after your accident, right? I was 17. 18. 

Sherry Shaban 24:26
I was 20. I was trying to have 

Rich Bennett 24:29
Okay. 

Sherry Shaban 24:29
a friend. 21. 

Rich Bennett 24:30
Okay. 

We have. Did you try all these different diets as well? 

Sherry Shaban 24:37
Yeah. Yeah. And 

Rich Bennett 24:38
Okay. 

Sherry Shaban 24:38
and this is this is an interesting part of my story. I think you were going to ask another question, though. Go ahead. 

Rich Bennett 24:44
No, go ahead. No, I was going to ask you about that. If you have you tried all these different diets and your take on them all. 

Sherry Shaban 24:50
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 24:50
I know your take on them all, but let. No Novello. 

Sherry Shaban 24:54
Yeah. So when I when I first got to the fitness space, like I was sharing, it was really to overcome major back pain. And I got so inspired when I was able to do that and be able to run again when doctors were telling me that was never going to happen. And so I wanted to get into that place where I could also help people overcome their obstacles, whether that was an injury like mine, whether that was a disease or a condition or maybe even a struggle with weight. And so one of the things that I committed to doing was learning everything I could about nutrition. And when I first got into this space, everybody was talking about counting calories and how you should have a low calorie diet. And again, my objective was not to release weight. I didn't even need to at that point, but I needed to learn how to eat so that I can help others, too. And so I started the low calorie diet and I started tracking every single calorie. And then after that, I heard that fats were bad. And so then I was like, okay, well, let me go low fat. It's going to be 0% fat, everything. And then I jumped on that. And then all of a sudden, this dude named Atkins was saying, you should do a lot of meat and now you should eat a lot of fats. And then carbohydrates are bad, even tomatoes. So I was like, okay, there's science there. Remember, I'm a science nerd. So we're going to do that. Then I opened the CrossFit gym and then everybody was saying that you should eat like a caveman and now we should be paleo. So I'm like, Right, we're going to eat Paleo. Then after that, everybody was talking about the zone diet. So then I did the Zone diet, which is a lot like macros and counting your, your points and all these things. And then after that everybody was talking about ketogenic diet. So then boom, that looks a lot like Atkins again, except a little bit less meat. So then I did the ketogenic diet, then I even became vegan. And so during this whole process, what 

Rich Bennett 26:34
Wow. 

Sherry Shaban 26:34
we ended up happening. Was I develop a very disordered relationship with food. I actually feared food. I had a lot of anxiety around food because my rules kept changing every single week, practically. And I was helping people, nutrition, I was creating meal plans, and I was teaching this stuff. And yet there was a lot of we don't eat this. This is bad. We eat this. This is get their science here, their science, their their science everywhere. And what I started noticing I was doing is I was restricting like I was sharing earlier. And then the moment that it was Friday night and I could have my cheat meal, well, my cheat meal became an entire binge session, and I would purchase all kinds of desserts, all the things that we were saying were bad and we don't eat all week. I was driving to another grocery store where my members wouldn't see me and I'm getting all that stuff and then eating secretly at home. And then by Monday I'd clean everything back up. I would meal prep, do a couple of days of fasting to make up for what I just did. And it was this vicious cycle that I was trapped in. And again, so grateful. Life happens for you, right? My my accident, my injury happened so that I can help people and really understand what it feels like to suffer and be in pain. And the same thing here. Most people who diet also develop a disordered relationship with food. Most people are extremely confused about food and they also get their information from the wrong sources. And the sources such as, for example, medical doctors, because where we put them in the hierarchy in our society, we put them pretty much up here. And I say this with so much respect because both my parents are physicians, my brother is a physician, but it is not their job to actually advise us about nutrition. They don't actually learn or study nutrition and they are doctors of medicine. And so give it when we get that advice that we should restrict calories or count calories or eat low fat. I mean, I've even worked with people whose doctors put them on the cookie diet because they thought that that was the right way to lose weight. And so when we do that, we have to understand that the body doesn't actually count calories, the body counts nutrients. It doesn't care how many calories come in and come out. And in fact, the way that we measure calories is through combusting of food in a tight chamber and then measuring the energy, the kilojoules that comes off of it. And that's not how the body works. That's not how we digest. And so we cannot actually use calories to overcome inflammation, inflammation in the body comes from the types of foods we eat, how we eat, and the fact that we don't actually take care of our cortisol levels and we don't allow our body a chance to heal. And so no amount of calorie counting or bouncing can actually make up for that. And so once we learn the way that the body works and it's not through a currency of calorie exchange, this big lie that we've been sold, which is you have to make sure that your calories in is less than your calories and all the stuff in order. If you want to lose all this calories in, calories out stuff is not actually how we transform our body or release weight. And so I have tried all those diets. And again, for some people, maybe the carnivore diet might work a little bit more for some other people. Maybe a vegan diet might work. We're all we all come from different areas and really genetic 

