Soaring Beyond Limits: Pat Wetzel’s Journey of Resilience

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. I'm your host, Rick Bennett. And today we're joined by a truly inspiring guest, Pat Wetzel. Pat is not only the author of the compelling book Bump in the Road 15 Stories of Courage, Hope and Resilience, but also a spirited adventurer and a cancer survivor who has turned her formidable challenges into avenues for growth and inspiration. Her book weaves together diverse tales of overcoming life's hurdles, showcasing the resilience of the human spirit. Oh, and did I also mention that she's a podcaster? No, I did it, Yes. She's a podcaster of an awesome podcast, which you're going to learn more about to say, Hey, do it, Pat. 

Pat Wetzel 0:47
I'm doing great. Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 0:49
So I want to get right into the book Bump in the Road. 

Pat Wetzel 0:52
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 0:52
You share a variety of deeply personal stories from individual individuals facing significant challenges. What inspired you to collect these stories and how did you choose the contributors? 

Pat Wetzel 1:06
Well, choosing the contributors was terribly difficult. The initial book was. 

Rich Bennett 1:10
That. 

Pat Wetzel 1:11
Was twice the size of the N book. So I have another book almost ready to roll there. And I wrote that all back around. I started writing it, I guess, in 2022. So it was about a year, year and a half into the podcast. And I realized I had all these extraordinary stories and I had to share them because I'm the host of the podcast, I have a 30,000 foot view, and that allows me to see all these commonalities between the stories. And by writing a book, I was able to pull some of these threads together and take a look at how. 

How things like courage, perseverance, faith, all influence your course in life because nobody gives us a roadmap for this. For this wild lifetime we all live. And quite honestly, there's so much wisdom out there in story and stories important because in story we relate emotionally, and that's experiential. And when you have something that's experiential, that can change you. 

Rich Bennett 2:17
Yeah. Is this the first book you've ever written? 

Pat Wetzel 2:22
Yeah, this is my first book. The next one, which is in process, is Bump in the Road Strong Women 

Rich Bennett 2:28
So part two. 

Pat Wetzel 2:29
and then three. The road business. 

Rich Bennett 2:32
Well, I guess you got a lot of these people from your podcast. 

Pat Wetzel 2:37
Oh, yeah. Everybody in the book is from the podcast. 

Rich Bennett 2:40
Okay. I mean, that's the one great thing, because a lot of people I talk to, they do have a podcast. They say, I would love to write a book, but what am I going to write about? Well, we have guests on your podcast. There's your book right there. 

Pat Wetzel 2:54
I have so much material I could write 20. I just need the time. And so many 

Rich Bennett 2:59
It's. 

Pat Wetzel 2:59
great stories. 

Rich Bennett 3:02
I think it would also be easier for you to put it in audio form. 

Pat Wetzel 3:08
I thought about that. I won't go into the technicalities. There are some things to consider. 

Rich Bennett 3:12
Oh, yeah. Well, you got the podcast. That's the audio book of it. So. And actually, when did you when did you actually start the podcast? Because they both go hand in hand. 

Pat Wetzel 3:23
The podcast was started, oh, I think 2021. And the book was published just this past September. 

Rich Bennett 3:34
Okay. How many episodes in are you already for your podcast? 

Pat Wetzel 3:38
Up around 200 or so, I think. 

Rich Bennett 3:41
Yeah. You got a lot of books to write. 

Pat Wetzel 3:43
I do. Well, this. 

You know, I can I can tell a million stories from my podcast. One of my favorite ones that I always tell is from Eric Weiner, where he's just a remarkable person. He has a not for profit, No Barriers USA talk. And if you're looking for a cause to support, that is it. He focuses on the disability and veteran community is and it creates outward. 

Rich Bennett 4:08
Oh. 

Pat Wetzel 4:09
Life experiences. But Eric's story is amazing. He went blind at 16, so you can imagine the rage and the isolation and just emotionally, everything you would go through with that losing your sight. 

Rich Bennett 4:23
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 4:24
He tells a story. This is his story. He divides. First, let me set the stage. Forgive me. Eric went on to climb Mount Everest. The seven. 

Rich Bennett 4:34
Why is blood? Blood? 

Pat Wetzel 4:36
The seven summits, and he spent eight years training to kayak the Colorado River Rapids. 

