Sincerely Divorced: Bethany Pace & Hillary Livingston Share Their Journey

Hillary Livingston 0:01
Sitting 

Rich Bennett 0:01
Sitting 

Hillary Livingston 0:02
here 

Rich Bennett 0:02
here. 

Hillary Livingston 0:02
with the two. 

Rich Bennett 0:03
Young ladies. They reached out to me, thanks to Patrick Chambers, about. 

Wendy Beck 0:08
There. 

Rich Bennett 0:10
I don't want I don't know if it's a business or what. We're going to find out about it and. It's called sincerely divorce. 

Bethany Pace 0:18
Even worse, I. 

Rich Bennett 0:18
I have to make sure I get it right. Hilary Livingston, Giddings Deputy. 

Hillary Livingston 0:25
Yes, you did. 

Rich Bennett 0:26
Crap. 

Hillary Livingston 0:27
A lot of syllables. 

Rich Bennett 0:28
Bethany, Peace. 

Bethany Pace 0:29
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 0:32
David. I'm like, Oh, God, I forgot the. Already. I should just said LG. Never mind. I can't even say. 

Hillary Livingston 0:42
Well, welcome. 

Rich Bennett 0:42
Ladies. 

Hillary Livingston 0:43
Thank 

Rich Bennett 0:43
First 

Hillary Livingston 0:43
you. 

Rich Bennett 0:43
of all, I so sincerely. 

Hillary Livingston 0:46
First. 

Rich Bennett 0:47
Before we actually get into that, give us a little bit of background about you both. Besides that, your sisters from different parents because 

Hillary Livingston 0:54
Like. 

Rich Bennett 0:57
Finish each other's sentences. 

Hillary Livingston 0:59
While we've known each other for over ten years, we started off as colleagues at Towson University. The big thing that we did there was we planned the commencement ceremonies for the university. 

Rich Bennett 1:11
Oh, well. 

Hillary Livingston 1:11
So, you know, it was a natural bridge to what we're doing now in a lot of ways. 

Bethany Pace 1:19
Because the one thing of. Mine is that it brings the community together. Right. And it brings the community together around a certain tradition. But that's one of the pieces that we enjoy, not just the external community of people that were coming to see their family members graduate, but. The internal community of colleagues that we truly have grown to love over time that are our friends and. 

Hillary Livingston 1:41
Since. 

Bethany Pace 1:42
And that's. That is 

Hillary Livingston 1:44
What is 

Bethany Pace 1:45
too. 

Hillary Livingston 1:45
worse. Which is. 

Bethany Pace 1:46
It's really a mission. It's a mission to change the narrative about the divorce experience and to eradicate the isolation of divorce. 

Rich Bennett 1:54
So I. 

Hillary Livingston 1:56
Yes. 

Bethany Pace 1:58
Already. 

Hillary Livingston 1:59
No. 

Rich Bennett 1:59
No. 

Hillary Livingston 2:00
Not at 

Bethany Pace 2:00
Yeah. So here's the interesting part. So we were colleagues and I was actually working in another department. And 

Hillary Livingston 2:08
And. 

Bethany Pace 2:08
then I was like, then moved over to another office, and that's when I became Hillary supervisor. And so we worked, you know, as a team, again, doing commencement and some other things. A lot of other things, but. But it's easier to say that it. 

Hillary Livingston 2:24
The other things opportunities 

Bethany Pace 2:25
Signed. And and so we had sort of two iterations of working together. But ultimately, after 

Hillary Livingston 2:32
for. 

Bethany Pace 2:32
working together, we became friends. We just connected our hearts, connected. We're both Virgos. We like, you know, that was like a big part of it, which is inconsequential. But August, September. 

Hillary Livingston 2:42
I'm in August right now. 

Bethany Pace 2:45
It was just like we celebrated birthdays around the same time. You know, all 

Rich Bennett 2:48
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 2:48
those things just created connections, right? I saw in Hillary just so much talent, you know, And I really felt that it had been underused. To be perfectly honest. And so as a as a manager, I was like, oh, she's she's amazing. She just needs, you know. The opportunity 

Rich Bennett 3:09
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 3:09
to grow into who she's meant to be. And so that's sort of how, you know, our hearts connected. Then, you know, pandemic job changes. She moved to Canada to support. 

Rich Bennett 3:22
What's. 

Bethany Pace 3:25
I know. You tell. Tell that part. That's. 

Hillary Livingston 3:27
So early? 2019. My ex-husband. Job opportunity. 

Rich Bennett 3:33
Okay. So you were divorced at this time. 

Hillary Livingston 3:34
No, 

Bethany Pace 3:35
Now. 

Hillary Livingston 3:35
no, I was. 

Bethany Pace 3:36
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 3:36
My husband at this 

Bethany Pace 3:37
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 3:37
point. 

Bethany Pace 3:37
Okay. Dylan married. What? We're talking about B.D. 

Hillary Livingston 3:40
Yes. 

Bethany Pace 3:40
before divorce. 

Hillary Livingston 3:41
Yeah. Yeah, I like. 

Time. 

So he received a job opportunity to work in Montreal. And yeah, so at first I was like, no, no way we're doing that. And then it just, you know, how life aligns. And 

Rich Bennett 3:58
Yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 3:58
it started to become the right decision for us at the time. And I, you know, I lived in Hartford County my whole life. I mean, it went to a way to college, but ultimately returned. So it was going to be a big change. My family's all around here. It was a rough 

Rich Bennett 4:12
that's got to 

Hillary Livingston 4:12
period 

Rich Bennett 4:12
be 

Hillary Livingston 4:13
of time. And I guess I thought in my mind I was like, Well, we're just going to Canada, just up the border. But like, I mean, it French first. Everything is different. Like, I mean, most people are bilingual, but everything is French first, which was more intimidating than I thought. 

Rich Bennett 4:32
feel 

Hillary Livingston 4:32
I mean, 

Rich Bennett 4:32
all. 

Hillary Livingston 4:32
yeah, it was very. And of course, the I you know, our son at the time was one and a half. 

Rich Bennett 4:38
Oh, my God. 

Hillary Livingston 4:39
So it was a big life transition and it was honestly the probably the beginning of the end of our marriage. 

Rich Bennett 4:47
Right. 

Bethany Pace 4:48
Because this is 2019. 

Hillary Livingston 4:49
This is 2019, so it ended up moving there in June. So I quit my job. And she also had a job change at the same point in time. But because we had this connection, we remained close, like through the pandemic, through with a Canada experience. The Canadian experience, I guess, and, you know, the following year was the pandemic. And then 2021, I became pregnant unexpectedly with our daughter. So was our second child. And I remember her and I got dinner and she was like, I have something really important to tell you. And I had just told her I was pregnant and she was like, I'm getting a divorce. And I was like. Oh, my gosh. Like I was, you know, shocked and not totally shocked, but like, you know, it was still a shocking conversation to have. And, you know, I was. 

Rich Bennett 5:41
You're still in Montreal at this time. 

Hillary Livingston 5:42
No, I had moved back. 

Rich Bennett 5:43
Oh, 

Hillary Livingston 5:43
I we lived there for about a year, 

Rich Bennett 5:45
okay. 

Hillary Livingston 5:45
a little less than a year. And this is. 

Bethany Pace 5:47
2021. 

Hillary Livingston 5:48
This is 

Bethany Pace 5:48
Like 

Hillary Livingston 5:48
2021. 

Bethany Pace 5:49
all this? 

Hillary Livingston 5:49
Yeah. So and I was in 2021, I was living in Wilmington, Delaware. So I, 

Rich Bennett 5:57
He'll 

Hillary Livingston 5:57
like I 

Rich Bennett 5:57
be 

Hillary Livingston 5:57
said, 

Rich Bennett 5:57
closer to 

Hillary Livingston 5:58
a little 

Rich Bennett 5:58
his. 

Hillary Livingston 5:58
bit closer. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. We had kind of moved around a lot for like a good period of time. But so, you know, I divorce wasn't even on my radar. And then by the end of 2021, I was getting divorced. It happened very quickly. So we had very different divorce experiences. 

Bethany Pace 6:19
Right, because I filed for divorce and I was married 22 years. 

Rich Bennett 6:22
Whoa. 

Bethany Pace 6:23
Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Had been married 22 years. I have two daughters. We have two daughters. And it was. There had been years. Right. Nothing happens overnight. And years of consideration. I think also the pandemic. I mean, living with someone who you already maybe have some some challenges, you know, exacerbated it. And I just really. Through therapy and lots of other just reading decided to choose myself and decided to choose a happier future. Yeah. And and I wanted my daughters to know that you can do hard things. And I wanted them to know the happiest version of me. And that person was not able to show up anymore. And that's the part that really sort of, I think, you know, pulled at my heartstrings the most is that, you know, in a relationship, I want them I want a model for them. How partners should treat one another. They weren't seeing that anymore. And so when people are like, oh, stay for the kids and do it 

Rich Bennett 7:27
You 

Bethany Pace 7:27
because. 

Rich Bennett 7:27
can always. 

Bethany Pace 7:28
You can't because 

Rich Bennett 7:29
Well, 

Bethany Pace 7:29
it. 

Rich Bennett 7:30
you you don't want to stay free because. And you said it right there. It's. Going 

Bethany Pace 7:36
Going 

Rich Bennett 7:37
through. 

Bethany Pace 7:37
through the. 

Rich Bennett 7:37
Divorce can be better for 

Bethany Pace 7:39
The kids. 

Rich Bennett 7:40
Because the last thing kids want to do is see the parents at. 

Bethany Pace 7:44
Right. Right. 

Rich Bennett 7:44
At each other, clashing heads and all. 

Bethany Pace 7:46
Exactly. No, no, you're absolutely right, though. They don't they don't want to see us in pain, you know, And my kids at that point were 17 and ten. 

Rich Bennett 7:56
Okay? 