distributions that have favored certain types of foods. If you think about how, for example, some people on the planet eat that have an abundance in meat and other others who have an abundance and plants eat, we can't say that we were all designed to eat the exact same way. But I think we can all agree that the majority of the food that we consume today is not really food. It's more food like substance. A lot of food 

Rich Bennett 30:09
Yeah. 

Sherry Shaban 30:09
consumed right now, processed food that's man made food. That's what's creating a lot of the disease. And now throw in diets and confusion and then triggering the nervous system to binge eat and emotionally eat. Now we've got a mixture for really a lot of suffering and a lot of frustration long term. 

Rich Bennett 30:28
Wow. So going through all these diets as you've been through, even though you've remained physically fit, how did it affect your health internally and even mentally? 

Sherry Shaban 30:40
Yeah. Yeah. Well, mentally, I think that one was was definitely the most challenging because I remember there was, there was a moment where I wanted to stop and I realised I could. 

Rich Bennett 30:50
Uh huh. 

Sherry Shaban 30:51
I realized, like, I really can't stop. And so it wasn't until I stopped restricting and I just allowed myself to be more relaxed and I really relearned to be neutral around all foods that I was actually over able to overcome that. But the other thing that happened physically for me is that I developed a lot of gut health issues because when you when you change your diet so drastically, you have to remember that the majority of the digestion that happens in your gut is not really from the human body, it's from the microbes that are living there. The microorganisms 

Rich Bennett 31:20
Yeah. 

Sherry Shaban 31:21
or the gut microbiome, as they call it, that's responsible for breaking down foods. And so when I was paleo for so many years, I hadn't eaten any grains, I hadn't had any grains, I had I hadn't had potatoes. There were a lot of foods that I hadn't consumed. And then all of a sudden, when I became vegan, well, now I took out meat and now I am bringing in legumes and beans and all kinds of things with a vengeance because I'm trying to make sure my protein levels are high. And I was training a lot. And so just overnight, having to force my digestive system to digest something that it hadn't digested in years, that started to create a lot of issues. And then at that time too, my mom was incredibly sick. She passed away. And that also was a big psychological strain. And just again, understanding just how much the nervous system actually is responsive, both for digestion, is responsible for for fat storage or fat release is a really, really big part of the equation. And so I ended up suffering with gut health issues for a couple of years and then slowly had to do a lot of things from supplements to gut health testing, to really calming my nervous system down, to be able to heal my gut and all the information that I was having my body and, you know, where I felt it also in my body was was my back. So whenever we have inflammation in the body, we tend to feel chronic pain. Those places in our body that are the most vulnerable, that have deterioration, that's where we tend to actually see those flare ups. And so my back was also out of control during that time when I was really trying to overcome, overcome gut health issues. 

Rich Bennett 32:55
Wow. Damn it. Most people would have given up. 

You just stuck with it. Now you're teaching others how to do it properly. And I have to ask you this because I just love the 

the website, the way it's spelt out. Make peace with food, commune, eat, eat. 

I love. I just love a play on words explained everybody with to make peace with food community. Okay, that's hard to say Community. 

Sherry Shaban 33:34
Community. 

Rich Bennett 33:35
Community explained their value with that is wow community which I'm glad. 