Rich Bennett 4:44
Wow. 

Pat Wetzel 4:46
He's he's remarkable. But he tells a story that I love. He divides the world into three groups. Okay. And we're all we've all been in each of these groups and the groups are fluid. We move between them. The first group are quitters. They're self evident. About 20% of the people, the vast majority of people are campers. They want to maintain the status quo and they do not want to step out of their comfort zone. Now, in all fairness to them, they may be so beaten up by life, they don't want to put their head outside the foxhole anymore. Very few people are climbers. What fascinates me is what does it take to go from being a camper to a climber? Because when you're a climber, you're actually realizing your best life. And that's everybody should be able to enjoy. 

Rich Bennett 5:34
What's his name again? 

Pat Wetzel 5:36
Eric Weiner, mayor. 

Rich Bennett 5:39
Are you so blind? Blinded 16 and he started this nonprofit to help veterans. 

Pat Wetzel 5:46
Well helped the disability community and veterans. And he did this after he. 

Rich Bennett 5:50
Okay. 

Pat Wetzel 5:50
Grist in that time frame, which. Oh, I don't remember what year that was, but I guess it was in the seventies sometime. Maybe even the. 

Rich Bennett 5:59
Oh, wow. 

Pat Wetzel 5:59
Maybe the eighties. He's about 50 now. So whenever. 

Rich Bennett 6:04
Yeah, probably the eighties. 

Pat Wetzel 6:06
Yeah. Yeah. Would have been eighties because he was on Oprah on the cover of Time magazine and things like that. 

Rich Bennett 6:14
Where did you find him at? As a gay. 

Pat Wetzel 6:17
I don't know. I find I go down these rabbit holes and I have a wide range of interests. And whenever I find anything interesting or somebody I think might be interesting, I just reach out. And as a result, I have grown this global network of absolutely fascinating people. And now I'm trying to think about what can I how can I combine some of these different people to have some different podcasts? That'll be interesting because. 

Rich Bennett 6:41
There. 

Pat Wetzel 6:42
They're just amazing. 

Rich Bennett 6:44
People are amazing. People are amazing. The people you meet. This is something I've always said even. Yeah, because you got your chamber chambers of commerce, which you use for networking. You and I are doing the biggest networking platform in the world right now, I believe, and that is podcasting. If you're podcasting, you're having people on as guest. You're I mean, what better networking is there? You're meeting people around the world and you said it before we even started recording. And I'm the same way you meet. You make a ton of friends. 

Pat Wetzel 7:22
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 7:23
A ton of friends. 

Pat Wetzel 7:24
And I tell all my guests I want to stay in touch. And we do, because 

Rich Bennett 7:27
Yes. 

Pat Wetzel 7:28
all these different things bubble up. I had one person who had a near-death experience reach out to me recently, and she said, Can I come on the podcast again? And I'm like, Absolutely. And she has a such a remarkable story. But it is particularly remarkable because she comes from a very technical, high tech background, so very linear kind of thinking. She had this near-death experience and it just blew her away and totally changed her paradigm of life. 

Rich Bennett 7:57
You just gave me an idea. Because seriously, because I have a funny feeling, you and I, we've had somehow or another, we've had to have this. The at least one guest that we both know on on our shows, maybe even more than that. But it'd be interesting to have 

a guest that you had on and I had on a do a three way conversation. 

Pat Wetzel 8:25
Oh, I'm game. I think that'd be very interesting. 

Rich Bennett 8:27
Yeah. Because you as a host, there's. Stuff that people will say to you that they may not have said to me and vice versa, which could add more to your next third or third book. Your third. What actually made you decide you wanted to start a podcast, though? 

Pat Wetzel 8:48
Well, I had a film project that was travel based, and when travel shut down with COVID. 

I lost almost a quarter of $1,000,000. All my sponsors backed out and I was just left hanging. And as a solo entrepreneurial type of person, I didn't get any aid or benefit from the government. So while everybody's spending all this money, I'm like, What about the creatives out there? But anyway, after about two weeks of eating potato chips in bed, out of total depression and despair, I decided to start a podcast. And a podcast had been in the back of my mind for the travel series. But I had 

Rich Bennett 9:26
Okay. 