Bethany Pace 7:57
And so still, you know, my the oldest was a senior in high school and the youngest in elementary school. But they got it that 

Rich Bennett 8:04
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 8:04
they understood, you know, when I said just that simply, I want you to know the happiest version of me and that you can do hard things to make your life better. And so I also joke and I think I post about this recently is like. Can I see myself changing this man's diapers in 30 years? Because the for better or worse, I mean, I'm just keeping it 100. But seriously, you 

Hillary Livingston 8:31
You 

Bethany Pace 8:31
have 

Hillary Livingston 8:31
have 

Bethany Pace 8:31
to 

Hillary Livingston 8:31
to 

Bethany Pace 8:31
think 

Hillary Livingston 8:31
think about. 

Bethany Pace 8:31
about this. You know, it's 

Rich Bennett 8:33
I never. 

Bethany Pace 8:34
Yeah. I never thought about. 

Hillary Livingston 8:36
That. 

Rich Bennett 8:37
I. 

Bethany Pace 8:37
I just told my kids. 

Rich Bennett 8:38
Look, here's the deal. I changed your diapers when you were babies. If it gets to the point where I get too old and I got to wear diapers, you got to change my. 

Bethany Pace 8:46
Yeah, the kids. But like the spouse, I was, I mean, you know, I had to really think, you know, think through like, well, what could the next 20 years look like? You know, and, 

Rich Bennett 8:54
How. 

Bethany Pace 8:55
and, and how how will I feel at that point? You know? So again, we try to have some humor and some levity 

Wendy Beck 9:02
Right 

Bethany Pace 9:02
along 

Wendy Beck 9:02
now. 

Bethany Pace 9:02
with our stories, you know. But but yeah, I felt like the best way forward for my husband and I at that point was to be separate. And and that was right, because now my kids call him my bestie, you know, which is funny. They would have never said that while we were married. 

Wendy Beck 9:19
Right. 

Bethany Pace 9:19
Right. 

Hillary Livingston 9:20
Which is. 

Wendy Beck 9:21
Well, it's funny. 

Hillary Livingston 9:23
Specifically What? 

Rich Bennett 9:25
Well, I do now. 

Wendy Beck 9:26
And he was like reached out to me and he said, Are you going to. I was on vacation. I said, Are you going to come and join us on this podcast? And I had just like, you know, glanced over the the invite a little bit and I saw the. 

Sincerely divorce. So when he reached out to me, he said, Are you going to join us? And I said. Yes, I'm going to join you. But why did you pick me as a co-host? Because you think I'm the poster child for divorce. 

I said, no, it's because I know that you. 

Rich Bennett 10:03
Yeah, but. 

Hillary Livingston 10:04
It's a very unique experience. 

Bethany Pace 10:05
Experience. 

Rich Bennett 10:06
No, I've been experience it. 

Bethany Pace 10:08
Who's the. 

Wendy Beck 10:09
No, you did not. 

Bethany Pace 10:10
People. 

Wendy Beck 10:11
You did not. Of course. Yes. You know. You know, there's not many things that I'm an expert at, but I've been divorced three times. So. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 10:21
It's a divorce. Right? Let's. 

Wendy Beck 10:26
I'm all in. I want to hear what these ladies have to say. And, yeah, I can certainly contribute to this journey. 

Rich Bennett 10:33
Actually question for both of you, because I know with my son's mother, her and I get along better now than when we were together. Is it that way for both of you, two of your exes? Isn't it funny how that works? 

Bethany Pace 10:45
He all the pressure, the pressure, the expectations, like and just again, it's just just the pressure of the emotions and the hurt and all of those things that accumulate. And then after the divorce, you know, at least for us, certainly we know there's no cookie cutter. 

Rich Bennett 11:03
Mm hmm. 

Bethany Pace 11:04
Solution. But but those things sort You know, to the extent that it's like, Oh, okay, we've got a shared. 

Wendy Beck 11:12
Well, you can look back and say, okay, this is a human being. 

Rich Bennett 11:15
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 11:16
It doesn't always end up with besties, though. It does not. 

Bethany Pace 11:20
I think. 

Hillary Livingston 11:21
I think it's easier for me. To be cordial and to be friendly because I'm just so much happier 

Rich Bennett 11:28
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 11:29
not being married. And I mean not not not being married, but not being married to this person because we were so incompatible. And I think divorce really forces you to take a look at your life and do an inventory of all the the the the behaviors, all the the things in your life that that maybe don't serve you or. 

Rich Bennett 11:51
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 11:51
Or maybe you were doing them in the service of protecting this marriage, which has now fallen apart. And so I think it's a really unique opportunity to become connected, reconnected with yourself, and to really, you know, choose like, as Bethany said, choose yourself 

Bethany Pace 12:06
Right. 

Hillary Livingston 12:07
and. Because I my philosophy is the 

Bethany Pace 12:10
The. 

Hillary Livingston 12:10
bet the more that you take. 

Bethany Pace 12:11
Take care of yourself. 

Hillary Livingston 12:12
Yourself, the better that you can do for the world, the better that you can do. The the better you can show up better in so many different ways, whether that's parenting at your job, you know, with your friends, with your ex-spouse. You know, when you're taking care of yourself, you're inevitably going to do better for everyone else. 

Rich Bennett 12:30
And the other thing is to it's you know, you mentioned. 

Hillary Livingston 12:33
I think. 

Rich Bennett 12:34
Think 

Hillary Livingston 12:34
I 

Rich Bennett 12:34
of 

Hillary Livingston 12:34
think. 

Rich Bennett 12:34
the kids. Well, divorce can lead to the kids being happier and. Hopefully both parents are good 

Bethany Pace 12:42
Good role 

Rich Bennett 12:43
role. 

Bethany Pace 12:43
models for the kids, 

Rich Bennett 12:44
Kids. 

Bethany Pace 12:45
right? 

Rich Bennett 12:45
It sounds like that is the case. What actually led you guys to start Sincerely divorced. Besides the divorce part. 

Bethany Pace 12:57
So again. 

Hillary Livingston 12:58
We found ourselves. 

Bethany Pace 12:59
Going through divorce, although under very different circumstances. But at the same time, we would not have made it without each other. I mean, you know, you don't plan to have a team approach to divorce, but here we were. And we just realized, like how isolating it is. It's like, you know, other people are getting divorced, but no one's talking about it or you don't know who who it is, because at least in my case, I have been married over 20 years and our friends were married, you know, And so it's not like I just open up my little phone and see who the other divorced people are. So if it was not for. US and what we had and through text messages and and lunches and some very sad moments in the car and and all of those things, we would not have made it to where we are now, feeling like our lives, our sort of are more authentic. 

Rich Bennett 13:49
Right. 

Bethany Pace 13:50
And and and so we we don't want anyone else to feel as isolated as we know the divorce experience can be. And so we were we were sitting in the car while Walgreen's 

Hillary Livingston 14:03
Parking lot. We were in the car probably. I don't even know we were on the phone. We 

Bethany Pace 14:07
where. 

Hillary Livingston 14:07
weren't even in the car together. But I remember specifically that I was parked in the Walgreens parking. 

Bethany Pace 14:11
And I was in the Safeway parking lot. 

Wendy Beck 14:15
Just happened. 

Hillary Livingston 14:16
But. 

Rich Bennett 14:18
No. 

Hillary Livingston 14:18
I don't know. It was. 

Wendy Beck 14:20
Hiding, maybe, or hide. A minute to yourself, honestly. 

Bethany Pace 14:23
Yeah, Honestly, probably. 

Rich Bennett 14:25
Like 

Hillary Livingston 14:25
Like 

Rich Bennett 14:25
your. 

Hillary Livingston 14:25
that. 

And we I mean, we had always kicked around the idea of, you know, starting some kind of, you know, side business or something together because, you know, we we always knew we had worked well together and we 

Rich Bennett 14:38
Right. 

Hillary Livingston 14:39
and then we had this, like, incredible. 

Experience of divorce that, you know, we were feeling like we're you know, we're we're on to something with with this concept. And I think I don't remember if it was you or I that was like, we should just start a support group in Hartford. Yeah, it was. We should just start a support group in Hartford County because there's not one that exists or there was one, but it was inactive and. 

Rich Bennett 15:04
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 15:05
You know, and it. 

Wendy Beck 15:06
To just to interject for one second, because the first time I got divorced. Yes, I'm saying that out loud. 

Bethany Pace 15:13
Yes. No shame. 

Hillary Livingston 15:14
Shame. 

Wendy Beck 15:15
Oh, no, no, no, no, no. 

Hillary Livingston 15:16
Go. 

Wendy Beck 15:16
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 15:16
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 15:18
I. 

Rich Bennett 15:19
Go ahead. 

Wendy Beck 15:20
The. The journey started and there wasn't any support. And, you know. That relationship. For me, it was more of like an outgrowing. I outgrew the relationship. You know, we're very young. We're 19 years old. When we got together, ended up having a child, got married, and then for those, you know, ten years of our relationship. 

I just outgrew him. I outgrew the relationship. I had never had a chance to get to know who I was because it was such an early, early stage of my life. So I remember, you know, coming back to Harper County because we had lived in Florida for a while. You know, we had the whole, you know, job transition and re locating scenario. And then when I came back here, there was no support at the time. There was a group called and I don't know if you ever heard of it or if it even still exists. It was parents without partners. 

Rich Bennett 16:15
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 16:15
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 16:16
Okay. Well, let me tell you something. 

That was more about, let's find a hookup, you know. So that did not last for me for very long. I was like, No, I didn't like that. So yeah, so, you know, it it is a solo experience. So how could people, you know, connect with you and what have you done? 

Bethany Pace 16:36
Yeah, well, we started, I mean, again, this parking lot, you know, she said we should do this. And I was like, Should we? And then we, we, you know, it sunk in and we started talking and we we conjured the name sincerely, I think. 

Hillary Livingston 16:49
Coined the name. 

Bethany Pace 16:50
I coin the name. And then. 

Wendy Beck 16:51
I like it, 

Bethany Pace 16:52
Thank 

Wendy Beck 16:52
too. 

Bethany Pace 16:52
you. And then she because you know what a core part of the 

Hillary Livingston 16:54
The 

Bethany Pace 16:55
support 

Hillary Livingston 16:55
support. 