Sherry Shaban 33:42
Not bad, right? You got it. You got it. So make peace with food again. Born. Born out of love. Born out of my own struggles. Born out of. Also just seeing in the last 25 years working with so many women that it's really not about the food. And their. Their struggle with weight is actually a struggle with eating behavior. It's binge eating. It's emotional eating. It is compulsive overeating. And most often what's behind that is a need to cope for something that feels uncomfortable or feels unbearable. And so this is actually a nervous system issue involvement, and it's working on the part of the nervous system, which I call protection mode. And we also know it as fight or flight or sympathetic nervous state. But many women who've gone through traumas in their past, whether that is emotional or sexual or physical or even even food scarcity, food scarcity is actually a traumatic event, and food scarcity could be real, which is really going to bed hungry many times because I had a single mom and she couldn't put food on the table. 

Rich Bennett 34:45
Oh, 

Sherry Shaban 34:46
And that was that was a very big form of trauma. And another type of food scarcity is what I call imposed food scarcity, and that is dieting. That is us actually imposing that scarcity on ourselves. And any time we have those type of traumatic experiences, we can lock ourselves in protection mode if it's been going on for so long, and then the body starts to adapt to it. And the behavior that we tend to see is the result of a coping mechanism such as emotional eating or binge eating. But also we see other behaviors that we also tend to relate to a need to escape, such as drinking or using cannabis or even overspending. All of that is just a different vehicle for the same thing, 

Rich Bennett 35:31
right. 

Sherry Shaban 35:31
which is really to try to escape something that is dysregulated. And so the community is an opportunity for women to join like minded people where we actually help them overcome unwanted eating behavior and other self-sabotaging behavior. We heal their relationship with food and more importantly, we here heal their traumas. And I say we, but really we just hold space and we provide the tools. And it really is the women that are doing this. And we have a course that they follow where they're learning all these techniques and tools and really just reconnecting back to their body because the body has this innate ability to let us know when we're hungry, when we're full, when we've had enough, and even tells us what it is that it wants. But we've steered so far away from that when we've dieted so much or we've relied on tracking devices or counting calories or points or any of these things to give us that external feedback. And so it's a it's a healing environment. And ultimately the goal is that by overcoming unwanted eating behavior, through shifting the nervous system, the body just naturally releases weight. It naturally starts to recover and restore. Because if you're not binge eating, then you're not overeating. And if you're not overeating, 

Rich Bennett 36:46
Right. 

Sherry Shaban 36:46
then you're not struggling with weight. 

Rich Bennett 36:49
This is for women. 

Sherry Shaban 36:50
This is for women right now. We. 

Rich Bennett 36:52
I can't join. 

Sherry Shaban 36:53
We actually have. It's funny that you say we actually do have a couple of men in the program for the exact same reason. This is women's only. R Right. 

Rich Bennett 37:04
One of the things I love to ask people, especially in your field, 

and if you can't share any, I understand, but if so, could you share a feel good story with somebody that you that you have coached and has gone through? Well, good, because you offer a lot more than just this. You offer a lot. But I guess when you're what do you call what do you call them? Clients? 

Sherry Shaban 37:32
Athletes. 

Rich Bennett 37:32
Family, huh? 

Sherry Shaban 37:34
I usually call them athletes. 

Rich Bennett 37:37
Okay. All right. You share a feel good story of one of the athletes that you've helped. 