Bethany Pace 16:55
that we have for each other is writing notes. We love to write notes, 

Rich Bennett 17:00
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 17:00
you know, about anything. And but that was one of the key ways we supported each other. And it's actually one of the cool parts of how what's in divorce looks like today, because we write notes to kids at SARC that are being served by SARC and to the families that are being served by Sarge is notes of encouragement, you know, for whatever they wherever they are in the journey. And because it's a core part of who we are, that's how I sort of came up with Sincerely Divorced because it was the, you know, how we close out those messages to to one another. And then she came up with the tagline one, You know what now? 

Hillary Livingston 17:37
Break down and glow up. 

Bethany Pace 17:38
Yeah. Navigating divorce. One break in. 

Hillary Livingston 17:40
That's what it feels like. 

Bethany Pace 17:41
Because that's what it feels like. So glow 

Hillary Livingston 17:43
Glow up. 

Bethany Pace 17:43
up. Glow up. Yeah. Navigating divorce one break down and glow up at a time. Because we want to celebrate the range of of experiences. 

Wendy Beck 17:50
Which 

Bethany Pace 17:51
So. 

Wendy Beck 17:51
there is a big range. 

Bethany Pace 17:52
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 17:52
You're going to go like boop, boop, boop 

Bethany Pace 17:54
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 17:54
all the time, up and 

Hillary Livingston 17:55
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 17:55
down. 

Bethany Pace 17:56
I was going to say, yeah, like, you know, I may have picked up my ex's dry cleaning a couple of weeks ago, but who knows what next week looks? No, but, but yeah. So we started with like a online seminar, not an online seminar, but kind of like an online meet up. That was like navigating the holidays after divorce and, you know, so we were so we were super excited. You know, we were prepared. We you know, we was. 

Hillary Livingston 18:20
Right in our wheelhouse because we had done presentations before. 

Bethany Pace 18:24
Right, a thousand. 

Hillary Livingston 18:24
Yes. 

Bethany Pace 18:25
And, you know, using our little masters, our master's degrees and and whatnot. And so we had a whole lot. He had ground rules at school is going. It advertised, you know, And one person came and we were like. 

Hillary Livingston 18:38
Just one. That's all we. 

Bethany Pace 18:39
That's all. 

Wendy Beck 18:40
Okay? Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 18:41
Person, you know, and we love her to this day because she's still part of the group. And then like the following week, we had our first, like, coffee meet up. We call it coffee and conversation. And again, just one just one person came and we love her too, to this day. But that's how we knew that this is important. 

Rich Bennett 19:00
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 19:00
We didn't need. 

Wendy Beck 19:01
A lot of courage to show up. It really does. When you go into a group where you have no idea what to expect. They didn't know you. They didn't know who else was going to be there. They put themselves in a really vulnerable situation and they found comfort, 

Bethany Pace 19:15
Right. Because our hearts connect, even though the experiences are different. We all know that we never set out when we got married to get divorced, 

Wendy Beck 19:23
Right? 

Bethany Pace 19:24
you know? And so that grounds the conversation in a way that it can't be grounded with someone else who doesn't who doesn't know that. So that so that was the beginning. And then after that, like, more people just started coming and they started telling people and we've had some really great supporters. Let's shout out Meghan at Love Evolution Yoga. That was one of our first group. She didn't often mainstream with this. 

Rich Bennett 19:48
Yeah, I've heard of them. I'm. 

Bethany Pace 19:50
Yeah, she. 

Hillary Livingston 19:51
Bond Street. 

Bethany Pace 19:52
Bond Street. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 19:53
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 19:54
Exactly. Someone in the group said, you know what you guys should do? Like a bigger event, you know? And so we're like, okay. You know? And then we're like, Yeah, let's do yoga. And so we did a yoga class and we had probably 12 or 13 people come to that. And that's when that was April, and that's when things really started to, like, just grow from there. While also maintaining our online community on Instagram, that that's the biggest group audience that we have. But and then everything else just has been this journey of hearts connecting and and building. That that 

Hillary Livingston 20:29
That's 

Bethany Pace 20:29
is really 

Hillary Livingston 20:29
really what. 

Bethany Pace 20:29
vibrant and supportive. And. Yeah, so. 

Wendy Beck 20:34
Well, it's a it's a form of a recovery community. 

Rich Bennett 20:37
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 20:38
I love that. Yeah. Because and again, you know, I've been through it and it was tough. It was tough the first time, you know, because it was an out grow situation. It was tough. This. 

Hillary Livingston 20:49
Because. 

Wendy Beck 20:49
Because there was addiction involved in, you know, mice, my spouse and my daughter. And to be able to sustain a relationship under those circumstances is really hard. And because of that, leaving the relationship, you know, the first time was the first time, you know, whatever. I think it's like whatever. The second time was brutal, all because it felt more like a failure because of the addiction 

Bethany Pace 21:14
Addiction. 

Wendy Beck 21:14
side. And I'm going to be honest, like, I think what you're doing is fabulous because those 

people literally were not supporting me for my divorce because they didn't understand what I was going through. And because I had the addiction piece involved, not for myself, but for my loved ones, that even kept me even more isolated from other people. So, you know, even to this day, there's people in my life that never resurfaced because of that divorce. And that's really hard. And when you lose a relationship, you're not taking that lightly. You know, this this is a big deal. 

Bethany Pace 21:55
And how horrible it is to lose additional relationships on top of that. 

Wendy Beck 21:59
Yes. 

Bethany Pace 21:59
So it compounds the idea of loss there because those other people have sort of receded. That's. That's 

Wendy Beck 22:07
Because 

Bethany Pace 22:07
how. 

Wendy Beck 22:08
of their own morals or their opinions or whatever, or lack of understanding. 

Hillary Livingston 22:13
That's the biggest piece to is I mean, I had I mean, I was so lucky that I had so, like, my family was really supportive and, you know, I had friends 

Bethany Pace 22:20
It's that 

Hillary Livingston 22:21
that 

Bethany Pace 22:21
we're 

Hillary Livingston 22:21
were supportive. 

Bethany Pace 22:21
supporting. 

Hillary Livingston 22:21
But I mean, if unless you've been through it, it's it's hard to it's hard to articulate what, you know, the the the wide range of emotions and transitions and, you know, things that you go through during it. And it's it's hard to know. I mean, I know in their defense, it's hard to know how to support somebody like that if you haven't also been through that journey. 

Bethany Pace 22:47
Which is part of a lot of some of what we write, too. We write very much to people that love someone going through through divorce. So it's like sincerely divorce. It is for people that have been divorced, but it's also for the people that love us, you know, because we want to teach them that. Sometimes you say congratulations, you know, maybe the first response is and, oh, I'm so sorry, because it could be a great thing, or it's just listening or How can I help you? But people also need to be encouraged that they can be there for someone. Because you're right. Too often people are like, Oh, this is this. This seems like, you know, something I can't condone. And a lot of times faith is at the center of that 

Wendy Beck 23:28
I've had 

Bethany Pace 23:29
because, 

Wendy Beck 23:29
that. 

Bethany Pace 23:29
you know. 

Wendy Beck 23:30
Only members. 

Bethany Pace 23:31
And I'm like, I'm sorry, but Jesus loves me and Jesus wants me to be happy. And that's where I am with it. You know, but there are a lot of faith communities that just discard you because of divorce, you know? And so, again, that goes back to our mission that, you know, divorce is not a story of shame and failure. We refuse to believe that, you know, it is a story of strength and empowerment and community. And that is what changes the game. 

Wendy Beck 23:57
I agree with that. 

Hillary Livingston 23:58
You asked the question earlier, so what what are you. And I 

Wendy Beck 24:03
What? 

Hillary Livingston 24:03
think you did what what are you are you a business or are you a support group? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that's a too existential. But. 

But I think. 

Bethany Pace 24:14
Answer 

Hillary Livingston 24:14
Or 

Bethany Pace 24:14
to 

Hillary Livingston 24:14
to that 

Bethany Pace 24:14
that 

Hillary Livingston 24:14
question 

Bethany Pace 24:14
question 

Hillary Livingston 24:15
as 

Bethany Pace 24:15
is 

Hillary Livingston 24:15
that 

Bethany Pace 24:15
that 

Hillary Livingston 24:15
we're 

Bethany Pace 24:15
we're. 

Hillary Livingston 24:15
a movement that we are trying to change the narrative and we're 

Wendy Beck 24:20
Love 

Hillary Livingston 24:20
trying 

Wendy Beck 24:20
it. 

Hillary Livingston 24:20
to. 

Wendy Beck 24:20
Mm. Well, let's take that movement and let's let's take it back to when we were a little girls, because I've had, you know, these conversations and I've had these thoughts and I'm a mother and, you know, the the prince on the horse is not showing up. 

Hillary Livingston 24:35
Now. 

Wendy Beck 24:36
He's not freakin showing up. So now we the thing is, a lot of women. Think that their 

Rich Bennett 24:45
Feel I 

Wendy Beck 24:45
role. 

Rich Bennett 24:45
a. Here. 

Wendy Beck 24:48
No, it's it's the truth. And it's like we are we are evolved. As 

Rich Bennett 24:53
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 24:53
a as a as a humanity. And you know, that reason that women would be expected to get married way back when was so they could be taken care of. 

Hillary Livingston 25:02
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 25:02
And now we're learning to take care of ourselves. And I think that what you saw with your daughters, you want them to see the best version of yourself and how you're doing it without a partner that's dragging you down. 

Bethany Pace 25:15
Yeah. And, and I mean, the cool thing about Sincerely Divorced I will say is that we are intentionally inclusive. So there's a lot of divorce accounts and things out there, but we have at least 35% of our followers I think are men 

Rich Bennett 25:29
Really? 

Bethany Pace 25:29
and yeah. And are support. 

Rich Bennett 25:31
If it was open. 

Bethany Pace 25:31
Yeah. Our support group has men. It is men and women. And that is really like when we have had many conversations about this, you know, because a lot of times it's women that are talking about it, but there's so much that we can learn from each other. And we are just again, community builders and in community includes all of us. You know, all genders, all ages, races, all relationship types, and that we're leading from sort of a place of love to heal together. 

Wendy Beck 26:00
Fabulous. You have such a great background to like pull all of this in because you know someone who doesn't have the experience that you have with, you know, even at the college when you first started, wouldn't be able to like, have that much foresight. And I love it. I really do, because it's a rough time. 

Bethany Pace 26:20
It is. It is. And, you know, like you said, it's like narratives are changing. But but we need this movement is important because, you know, everybody may maybe the societal things that we've been told our whole lives, you know, we don't have to follow anymore. And to your point about the things women are told or, you know, and and the things men are told, for that matter, you know. 

Hillary Livingston 26:43
Yeah. I don't think that there's always a place for men to find this kind of support, because a lot of times when we have, you know, the men that are active in the group or the men that are interested always are hesitant because they're like, Is this just for women? Like, 

Rich Bennett 26:57
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 26:57
would I be welcome here? And it's a little bit intimidating for them to to come because, you know, they there's not there's not resources like this that generally exist for men as that are 

Rich Bennett 27:09
No. 

Hillary Livingston 27:09
easily as accessible or, you know, a societal be accepted by society in a way that it is for women. So I mean, it is a double it is a double standard for men in that in that aspect, I think. 

Bethany Pace 27:24
Right. And, you know, men are not always the villain, you know, or the deadbeat. And women are not always the money. Money grabbers like, you know, want to take someone to the bank. You know, the these are the sort of prevalent images. 

Wendy Beck 27:37
That's the stigma. 

Bethany Pace 27:38
Yeah, exactly. 

Wendy Beck 27:39
More stigma you have. 

Bethany Pace 27:41
Mm. 

Wendy Beck 27:41
I mean, there's tons of reasons. Like I said, you outgrow the relationship. 

Bethany Pace 27:44
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 27:44
You know, there's abuse, There's, you know, addiction. There's. 

Bethany Pace 27:48
Infidelity 

Wendy Beck 27:49
Of 

Bethany Pace 27:49
thing? 

Wendy Beck 27:49
things, the loss of a child. Like 

Bethany Pace 27:51
Yup. 

Wendy Beck 27:51
there's a ton of things that, you know, are that wedge in that relationship. And then society makes you feel like a failure. Whether, like you said, it's faith, faith based or family or friends or now they're not a couple anymore. We can't invite them over because who am I going to talk to now 

Hillary Livingston 28:09
People 

Wendy Beck 28:09
that. 

Hillary Livingston 28:09
make a lot of assumption. 

Wendy Beck 28:10
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 28:11
Yeah. 

Because I had friends of mine I met there one. 

Wendy Beck 28:18
You come over to the house? 

Rich Bennett 28:21
He would bring his ex-wife. Time. And he actually introduces a. 

Bethany Pace 28:27
Ex-wife. 

Rich Bennett 28:28
To a friend, and now they're together. 

Hillary Livingston 28:32
But they still go ahead and 

Rich Bennett 28:32
Do 

Hillary Livingston 28:32
do. 

Rich Bennett 28:33
things. 

Bethany Pace 28:33
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 28:33
Believe it. 

Rich Bennett 28:34
My son's mother actually is a member. 

Bethany Pace 28:36
The club. 

Rich Bennett 28:37
Her. You know, I'm friends with her husband now. 

Bethany Pace 28:41
Now. Uh huh. 

Rich Bennett 28:43
I think we have to. 

Bethany Pace 28:44
Children. 

Rich Bennett 28:45
Big difference because. 

You're they're going to be a part of your life no matter what. 

Bethany Pace 28:52
Even if 

Rich Bennett 28:52
If 

Bethany Pace 28:53
you're 

Rich Bennett 28:53
you're divorced, 

Bethany Pace 28:53
forced. 

Rich Bennett 28:53
if you have kids, there's still going to be a part of your life. So it's best to get along, you know, And that's. 

Wendy Beck 29:00
At first, people's feelings are hurt. Who? Whatever. Whoever is the one who wants the divorce, the other one, you know, can be heartbroken or, you know, digging in their heels and saying, no, no, I don't want this. Let's make it work. And you know, it's going to take some. Growth and maturity to get to that space where you are. Because I'm sure it wasn't the first day. 

Bethany Pace 29:22
Exactly and support because there's so many conversations we have with members of our support group, like via text, you know, like my daughter just invited my ex and his new girlfriend to her, you know, recital. 

I'm feeling a little, you know, uncertain about this, 

Wendy Beck 29:43
Right. 

Bethany Pace 29:43
you know, And we just like workshop it as a group, you know, like supporting her, like she she knew that that, that that was a good thing. You know, her daughter wants feels like this person is supporting her and so more love. Yes. Yes to that. And and and at the same time it feels like. 

Wendy Beck 30:02
Tough. 

Bethany Pace 30:03
Like this other person. She wants this other person there. And so we work through that is on a group chat. Like four of us, you know, saying like, hey, you know, yeah, feel that, feel all of that. And also. Yeah. Because it's complicated and also, you know, show up, you know, as the person that loves her and wants her to be loved, you know. 

Rich Bennett 30:26
So you guys meet virtually as well. Or is it just chat? 

Hillary Livingston 30:30
Everything. 

Rich Bennett 30:32
Do like zoom calls. 

Hillary Livingston 30:33
Yep. 

Bethany Pace 30:33
Yeah. Like, we have a we have a zoom. We've done a couple of Zoom coffee and conversations and we're doing a happy hour next week. But we primarily started in person, so we still do a lot of in-person things. In fact, our our biggest event to date was a couple of weeks ago at Hopkins Farm Brewery, and we had we just called it our fall event, but over a hundred people registered and 

Rich Bennett 30:54
Wow. 

Bethany Pace 30:54
we people came from Philadelphia to this event. 

Rich Bennett 30:58
That's awesome. 

Bethany Pace 30:59
And it was. 

Wendy Beck 31:00
It's like a meet and greet or. 

Bethany Pace 31:01
It was. It was. 

Wendy Beck 31:02
That is more of like some kind of workshop or. 

Hillary Livingston 31:05
It was. It 

Bethany Pace 31:06
Just 

Hillary Livingston 31:06
was. 

Bethany Pace 31:06
people. Just divorced. People hanging out. 

Wendy Beck 31:08
Okay. 

Bethany Pace 31:08
You know, enjoying the weather, you know, in the community. 

Wendy Beck 31:11
Yes. 

Bethany Pace 31:11
You know, that was the most interesting thing. It's like a place where you don't have to justify, well, why did you get divorced or why are you divorced or like, there's just this immediate understanding. It's a safe space, you know, And there was live music and, you know, and we're good at events. 

Hillary Livingston 31:28
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 31:28
Yeah. You know, so. So that's like our wheelhouse. So. So we made it, you know, custom cookies, all kinds of fun things. But it was it was it was everyone's common shared experience that really brought it together and lulled everyone to mingle. You know, there's a little groups of people. There are men, There are women, again, all ages, all races, all relationship types, like it was actually like what we envisioned when we set out. But in this large setting that, you know, again, it was our first time doing it. We weren't sure what was going to happen, but what happened was beautiful. 

Rich Bennett 31:59
And are you both still working full time? 

Hillary Livingston 32:01
Now. 

Rich Bennett 32:02
So this is your full time job. 

Bethany Pace 32:04
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 32:05
All right, now, crazy question. How are you making money? What's that crazy question? 

Wendy Beck 32:11
It's a good question. 

Bethany Pace 32:12
It is a good question. You know what? We really are letting our authenticity lead us and in our enthusiasm. And, you know, we always have ideas. And so definitely we are thinking about a podcast and trying to pull the. Together. But. 

Rich Bennett 32:29
That afterwards. 

Bethany Pace 32:30
Okay. Okay, great. And we recently hired an intellectual property attorney to really protect our idea. And we know that this is this is special. And so we want to sort of we've been putting those things in place. I think we will do more events. So at the event that we had a couple of weeks ago, we had sponsors. So we had a law firm. We had two realtors and we had 

Wendy Beck 32:53
All who 

Bethany Pace 32:53
more. 

Wendy Beck 32:53
benefit from divorces, By the way. 

Bethany Pace 32:55
Exactly. Yeah. Lender. 

Wendy Beck 32:58
Yes. 

Bethany Pace 32:58
And so they each sponsored the table like it wasn't salesy. Like, we're very clear that, like, you know, we want people that are going to support our community. Maybe resources we're not thinking about or that we all need. And so they sponsored a table and that allowed us to pay for the tent that we rented. So, you know, we sort of it was like breaking even. You know, but that to us is is is good, you know, because we've been basically spending our own money since since we started. And that's okay because we believe 

Wendy Beck 33:29
The life 

Bethany Pace 33:29
in. 

Wendy Beck 33:29
of an entrepreneur. 

Bethany Pace 33:30
Yeah, exactly. But we also realized that that I was working still full time. Hillary's been, like, full time, mom, but I. 

Hillary Livingston 33:40
A year and a half, so. 

Bethany Pace 33:40
So. 

Hillary Livingston 33:42
You know it. 

Wendy Beck 33:42
It's hard. 

Hillary Livingston 33:43
It's hard. 

Wendy Beck 33:43
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 33:43
Yeah. Yeah, but. But I stopped working full time, too. So we can do this because 

Wendy Beck 33:48
That's awesome. 

Bethany Pace 33:48
it's exciting and. 

Wendy Beck 33:50
It is exciting and it's always it's always cool when you touch on like a new frontier because, you know, there's been so much that's just. I don't know about divorce that everyone has just automatically assumed. And like there's very. What am I trying to say? It's really hard to break into a new. For an old thing. Does that make it okay? That was not how I wanted to say it, but that's the way it came out. Okay, So 

Rich Bennett 34:23
Good. 

Wendy Beck 34:23
no. Okay, so, yeah, because, like, hey, I've been through it and like, it. Had there been a support group? Yeah, I would have. The one that I found wasn't really up to 

Bethany Pace 34:33
Right. 

Wendy Beck 34:34
par at the time. The second time was a little bit more complicated. There was addiction and that kind of stuff in it. And then the third time was just, you know, possibly a rebound and a big mistake. But but it was lessons learned. And to be honest, I always say, you know, I've learned stuff through all of them that has made me who I am today. And, you know, and I like me. And like you said, you want to get to that place where you like yourself. And it's hard when you're when you're married and you're just struggling to to figure this out. And it's over and over and over again, not working. 