Sherry Shaban 37:40
Yeah, so many came to mind. But I think I have to share this one. This is when I had my CrossFit gym, actually, and I had a lady that she first came to see me for private coaching and she signed up for 40 sessions and then we worked together in the summer. And then after that she's like, okay, Sheri Allgood You know, And I was kind of relieved because to be honest, she was she was kind of hard to work with. I remember I would give her an exercise and there was there would be a lot of resistance or I would encourage her to do something. And then, you know, she was always she was always getting upset with me for trying to push her. But then sure enough, she comes back after a few months and then she says to me, You know what? I'm ready to do this again. And this time I am committing for the full year and I want to sign up for the entire year. So I was like, okay, all right, I'm sure you can do this. And so we started working together. And again, I was still met with that same resistance. I would ask her to jump in a box. I was like, You know, I can't jump in a box. Why are you making me do this? And it was getting to the point where I was really, really about to to just have that conversation with her, which was that really, really hard conversation, which I don't think we're a magic. I don't think this is going to work. But then she says to me, You know what, Sheri? When I was in high school, I was voted most unathletic and they put a picture of me in the yearbook and I was known to be the most unathletic person and and I am unathletic. And so every time you call me an athlete, I just don't believe it because that's just how everyone's always seen me and nobody's ever believed in me. And it's just how I've always walked around feeling and thinking. And it was at that moment that I realized just how powerful identity is and the fact that she was holding on to this identity of being unathletic that she was Her photo is in the yearbook. She even sent me a photo of this this yearbook picture of her with that title. But because we are so attached to titles, because we are so attached to the way other people describe us, or even the way that we describe ourselves, that actually becomes our greatest limitations. And the moment that we know how to rewrite our identity is really how we set ourselves free. And so after that moment, I realize now the approach that I had to take with her and the approach that I had to take was more through affirmations and really rewire her thoughts and rewire her brain and more importantly, her self-concept, who she thought she was. And so I started to give her exercises around affirmations, and then all of a sudden she started jumping on that back box. All of a sudden she was doing her jumping pull ups. And that's when really all of a sudden her her progress just started to explode. And she started to see results. And so it's something I tend to see as a pattern for many of us, especially when we're starting our health and fitness journey, when we believe that we can't when we believe it's going to be hard to believe, when we believe it's never going to work for us or other people have told us, you're always going to be overweight. You know, it's never going to work for you. You know, you'll never be able to do it. And we actually believe that that's what blocks us. It's not all the things that we're doing. It's not the fact that we really can't. It's just we create that block simply by putting up that wall and deciding that it is impossible. 

Rich Bennett 40:53
Have you ever had any any people that you've worked with where you're trying to? I don't want to say, Well, it is fixing their mindset and no matter what you did, they just couldn't. 

Sherry Shaban 41:09
Yeah, that happens sometimes. And, you know, I think there's this the space when we're ready. And any time I've ever seen that or I've never experienced that, it really was because the person wasn't ready. And sometimes we have to push ourselves to that point of pain that that no tolerance limit. And we continue to get what we tolerate some more the more of that, whatever we're experiencing, as painful as it is, is still tolerable to us, then it's really, really hard to have that leverage for change. And so what I've actually noticed with those people is that, yeah, they'll, you know, maybe they'll end up stopping for a bit, but then they'll always come back. And when they do come back, that's when they're really ready. And it's really just a matter of just getting to that line in the sand moment where that's it. Something's. 

Rich Bennett 41:59
Right. I was going to say, because I know a lot of people, the first time that would happen, I would I would think that you felt like you failed. But, you know, you said they're coming. And you're right, they're not ready yet. But they're coming back. Which is a good thing. And you, the online coaching you do with people everywhere throughout the world, Right? 

Sherry Shaban 42:22
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 42:23
I should to tell people how they can say, Cherry. I want you to be my coach. 

Sherry Shaban 42:29
Well, thank you so much for that opportunity. I can be found easily on Instagram. So Sheri Shaaban, fitness is my handle. That's also my YouTube channel handle where I have workouts for you. My podcast is there, so you have an idea of my style. And then if you've resonated with the conversation around unwanted eating behavior, I do have a free download workbook for you to work through and get started on the journey, and you can grab that at Make peace with food dot com. 

Rich Bennett 43:00
That's the make piece of food community. I admit I didn't do it right again. Community eat. All right. I give. 

Sherry Shaban 43:09
That's close. That's close for the community that the website there is our community dot com But again it's it's it's a very beautiful special group and really really for those who are ready to let go of the behavior and ready to really step into the love of. 

Rich Bennett 43:29
How long did it take you to come up with that community? 

Sherry Shaban 43:33
It just it was just a download. It was just a download in my morning meditation. All of all of the things I do are just downloads. When I just connect to a higher power. I actually don't believe it's my idea. I just believe it's actually given to me. I just open up my antenna and it's it's just shared with me. 

Rich Bennett 43:55
I love it. I always loved the play on Word. I'd love that. I want to talk about something else very important, because it's awesome. And you've actually had some guest on that I've had on my iPod. 

Sherry Shaban 44:08
Nice. 

Rich Bennett 44:09
Fall in love with fitness. How did that come about? 