Hillary Livingston 35:14
And I think the one thing that we always say, too, is that, you know, we're not taught how to pick partners. 

Wendy Beck 35:19
Hmm. 

Hillary Livingston 35:20
Really taught 

Rich Bennett 35:20
Ooh. 

Hillary Livingston 35:20
how to know our. You know, I mean, you know, in school we learn how to square dance and we learn. You know. 

Bethany Pace 35:27
How to reduce a fraction or 

Hillary Livingston 35:28
Reduce 

Bethany Pace 35:28
due 

Hillary Livingston 35:28
a fraction by like I would a bit like to know about my 

Bethany Pace 35:31
value. 

Hillary Livingston 35:31
values. Like, what are they and how do they impact if. 

Wendy Beck 35:36
A lot of times women. The men pick them versus them picking their partner. I mean, it's true. You know, and I mean, oh, this person is attracted to me. It makes me feel good. And so here I am. And then you're kind of like. Wake up and you're like, Oh, this isn't this isn't what I envisioned for myself. And it's not because of me, it's not because of them. It's because I allowed this to happen to myself. I allowed myself to be present in this relationship that was not really meant for me. 

Hillary Livingston 36:07
And I think to for women in. 

Rich Bennett 36:10
So I'm having flashbacks of school and square dancing. 

Bethany Pace 36:13
You can. 

Wendy Beck 36:14
Dose zero. Grab your partner here. 

Bethany Pace 36:18
I mean, we had 

Rich Bennett 36:18
Only. 

Bethany Pace 36:19
spent weeks on that. 

Rich Bennett 36:20
Do that any more. 

Hillary Livingston 36:21
No. Well, they did what? I mean. They did what? School. 

Rich Bennett 36:25
Okay. So they still did ten years ago. Okay. 

Hillary Livingston 36:28
Hines. You're kind. I'm a millennial, but. Yeah. No, we, you know. 

Bethany Pace 36:39
When I tried to pick a partner or. 

Hillary Livingston 36:40
Yes. We're not taught how to pick a partner. And I completely. 

Bethany Pace 36:44
I know. It's okay. 

Rich Bennett 36:45
I'm sorry. 

Hillary Livingston 36:46
No, it's 

Rich Bennett 36:46
You 

Hillary Livingston 36:46
a. 

Rich Bennett 36:47
started it with 

Hillary Livingston 36:48
I 

Rich Bennett 36:48
the square. 

Hillary Livingston 36:48
know. I had. I know. I'm sorry. I totally threw us all. 

Wendy Beck 36:51
It'll come back. 

Hillary Livingston 36:53
Well. 

Rich Bennett 36:53
We know you're right. And that's something that you're never taught is how how to pick a partner. And after you pick a partner, how to. 

I guess, respect that partner. 

Wendy Beck 37:05
Or how about if it's not somebody that is ultimately working out to be able to have that conversation that like, hey, this is you know, this has been great, but this is not longevity for me. And we don't know how to do that. We feel like we're going to hurt that person's feelings and then we get deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper into the relationship. 

Bethany Pace 37:25
Because of the sense of failure. You know, and and it's like that's one of the things, again, we really want to disrupt because it's like it's okay. You don't have to try to put around P&G in a square hole, you know? Um. 

Hillary Livingston 37:38
Give a timeline, because I think that's a that's what a lot of women especially run into, is that idea of the biological clock. Like, you know, society tells you that you should be getting married or they suggest to you that you should be getting married at a certain period of time. And you see your friends, you know, on Facebook getting married and getting engaged and you kind of feel like you're you're missing out and. 

Bethany Pace 37:58
Right. Almost like it's a rite of passage that everyone has to have. And I really want my daughters to think, do I want to be in a long term relationship with someone? Do I want a life partner? 

Rich Bennett 38:10
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 38:10
Do I want to have children? You know, I think intentionally 

Wendy Beck 38:15
Yes. 

Bethany Pace 38:15
a. Be intentional. Like I learned that that's one of the one of my values that I have, like through this whole process is my value for intention. And so that is leading, you know, kind of the work that we're doing. But it's also, you know, how I wish I was thinking when I was 22. 

Wendy Beck 38:31
No, I got it. 

Bethany Pace 38:32
That I had had that like. 

Hillary Livingston 38:33
Really distinct. 

Bethany Pace 38:34
In conversation with myself because I never even considered what a life could look like without being married, because that's how much you know. And I'm 51, so this is like the nineties or whatever. But I had never thought that there was any other way for me to, you know, step into womanhood, that this was the most accepted way. Of course, you're going to get married. Of course you're going to have kids, you know, But it's like I never I never again considered what it would look like. 

Hillary Livingston 39:00
I didn't do those. 

Wendy Beck 39:02
Or maybe that you couldn't really do it without having a partner. Yeah. And that's and that's again, that's going back to being that little girl. It needs to learn how. Support herself and we're not fostering that. We're kind of just throwing them out, you know, And they think that maybe, you know, I'll find Mr. Wonderful or Miss Wonderful or however it works, and then we can move on. And that's how I get a. And 

Hillary Livingston 39:27
That's 

Wendy Beck 39:27
that's how 

Hillary Livingston 39:27
how 

Wendy Beck 39:27
I 

Hillary Livingston 39:27
I. 

Wendy Beck 39:28
get by. But. 

Rich Bennett 39:29
And the other thing is to know, I don't know if we're if it's society raising kids like this or what a lot of people think you have to you have to be married in order to be happy. 

Hillary Livingston 39:42
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 39:43
And I always look at Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell. I don't think they have ever gotten married. And look how long they've been together. You know, I think of a who's the of the rocker. Gene Simmons and. 

Bethany Pace 39:56
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 39:57
Shannon Tweed When they finally did get married, it seems like they were arguing more. At least. At least that's the way it was on the show. 

Bethany Pace 40:04
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 40:04
You know, but it's not. Not for sometimes it's. I don't know. 

Bethany Pace 40:10
It's like live life on your own terms. 

Rich Bennett 40:12
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 40:13
You know, and let people live life on their own terms. Because what what group terms are don't fit everyone's, you know, styles, personalities, needs, values. Live life on your own terms. And divorce might be part of that. And that's okay. 

Rich Bennett 40:31
I just think it. People nowadays. They they they want that. They're looking at marriage as that big party. You're like that extravagant wedding and everything. Which leads to a lot of stress as well. 

Bethany Pace 40:45
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 40:45
It's just it's not for everybody. 

Bethany Pace 40:48
Wow. 

Rich Bennett 40:48
And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with not ever getting married, 

Bethany Pace 40:52
Exactly right. 

Rich Bennett 40:53
you know? 

Bethany Pace 40:53
Think about what that's what you want and really understand what that commitment looks like. You know, after all of the goose bumps and the and the butterflies, you know, I might wear off or, you know, I one of the things that I think was a stress or my marriage is that our daughter, our youngest daughter has something called sickle cell disease, which is a genetic illness, very serious. She you know, we were she was diagnosed two days after she was born. And, you know, we've spent the past 13 years in hospitals and monthly blood draws and tests for strokes and lots of things. That was a major stressor, you know, on on our marriage. Of course, she is the perfect child. She is she is who she's meant to be. You know, 

Hillary Livingston 41:42
World. 

Bethany Pace 41:42
she is meant to be in this. Right. Exactly as she is. And it's a privilege to be her mom. You know, and it also created some pressures as well. And I don't know exactly where I was going with this, but just that, you know, a lot of things happened in the course of a relationship that, you know, you don't really know how it's going to, 

Wendy Beck 42:01
Absolutely. 

Bethany Pace 42:01
you know, impact you and impact your your growth as parents or as you said, when you just are growing as a person, you through decades of time, you know, we were changing and and there's not the sense of I'm the same person I was at 23 when I met this, you know, when I met him. But you think that maybe it will be static and so that you can move through life together as the static people. But that's that's not what happens. It's not realistic. You know, I'm different from what I was yesterday. 

Wendy Beck 42:28
Yep. 

Bethany Pace 42:28
You know, simply because I'm sitting here with both of you and having this beautiful experience. 

Rich Bennett 42:33
Didn't think you were coming to see Santa Claus, did 

Bethany Pace 42:35
I 

Rich Bennett 42:35
you? 

Bethany Pace 42:36
did not. 

Hillary Livingston 42:36
It's nice to. 

Bethany Pace 42:38
But it's such a theme because we told you like we had a friend in Townsend. That's Santa. So it's the universe at every turn like this that we know we are doing what we're meant to be doing. 

Wendy Beck 42:48
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 42:49
You know, 

Wendy Beck 42:49
I 

Bethany Pace 42:49
together. 

Wendy Beck 42:49
love. And, you know, I have the I have my own journey with the organization that I run. So I respect this. I see your passion. 

Bethany Pace 42:57
Oh. 

Wendy Beck 42:57
And I, I look back to when, you know, I first started, it was very different. You know, there was a lot of loss and pain involved in it, which is not uncommon in divorce either. Don't get me wrong. It's it's it's it's different, but it is the same. And it's just it's cool because, like, this is a new frontier. And I know I said that before and you guys, I think you you got something here. I really do. I really do. And someone with with the experience that I have, which, you know, I never thought I would be sitting here bragging about my divorces. 

Bethany Pace 43:28
glow up. 

Wendy Beck 43:29
No, but 

Bethany Pace 43:30
Oh. 

Wendy Beck 43:30
I will be honest. I have not regret. I have no regrets. 

Rich Bennett 43:34
So you don't mind being the poster child? 

Wendy Beck 43:36
Now. Why not? Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 43:38
Superpower. 

Wendy Beck 43:39
I have no regrets. 

Hillary Livingston 43:40
It's brave to. 

Wendy Beck 43:42
Well, you know, there's times when I say it. Oh, my God. And that's why I was so, so candid with you about, like, the poster child. Because anybody who knows me will probably laugh because they're like, you know, he or she goes again. And my family is like, You're not getting married ever again. And and I'm not. And I've made that decision for myself. And I do have someone in my life and he has never been married and we have no intention of ever getting married. And I think because of that, we want to be together more and we don't even live in the same house or the same state. And so it's kind of cool. 

Hillary Livingston 44:20
Yeah. I mean. 

Bethany Pace 44:23
Go ahead. 

Wendy Beck 44:23
Okay. 

Bethany Pace 44:23
Go. 

Wendy Beck 44:23
No, no, that was it. That was. I'm just. 

Hillary Livingston 44:25
No. 

Wendy Beck 44:26
Live and learn. Live and learn like. 

Hillary Livingston 44:29
I was going to say, though, I think you're very brave, because I think it takes a lot of courage to look something in the eye and say, this isn't working. And, you know, to walk away like it doesn't and walking away isn't isn't easy. You can stumble and you can cry. And, you know, but as long as you keep going, you you're you're you're wherever it is that you're meant to be or whatever you want to be, it's inevitable. You just have to keep going. 

Bethany Pace 44:56
And it also takes a lot of courage to look something in the face after you walked away and do it again 

Wendy Beck 45:01
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 45:01
and be willing. 

Wendy Beck 45:02
Well, I mean, and they were all very different and for different 

Bethany Pace 45:04
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 45:05
reasons. But I remember, you know, my the first divorce, like my ex, my number one, we were both so young. And I remember I was like, I am not happy. I'm not happy. And he just didn't even it didn't even faze him. Didn't it didn't factor in. To change who he was or help the relationship. And I just remember walking around the house because, I mean, we were young, we're in our toes. And I finally got divorced at 29, where I was walking around the house, packing half of everything while he laid on the couch and played video games. And he honestly did not believe that I was actually doing it as I was doing it in front of him. 

You know what I mean? So that was that was the hardest one for me, because I didn't want to hurt. 

Bethany Pace 45:57
Anybody. 

Wendy Beck 45:58
And I during that path, I was making wrong decisions. You know. 

Hillary Livingston 46:02
Because I 

Wendy Beck 46:02
I was 

Hillary Livingston 46:02
was. 

Wendy Beck 46:03
trying to feel alive again. And, you know, there were a lot number two, I my you know, my first daughter was from my first husband and my second daughter's from my second husband. And that ended because of, you know, the death of my older daughter, the alcoholism that was, you know, seeped into the relationship. And I was just at that point, my youngest daughter was my priority because it was not a safe environment anymore. And I was going insane. So the first time I, like, hemmed and hawed and cried and, you know, made mistakes and all of these things. The second time I was like, you know, I had my armor on. I was a warrior. And I you know, I got a got it to where I could have, like, sanity again and then again, here I go again. And that was very I feel like I was I felt like I was a little bit stalked. And then anybody who knows this conversation can disagree or or not with me. And I got into it and I didn't know how to get out. So it took me a long time to kind of like say, you know what, I'm a big girl. This is not what I want. This was not for the right reasons. And that was when I said okay and I stood up straight and I said, okay, this is what I'm doing. And then through all of that, you know, I like who I am. And I mean, I might have some enemies, you know, or people that don't like me, but because of it. But I don't really care. 

Hillary Livingston 47:26
Yeah. And I think too, like a big part. 

Bethany Pace 47:29
Part of that is that. 

Hillary Livingston 47:30
That we like are very good at forgetting to listen to our own voice. And we're very good at ignoring like what our bodies are telling us. Because I can think of so many examples where, you know, my body was saying, this is not right for you. This is this is not an environment for that you're going to thrive in if you stay like this. 

Wendy Beck 47:51
Yes. 

Hillary Livingston 47:52
And I think that we're taught, you know, to make other people happy and to to sacrifice yourself in the spirit of saving, you know, a marriage or a relationship or whatever. And it doesn't I mean, it never works out. Somebody 

Wendy Beck 48:06
Does 

Hillary Livingston 48:07
else. 

Wendy Beck 48:07
it. And, you know. Not to interrupt, but just because of my journey. I don't know if you're familiar, and you probably are with it. Love. Pray. What is that? Is that right? 

Hillary Livingston 48:17
Yes. Yes. 

Wendy Beck 48:17
Right. And so that was like my like, that was my, like, golden ticket. When I saw that movie and read that book, I was like, okay. And I just remember in in the whole scenario, it's just. Have you ever seen that movie or she. 

Rich Bennett 48:32
Love pray. 

Wendy Beck 48:33
Yeah, she she gets a divorce and it just looked at that. There's like. Stages. But anyway. Now all. 

Hillary Livingston 48:40
Roberts. 

Wendy Beck 48:40
Well, Elizabeth Elizabeth Gilbert wrote the book and then it was a movie that Julia Roberts starred in. And it's, gosh, 20 years old now. Right. But I remember I remember the part in the movie. And she says, you know, she wants a divorce. He was not very happy about it. And she said, you know, I was a participant in every single thing that I am involved in. I picked out this house. I went through the wedding. You know, she did everything. She wasn't being forced in any way to do it. And it just wasn't right. And she knew it in her gut. And to me and I think maybe for a lot of women, that movie like, changed a lot for us. And now what you're doing is an extension of that because she took a solo journey. And now you're bringing in community. 

Bethany Pace 49:31
Yeah. Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 49:32
I'm touched that you. 

Bethany Pace 49:33
Exactly. Compare it. 

Wendy Beck 49:35
Well, I mean, just going through it, I can see the difference and 

Bethany Pace 49:38
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 49:39
I can see where this community would have helped me back then. 

Bethany Pace 49:43
Mm hmm. And I think that's one of the things that, again, along the nine months that we've been doing this, which is hard to believe, it's only been nine months because of how we feel about the people in our group. And and. 

Hillary Livingston 49:55
Imagine not knowing them. 

Bethany Pace 49:56
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 49:56
Many of them we didn't know this time last. 

Bethany Pace 49:58
Exactly. 

Hillary Livingston 49:59
And so close and. 

Bethany Pace 50:00
We get messages like DMS from people saying, I wish this was. I wish there were something like this. When I was going through this 15 years ago, ten years ago, or, you know, two years ago or I'm so glad you're here. You know, keep going, keep, you know, and we had 500 followers or we had, you know, 2000 and we were like, this is amazing, you know, And people would send us things and we would we'd be like, okay, okay, we're going to do this. You know, we're going to keep going. And but it's because people have seen people have said that something like this means so much. Thank you 

Rich Bennett 50:37
Those people that have said that, like Wendy and others, you should get them to come and speak at 

Bethany Pace 50:44
So. 

Rich Bennett 50:44
some of these things. Because they've been through a. 

Bethany Pace 50:46
Uh huh. 

Rich Bennett 50:47
Yeah, it's not necessary. It doesn't 

Bethany Pace 50:50
Necessarily 

Rich Bennett 50:50
really have 

Bethany Pace 50:50
I 

Rich Bennett 50:50
to. 

Bethany Pace 50:50
be 

Rich Bennett 50:51
For 

Bethany Pace 50:51
for 

Rich Bennett 50:51
somebody 

Bethany Pace 50:51
somebody 

Rich Bennett 50:51
that's 

Bethany Pace 50:51
that's 

Rich Bennett 50:52
going 

Bethany Pace 50:52
going 

Rich Bennett 50:52
through 

Bethany Pace 50:52
through 

Rich Bennett 50:52
it 

Bethany Pace 50:52
it 

Rich Bennett 50:52
now. 

Bethany Pace 50:52
now, right? Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 50:53
You speak to people that have the poster child come and speak. 

Wendy Beck 50:58
No. 

Rich Bennett 50:59
You're good at it. You've gotten a lot better at speaking now. 

Bethany Pace 51:02
Yeah. And I think in really telling our stories is is important, you 

Rich Bennett 51:07
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 51:07
know, because again, there's all these preconceived notions about what divorce is and who divorce, you know, who gets divorced and and whose fault it is in divorce. You know, we actually have a member of our support group who's he's working on writing something, a narrative, a first person narrative about his experience and perspective that we're going to be sharing with our community. But to your point, you know, like speaking those things, 

Rich Bennett 51:32
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 51:32
you know, all of that 

Wendy Beck 51:33
Honestly. 

Bethany Pace 51:33
is. 

Wendy Beck 51:35
That I have revealed right now, I don't talk about like, honestly, like I'm sitting here thinking, Oh, God, who's going to listen to this? You know what I mean? Only because that has been my private. Private journey. And, you know, I have some, you know, failure feelings that come within it. But I also have some triumphs. And, you know, being able to support myself and my daughter and be a homeowner and have an organization and doing all of this stuff has been a blessing that I don't know what I would have been able to do if I had been in, you know, a marriage that was not healthy for me. 

Bethany Pace 52:11
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 52:12
We talk about a lot when we talk about addiction and mental health, we always talk about, you know, breaking the stigma. And I think divorce is the same way. A lot of a lot of people think it's a negative thing and it's not always 

Bethany Pace 52:24
No. 

Rich Bennett 52:24
and there's nothing wrong with talking. You have to talk about it. It's going to make it's going to make it just as of addiction and mental. Talk about it. It makes. 

Bethany Pace 52:35
Better You 

Rich Bennett 52:35
You may 

Bethany Pace 52:35
maybe 

Rich Bennett 52:36
be 

Bethany Pace 52:36
just 

Rich Bennett 52:36
just when 

Bethany Pace 52:36
when you 

Rich Bennett 52:36
you 

Bethany Pace 52:37
got. 

Rich Bennett 52:37
guys first started, you had that one person show up, but you changed their lives. And that's just if you can touch one person and help them. You've done it several times. I mean, we have people from around the world contact because. You know what? 

Bethany Pace 52:55
Each day's. 

Rich Bennett 52:56
And it's going to happen with you guys, too. I know it is. You're making a difference. And that's that's the big thing. Now, what we need to do is figure out a way to make you guys money. How are we going to do that? 

Hillary Livingston 53:08
And. 

Wendy Beck 53:09
I have some ideas. 

Rich Bennett 53:10
So do I. 

Wendy Beck 53:11
But. 

We'll talk offline. 

Bethany Pace 53:17
Good. 