Sherry Shaban 44:13
Fall in love with fitness really describes describes the last 25 years of of the journey of really just learning to fall in love with yourself. Ultimately. And that's what it's about. And I just see a lot of people have resistance to fitness because fitness for them is a form of punishment for not being okay with who they are, for not being accepting of who they are. And normally we're told to diet and exercise when there's a defect that we're supposed to change. And so the conversation shown on that podcast is really to help people fall in love with the journey they present in and hear so many different conversations around people who've overcome major adversities and specialists from different areas of the world talking about things that are not so conventional. And it's really stepping away 

Rich Bennett 45:01
Well, right. 

Sherry Shaban 45:01
from diet. It's really stepping away from calories in, calories out balance and really understanding the mind, body and spirit connection that must be in balance for you to really create lasting change. 

Rich Bennett 45:14
How long ago did you start that? 

Sherry Shaban 45:16
That is a COVID baby. 

Rich Bennett 45:19
What? Are you sure? 

Sherry Shaban 45:22
The podcast is a COVID baby, and it actually came from from COVID. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:27
Well, congratulations, first of all, because a lot of people that have started their podcast during COVID are no longer doing it. And you kept you kept going, You're a millionaire now. You're 180 or no, 187 episodes in, Right? 

That is awesome. Where do you now? What do you do? Released once a month. 

Sherry Shaban 45:51
So it's 

Rich Bennett 45:51
Once a week. 

Sherry Shaban 45:52
it's a weekly conversation with a guest. And then every 

Rich Bennett 45:56
Okay. 

Sherry Shaban 45:56
Thursday I do a mini solo called Make Peace with Food, where I do specifically to talk about the nervous system and overcoming unwanted eating behavior and self-sabotage. 

Rich Bennett 46:08
So those of you listening that are thinking about starting a podcast, Sherri is already a successful podcaster because she hit that 100 mark and that's a lot of people don't even hit the ten mark, but you're well over 100, almost 200 now. And all of you listen, make sure you go to her podcast, which you can actually get it on all streaming platforms. But the one I always suggest is good page because you can also leave reviews about each episode. And she can respond back and you can subscribe there and everything. So make sure you go and listen to this podcast with your guest. Where do you find most of your guest? 

Sherry Shaban 46:51
So I find yes, on pod match, I find guests on talks. I find guests on. If I see them even on social media, if I see something inspiring, I will I would reach out. So. 

Rich Bennett 47:07
Tweet me your own pod match. 

Sherry Shaban 47:08
Am. 

Rich Bennett 47:11
Really? And the only reason I'm shocked is because we didn't connect through pod magic. And I get a lot of people from from pod. 

Sherry Shaban 47:19
Really? 

Rich Bennett 47:20
Yes, that is because that's one of the platforms I always suggest to people, especially authors. 

Sherry Shaban 47:27
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 47:28
They want to promote their book, which you know, you're going to be releasing probably within the next year. 

To get on the podcast with your podcast, which one of the biggest challenges you've had since besides started doing it, which actually could have been a blessing. 

Sherry Shaban 47:45
I think I think one of the greatest challenges I had was in the beginning really, really finding guests, connecting with guests, and also just being able to market it and and share it to a larger audience. And so after actually I joined that networking platform pod match, I was able to connect more, more guests have a lot more very interesting conversations. And so I just remember that being being a hurdle at one point, I was I was feeling that I wasn't connecting with the right type of people or the people that I was resonating with. So that was a big problem solver. 

Rich Bennett 48:21
What I got to make sure I phrase is the proper way because I don't. I hate it when people ask me what's my favorite episode? Because you can't have a favorite episode because you're always recording. But what and I'm sure there are several episodes that you've done that stand out, but what's one that you can, you know, mention to people, one of the guests that really stand out to you? 

Sherry Shaban 48:46
This is really a hard one, but it was season one. It was one of my probably within the first 30 or 40 episodes, I had Dr. Terry Walz on my show and she's just outstanding. She is. She was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis for many years. She was in a tilt, reclined wheelchair and through changing her nutrition and she created her own walls protocol. She was actually able to ride a bike. And so she's helping a lot of people overcome that that diagnosis and really believing that multiple sclerosis really means continuous degeneration over time. So I think that was probably one my fear. But honestly, it's it's that is a hard question, I have to say. It's a hard question. 

Rich Bennett 49:33
Well, that's I said it when you can think because they're you're right, it's hard and you're always having other guests on too. You mentioned DMS. Do you actually help people that have any type of, you know, like weather beams, Down syndrome or anything that you can share? 

Sherry Shaban 49:51
Yeah, I've worked with many people with M.S. and even cerebral palsy over the years. 

Rich Bennett 49:55
Really? 

Sherry Shaban 49:56
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 49:59
Oh, my God. That's got to make you feel so good. 

Sherry Shaban 50:03
It makes them feel so good. I'm great. 

Rich Bennett 50:05
Well. 

Sherry Shaban 50:05
I can hold space and just my belief is that fitness is possible for everyone. And it's just it's a matter of how we approach it and how we adapt and how we can get it to be so enjoyable. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 50:19
I, I just have to commend you on that, because 

just to help 

people, whether it be M.S. or cerebral palsy, a lot of people with Parkinson's are doing the boxing at all, and they feel so much better when they do it. So and 

I've always believed that if somebody and you're living proof, if somebody, especially your doctor, tells you you cannot do something, prove them wrong. And do it. And you see that a lot with people with different abilities. Yeah. Whether BMS or Down's syndrome, they're told they can't do something. Guess what? They're proving the people wrong. Which I love. Before I get to my last question, is there anything you would like to add? 

Sherry Shaban 51:12
Yeah. One last thing I would like to share with everyone is that it's never too late and it's sort of along the lines of what you're saying. And we oftentimes hear that, Oh, I'm 40 or now I'm 50 or I've been this way forever, but it is never too late. And what we have to do is look at what we can do 24 hours at a time, and whatever you can do, 24 hours at a time, whether that is walk for 5 minutes, whether that is to do ten squats, whether that's to drink more water or improve your sleep. Everything is a small deposit in your health and fitness bank account, and that accumulates over time. So it's never too late. And I even work with people in their eighties and they see results. And so if there is a will and there is a desire to really step into that place of self-love, there's always a way. 

Rich Bennett 52:00
Did you just say health and fitness bank account? Oh, my God. Love the. You got to put that on a shirt. 

Sherry Shaban 52:09
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 52:10
I love that you have come up with a lot of things. A lot of things I have never heard. 

Sherry Shaban 52:17
Thank you so much. 

Rich Bennett 52:18
All right, So. My last question. This is going to be hard for you. Are you ready? How many different podcasts have you been on as a guest? 

Sherry Shaban 52:27
Oh, maybe 100. Maybe. Maybe a hundred? 

Rich Bennett 52:33
Really? 

Sherry Shaban 52:33
I think so. 

Rich Bennett 52:34
Wow. 

Sherry Shaban 52:35
Somewhere around there. 

Rich Bennett 52:36
Okay. All right. This is why this is not live and this is why this is edited. Because every time I ask this question, my guest has to think for her. Is there anything a host has never asked you that you wish in a way they would have asked you? And if so, what would be that question? What would be your answer? 

Sherry Shaban 52:56
What is your greatest regret? 

Rich Bennett 53:01
You answer that too. Damn quick. 

And I have a funny feeling I'm going to know your answer. But what is your biggest regret? 

Sherry Shaban 53:11
My biggest regret is wasting time believing that I wasn't enough. That's my that's my biggest regret in life is wasting a moment of my life feeling like I wasn't enough or I wasn't doing enough or wasn't good enough. And if I could go back, I would appreciate myself for the commitment and the hard work and the dedication and just the continuing love and showing up that I did for myself. 

Rich Bennett 53:43
Maybe maybe it was somebody else planned for that to happen. So you could be the amazing person you are now and everybody you're helping. So I wanted to see you. And I thought you were going to say. I have no regret. You really threw me. You threw me off twice there because you you asked you answered that so quick and then you. Wow. 

Sherry, I want to thank you so much. It's been an honor and a true pleasure, continued success. And I know we're going to be talking. Well, we got to talk again because you're going to have to promote the. 

So, you know, without a doubt you're going to come on. Actually, even without the book, I know we're going to be talking again. So thank you so much. 

Sherry Shaban 54:29
Thank you, Rich.