Wendy Beck 53:17
But let me ask another question, because. Yes, one thing that's that's you know the most. Of course, your your your own mental health. And your journey is important. But then you have the children and you're very, very mature in the way that you talk to your daughters from what you've said. Not everybody knows that. Not everybody like, goes into divorce, being real with their kids and having that conversation about. I want you to know the best me, because instead, you know, they're seeing like the packing up and the, you know, the drop offs at the at the mall because we can't get along in in private. And I remember I remember a co-worker this is years ago. Her parents went through a horrible, horrendous divorce and they would have the drop off and pick up somewhere on 95 because they could not they could not be together at all in the situation. I've known family members, you know, who have had, you know, the same kind of situation again, where it was just so tumultuous. Now, how do you how do you how do you extend that kind of wisdom to the people that come into your group? Because you know that they're going through it. 

Hillary Livingston 54:34
We've talked about this a couple of times. The first thing that comes into my mind is when we talk about co-parenting is we try to always remind ourselves like, okay, you're not playing the short game, you're playing the long game. Like, sure, it might feel good to to, you know, cast out your ex-spouse in the moment, but is that really like what you want your kids to see? Or is that really like, do you think that like expelling all of that emotional energy? Is that is that going to benefit me? How is that going to serve? 

Bethany Pace 55:03
Right in the future. And it's good. You need to expel that energy, but maybe expel that energy with your therapist, with us, 

Rich Bennett 55:10
Therapist 

Bethany Pace 55:10
you know. 

Rich Bennett 55:10
or look in the mirror. 

Wendy Beck 55:11
Kickboxing class. 

Bethany Pace 55:12
Exactly. Do a voice recording, 

Rich Bennett 55:14
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 55:15
whatever it is. You know, there's. 

Rich Bennett 55:16
You never know who's listening. 

Hillary Livingston 55:18
True. 

Bethany Pace 55:19
Mm hmm. Mm. 

Rich Bennett 55:21
Mm. 

Bethany Pace 55:21
You know all of that anyhow. But yeah, we do talk about that and we talk about, you know, what? 

A former student of mine, her parents, very wise people, they said to me, and this was probably out 15 years ago, they said because they said, Oh, you know, I love your daughter. She's such a nice young lady. And what parenting type do you have for me? Like, I will have a conversation with anybody, Hillary. 

Hillary Livingston 55:45
Yeah, we call her Norm because from Cheers. 

Rich Bennett 55:47
I figured that's. 

Bethany Pace 55:50
And she's like. Marg. She's like, Here's Norm. 

Hillary Livingston 55:53
He's out here. She's. 

Bethany Pace 55:54
I know. 

Rich Bennett 55:56
See. 

Bethany Pace 55:57
Right. But this, this, this these parents said, you know what, we we decided early on, we're not raising children. We're raising future adults. And so that shift in thinking. When they told me that, I was like, Whoa, you know, that is huge. And so everything that I did from that point and I mean not everything, but you know what? I was being intentional because again, that's a value, you know, it was like, okay, I can talk about this about when you lose your stylist to your iPad and and you don't know where it is, but you have to replace it with your own money because you know what? When you're 30 and you lose your laptop for work, you're going to have to pay for it yourself. You know, so that that little interaction when they're ten, you know, because they have a little savings and we go to the dollar tree and buy three, you know, a $3 stylist or whatever that is teaching them to be the future adult, you know, And and that's how that I apply that frame so much, even when we were still married, is that like, okay, they're children, but we are raising future adults. And that to me. Is something that applies in co-parenting, too. Because I want my children to see, okay, I can resolve conflict, you know, in a way that doesn't involve. Profanity or doesn't involve violence or, you know, I can be compassionate, you know, even if I don't really care for this person, you know, what does that look like? I can also set boundaries to protect my peace. And this is what that looks like, you know? And so everything at least for me, that's 

Wendy Beck 57:36
Well, 

Bethany Pace 57:37
that's 

Wendy Beck 57:37
it's 

Bethany Pace 57:37
some. 

Wendy Beck 57:37
modeling. 

Bethany Pace 57:38
Say, 

Wendy Beck 57:38
You know, your. 

Bethany Pace 57:38
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 57:39
You're creating this, you know. Learn from 

Bethany Pace 57:42
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 57:42
what 

Bethany Pace 57:42
And 

Wendy Beck 57:42
you're. 

Bethany Pace 57:42
I want them to have these tools whenever they're 25, 35, 60. You know, I want them to be able to say, Yeah, my mom, I knew the truest version of her. I need the happiest version of her. And she also left me with some tools that I could use later. 

Wendy Beck 57:57
Yes. We could all hope for that. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 57:59
And when they get married, if they get married, it's just going to help them with their marriage. 

Bethany Pace 58:03
Right? Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 58:05
Something very important. Tell everybody the website. 

Bethany Pace 58:09
Yes. Well, it's pretty simple. W w w dot sincerely divorced dot com. Yep. 

Rich Bennett 58:15
Do you have the calendar near? It lists upcoming events. 

Bethany Pace 58:17
And everything. 

Rich Bennett 58:18
Using both virtual and in-person. 

Hillary Livingston 58:19
We do. And we also have a blog on there. So we have some different, you know, reflections and articles that we both have written. And we also have a subscription. So if it's free, you can subscribe via email and we send weekly, we call them hope notes. That kind of. 

Rich Bennett 58:36
Ooh. 

Hillary Livingston 58:36
Plays into our. 

Bethany Pace 58:38
Literary. 

Hillary Livingston 58:39
Yes. 

Bethany Pace 58:40
Yes. 

Hillary Livingston 58:41
So it it's just it's it's, it's brief, but it's just like, you know, a song that we liked or 

Rich Bennett 58:46
Right. 

Hillary Livingston 58:47
that might resonate or, you know, a shout out to like a self-care product that we find helpful is it's very. 

Bethany Pace 58:53
Call it a bright spot in 

Hillary Livingston 58:54
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 58:54
your. Because, you know, you need you need that. We all need that. We're all living a human experience. And that's hard. 

Rich Bennett 59:02
See something like that's not just for people that are going through a divorce. 

Bethany Pace 59:05
No. 

Rich Bennett 59:06
Everybody. 

Hillary Livingston 59:07
Be. 

Rich Bennett 59:08
So everybody subscribed. 

Hillary Livingston 59:10
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 59:11
When's the book coming out? When you both are going to start writing the book together. 

Hillary Livingston 59:14
Or it's in the it's in the long. 

Bethany Pace 59:17
Right. Well, we have an e-book. We have. 

Hillary Livingston 59:19
You have an e-book? Yes. 

Bethany Pace 59:19
Yeah, we have an e-book called What Matters to Children of Divorce at any Age or Stage. And if you go to that's also on our website, but it's like $5. Cost less than a cup of coffee, depending on where you're buying it nowadays. And 

Hillary Livingston 59:35
And 

Bethany Pace 59:35
a. 

Hillary Livingston 59:35
it's just. 

Bethany Pace 59:36
Notable, you know, e-book. But we talk a lot about, you know, kids and how to, you know, phrases to use 

Rich Bennett 59:43
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 59:43
to like talk to your kids. Like it's really like hands on like we as much as we like conceptual ideas, we really believe in like providing practical. Tips. Because that's what we need. That's, you know, we're all on the ground, you know, right now in the moment. And so so the book is really good at doing that. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:02
I wanted to do something. So I want you guys to come back on in a few months. But if you don't mind, bring me to two people that have that are part of the. 

Hillary Livingston 1:00:15
Okay. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:15
Have a roundtable discussion, 

Rich Bennett 1:00:17
Yeah, 

Wendy Beck 1:00:17
course. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:17
actually. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Up to four of the four people. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:24
Cool. 

Bethany Pace 1:00:25
Oh, my gosh. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:25
I have a question. I have a part in question, so I don't want 

Rich Bennett 1:00:29
So 

Wendy Beck 1:00:29
to. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:29
you're going to wrap this up. I'll let you wrap. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:31
No, no, no, no. I want to wrap it up, but I have a 

Rich Bennett 1:00:33
Set 

Wendy Beck 1:00:33
question. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:33
a parting question. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:34
Well, you always say, Do 

Rich Bennett 1:00:35
Not 

Wendy Beck 1:00:35
I? 

Rich Bennett 1:00:35
like. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:36
Do you have anything else that you want to ask them? Right. Isn't that how. 

Hillary Livingston 1:00:41
Ahead of you getting 

Bethany Pace 1:00:42
Getting 

Hillary Livingston 1:00:42
ahead 

Bethany Pace 1:00:42
ahead 

Hillary Livingston 1:00:42
of 

Bethany Pace 1:00:42
of the. 

Hillary Livingston 1:00:43
the. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:45
Go ahead, Wendy. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:45
How do your exes feel about this? 

Bethany Pace 1:00:49
Oh. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:50
Questions. 

Bethany Pace 1:00:51
Such a good question. You. 

Hillary Livingston 1:00:52
I'll start because it's very simple. We've never talked about it. 

Bethany Pace 1:00:57
I. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:57
He doesn't know. 

Hillary Livingston 1:00:58
I. I imagine he has to now. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:02
She's still local. 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:03
Yeah, I. You know, I don't know. 

Bethany Pace 1:01:05
It's wild to me. I'm like, You've never talked about it. I don't know how he could not know. 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:11
Yeah, he has to now. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:13
So, especially since she's got the banner on the front of her house. Sincerely, divorce. 

Bethany Pace 1:01:17
Like our faces are like, in the logo. 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:20
We actually were on Reddit. Somebody was like stalking a. 

Bethany Pace 1:01:25
Dance, Mom. 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:26
Dance mom. And they were like, She's getting a divorce. And this is how we know. And they circled her followers and it was our accounts and. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:33
Oh, wow. 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:34
Our face is on it. We were like, Oh. I felt really. 

Bethany Pace 1:01:39
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:39
Well, if he 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:40
All. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:40
follows the podcast, he's going to know. 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:01:43
Right, Exactly. But, you know. 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:45
I would I would talk about it. I wouldn't. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:47
Just 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:47
You know, 

Wendy Beck 1:01:48
curious. 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:48
I. 

Bethany Pace 1:01:48
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 1:01:49
Like some a secret I'm keeping. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:50
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:51
Did. 

Bethany Pace 1:01:51
While I'm trying, I'm trying to be trying to model good behavior. I will say this, that sometimes people want to dim your light. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:02
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:02:02
And 

Wendy Beck 1:02:03
They do. 

Bethany Pace 1:02:03
they. 

They can't truly and won't ever truly acknowledge it because it's too hard for them to do that. And I and I believe that that could be what's happening here. But Hillary's a bright light, and part of this is continuing how I felt about her in the very beginning as like continuing to see that light shine. And, you know, her ex-partner was not on that team. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:33
And it you know, I'm not saying that to be like, oh, how or you know, I'm just saying, you know, in. Because I'm going to be honest. I get it. Like when you go through something that's so hard for you and you can take that pain and you can put purpose to. 

Hillary Livingston 1:02:48
Do it. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:50
People don't always want to support you. And it says more about them than it does about you. 

Bethany Pace 1:02:56
Yeah, 

Wendy Beck 1:02:56
But 

Bethany Pace 1:02:56
but. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:56
that's why I was just curious, you know, how how that falls. 

Bethany Pace 1:02:59
Well, my it's so it's completely different. And actually, today is our two year divorce anniversary. And you know what? He sent me a text this morning that said happy divorce anniversary. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:11
I got him it as the first time I've ever heard of 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:13
Be 

Rich Bennett 1:03:13
that. 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:13
a Hallmark card, right? 

Wendy Beck 1:03:15
Why not? Website. 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:17
We actually we, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:18
In 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:18
we do 

Rich Bennett 1:03:18
the 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:18
have cards 

Rich Bennett 1:03:19
hope 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:19
which. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:19
that the. 

Bethany Pace 1:03:20
Yeah, we do make cars. Yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:21
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:03:21
we have carts. Yeah, we have green cards. 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:23
Cards. 

Bethany Pace 1:03:24
Because 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:24
They. 

Bethany Pace 1:03:24
you have to acknowledge and celebrate. I mean, we love writing notes, right? So 

Wendy Beck 1:03:27
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:03:27
that was one of the 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:28
Right 

Bethany Pace 1:03:28
first 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:28
in our wheelhouse. 

Bethany Pace 1:03:28
things. So we have. Yeah, so that's on our website too. But yeah, but no, he, he and I talk very often. Married now. And but, you know, and he's asked me. He's an attorney. He's a divorce attorney. Can't make this up. Right? 

Wendy Beck 1:03:46
Right. 

Bethany Pace 1:03:47
Anyway, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:47
Yeah. You the book. 

Bethany Pace 1:03:49
well, what is he talking about? The podcast like he's. He's the number one special. Like the first guest, one of the first guests, because the banter is really interesting. Some of. 

Hillary Livingston 1:03:59
Yesterday. 

Bethany Pace 1:03:59
Yeah. Yeah, we were. All three of us were together yesterday working on some things anyway. But, but yeah, but he asked me like probably a couple of months ago when he really started to really. This is real. You know, because. Because he was like, of course, you're running a support group, you know, and whatever. But we were at Hartford's heart. I was like, look, like this is really real. And he's like, okay, it is really real. And. I wrote something for a website about my wedding anniversary and how I felt about it in the company. Her view from home yet. And so that was published. And so I felt like then I had to have like a really specific conversation with him about it because, you know, it was like our wedding photo was, was used, you know, in the article. But, you know, I said, you 

Hillary Livingston 1:04:43
His 

Bethany Pace 1:04:43
know. 

Hillary Livingston 1:04:43
face was blurred out. 

Bethany Pace 1:04:44
I did blur out his face. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:45
Well, And, you know, I think that that's really important because, you know, for me, there will be a song that will come on and that was my wedding song. And in the the only marriage that I actually had. And it will always bring back that tender moment. I shared with this person that will never get taken away 

Bethany Pace 1:05:07
Right. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:09
no matter what happens. 

Hillary Livingston 1:05:11
Those two things can exist at the same time. 

Bethany Pace 1:05:13
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 1:05:13
Have that memory of that tender moment. But you can also realize that you not being together was ultimately the best decision. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:19
Yeah. And that 

Hillary Livingston 1:05:20
And 

Wendy Beck 1:05:20
moment 

Hillary Livingston 1:05:20
that's really 

Wendy Beck 1:05:20
is over. 

Hillary Livingston 1:05:20
hard. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:21
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:05:21
And the title of that, that piece is called It's Still My Anniversary. To exactly to your point, you 

Wendy Beck 1:05:27
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 1:05:27
know. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:27
that's still our wedding song. 

Bethany Pace 1:05:28
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:28
And it always will be. 

Bethany Pace 1:05:30
Hmm. It doesn't change any of that. So. But. Yeah, but he was like, So how much are you going to talk about 

Wendy Beck 1:05:35
Oh. 

Bethany Pace 1:05:36
our, you know, our daughter, you know? And I said it, like, really, a lot of things have fallen away, just like the tension has fallen away. All the things that I was keeping score of, you know, when when he didn't do this, I did said this and a lot of that has fallen away. And that's I think that's really a testament to healing and to community and to filling my mind with lots of other positive. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:58
Positive. 

Bethany Pace 1:05:59
Helping other people, which I think is clearly a part of what you both care about. But yeah, I told him I'm not going to defame you because, number one, I know you would know how to sue me, you know? We don't we don't have time for that at all, you know, 

Wendy Beck 1:06:13
Right. 

Bethany Pace 1:06:13
And, you know, he's happy. He's happier with his wife now. And I love that for him because. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:18
Which probably makes the kids happier to write. 

Bethany Pace 1:06:20
Yeah. I mean, the kids are just happier to know. Right, Exactly. It's a trickle down, you know, And and it's it's it's good. It's good. And we we have not always been in this place. I mean, there were some very tense emails sent like we months ago and. 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:34
Yes. And. And the license plate, the cars, we. That's a whole other podcast episode. 

Bethany Pace 1:06:40
How we 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:40
But 

Bethany Pace 1:06:40
re 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:40
I went. 

Bethany Pace 1:06:41
how, how I repossessed the car and. 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:43
And I went with 

Bethany Pace 1:06:44
Car. 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:44
our. 

Incognito. 

Wendy Beck 1:06:47
This could that episode can be like. You know, early divorce. 

Bethany Pace 1:06:54
Your. 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:54
Your 

Rich Bennett 1:06:54
Divorce. 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:54
ride or die best. 

Wendy Beck 1:06:55
Something 

Rich Bennett 1:06:55
That 

Wendy Beck 1:06:55
I 

Rich Bennett 1:06:55
roundtable, 

Wendy Beck 1:06:55
don't even. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:56
that roundtable package is going to be. 

Wendy Beck 1:06:59
The things that we did in early divorce, that we look back and say, Wow. 

Bethany Pace 1:07:03
Divorce confessions. 

Wendy Beck 1:07:04
Yeah. There you go. Yes. Oh, yes. We might need to use the muffle so our voices are changed. 

Hillary Livingston 1:07:12
Riots. Riots. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:13
You want to make sure. 

Wendy Beck 1:07:18
I love it. That's so fun, because it's so fun to watch you guys even brainstorm together about this because they're so like, into it. I love it. 

Bethany Pace 1:07:25
Thank you. Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:28
Ladies have anything to add? 

Bethany Pace 1:07:32
We just appreciate the opportunity really, to like 

Rich Bennett 1:07:35
Pleasure. 

Bethany Pace 1:07:35
to share the story and to share how important community is and to just I think the last thing I would like to say and I want to cry like I'm like something in Oscars to anyone who's listening is that, you know, you're not alone. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:50
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:07:50
You're not alone. And. And. 

Hillary Livingston 1:07:52
Everything you're going through is valid. Every feeling that you have, every experience that you have, it is all valid. 

Bethany Pace 1:08:00
And our DMS are always open. We don't charge anyone to message us. Sometimes you just need to know that someone is on the other side. So, you know, we that you're not alone. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:13
Tell everybody again how to get in touch with you guys. 

Bethany Pace 1:08:16
Instagram ad sincerely divorced and Tik Tok ad since Joey divorced the Facebook group. 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:22
We have a private. We have. So we have two. Two. We have a page on Facebook 

Rich Bennett 1:08:26
Right. 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:26
that's public. But then we also have a private Facebook group, if you want to. 

Bethany Pace 1:08:31
Join. 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:32
It's primarily local Harford County, Baltimore County. 

Bethany Pace 1:08:34
Can you? 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:35
Folks that are in there, but you can also join that. But that does require you to just. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:40
On Facebook. 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:40
Yeah. Yes. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:42
We're not like about. 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:44
The. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:44
Because on your Facebook page, it's right there says visit group. I left the. 

Bethany Pace 1:08:51
Yeah, we can help you. We've learned a lot. We've learned a lot about technology. And I mean, we want to learn about podcasting from you. I mean, you all are great. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:00
Oh, I have no problem teaching people about that. 

I actually do it on the side. It's a lot of people think it's easy. 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:10
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 1:09:11
I'll be 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:11
never would. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:12
oh, and I just put a post up just to let people 

Bethany Pace 1:09:15
Or 

Rich Bennett 1:09:15
know. 

Bethany Pace 1:09:15
no. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:16
Right up front. It's easier to be successful. A new business. 

Bethany Pace 1:09:22
This is. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:23
It's like a little over. 

Bethany Pace 1:09:24
6%. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:25
Of. 

Bethany Pace 1:09:28
Six. Wow. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:29
Yeah. Oh, the numbers are crazy. 

Wendy Beck 1:09:31
Once you get. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:32
Yeah. Why don't you get a day? Yeah, you're. 

Wendy Beck 1:09:37
You can do anything. 

Bethany Pace 1:09:38
All. 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:43
The same inflection. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:46
In a way, 

Bethany Pace 1:09:46
I 

Rich Bennett 1:09:46
I feel 

Bethany Pace 1:09:46
feel like. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:46
like I'm. Teamed up on. 

Wendy Beck 1:09:49
No, I'm. I'm on your team. 

Bethany Pace 1:09:52
We're all on the same team. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:55
There it is. There. I told you. 

Bethany Pace 1:10:00
Lady. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:00
Thank you so much. 

Hillary Livingston 1:10:01
Thank 

Wendy Beck 1:10:02
It 

Hillary Livingston 1:10:02
you. 

Wendy Beck 1:10:02
was a pleasure. 

Bethany Pace 1:10:03
They're so great.