Pat Wetzel 9:26
envisioned kind of an exotic NPR style podcast with great sound and that kind of thing as we traveled the world. Well, that wasn't going to happen. But then I got to thinking about what will the topic be for the podcast? And it just was staring me right in the face. Bump in the road. How do you manage a bump in the road? And I needed guidance. Really. I mean, how did other people manage these things? And that's how it started. I knew nothing about podcasting, nothing about sound. I didn't know if I could get anybody on the show. You know, the whole litany of things. And all of a sudden, about a year and a half in, it's starting to flow. And I realized I have a book. 

Rich Bennett 10:08
And then turn it into a book. Now, were you those sponsors that you lost from the film project, were you able to bring any of them on as sponsors of your podcast 

Pat Wetzel 10:18
Now I just kind of moved on. The film project was pretty big and expensive and the initial. The premise behind the film project was to give seven people who have been impacted by cancer an exotic, incredible bucket list trip and 

Rich Bennett 10:36
and. 

Pat Wetzel 10:37
tell their stories against the backdrop of iconic locations. So the first location was Tanzania, where we have 

Kilimanjaro in the metaphor of a mountain. We have Safari in the metaphor of survival. We have Zanzibar and the spice of life. So that would give us three actual episodes out of that one trip and out of seven people. We should be able to get three good stories. And the idea was really to duplicate this every three or four months so that people in the cancer community could go, Oh, where are they going this time? I would love to go. And they could apply to be on the trip. Now. In retrospect, I'm relatively glad that this did not come to fruition because it's really complicated and there's a lot of liability involved. 

Rich Bennett 11:21
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 11:21
And I thought my life with the podcast is much more under my control. I don't have that liability, and I think that's actually a better place for me. 

Rich Bennett 11:30
Yeah, well, with that. Well, of course, you. I'm sure you brought those people on to the podcast, right? 

Pat Wetzel 11:38
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 11:39
Okay. 

And first of all, I want to thank you for that, because talking to people, cancer survivors. 

And I've talked to several as well. But when they tell their stories and I've had listeners contact me and thank me because it helped them. 

Pat Wetzel 11:58
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 11:58
And I think when people come through, whether they're a cancer survivor, whether they talk about their some type of mental illness or like you mentioned earlier, the recovery. It definitely helps people. And, you know, thank God for people like you and others that are out there podcasts and bringing these stories forward and then like you as well, turn it into a book because not everybody listens to podcast, but now they can read the book and they can read them stories. You know, those stories 

actually in the book you discuss the concept of spiritual growth through adversity. Could you share how your own spiritual beliefs or practices have evolved as a result of the bumps? You've encountered on your own. 

Pat Wetzel 12:50
Well, I've encountered some real bumps. I want. Working on Wall Street to being totally disabled, 

going through a divorce and being in a place where I knew nobody. I didn't want to be there. And I was utterly alone. And somehow out of that absolute mess. I went cross-country, travels my anecdote to everything. So I hit the road. I went to visit some friends here and there thinking, What am I going to do? I mean, my life was really abysmal. And when I was up in Calistoga, this would have been around 89 or so. I had rented a white Mustang convertible. I'm driving through wine country, you know, the wind through my hair, the sun on my back. And I pulled into the main street of Calistoga, which back then was kind of dumpy. It wasn't all glitzy and, you know, renovated like wine. 

Rich Bennett 13:43
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 13:44
Now and I'm driving down the road and there is an airport, a runway that intersects the main street. And I looked at this, I thought, That's interesting. And I went over and they had glider rides. So I thought, Hmm, whatever. I'll give it a go. I went for a ride. It was interesting, but it didn't blow me away. And I went to. I went about my business. Well, when I got back to the East Coast, I heard about a group of lawyers that were flying gliders on the weekends. So I invited myself out for a three day weekend. I flew every day, and I was hooked. That was the beginning of the end. I learned to fly from a World War Two naval aviator who taught 

Rich Bennett 14:28
Why? 

Pat Wetzel 14:28
me to fly by the seat of my pants, which later saved me more than once. And from there, from that club, you know, you start in a two seater, you solo, then say, On my instructor had several other airplanes which were single seat planes. And he had once weighed and balanced just for me. So when I arrived at the airfield, I wouldn't have to go through all the calculations, lug weights around. I could just do a quick pre-flight and go. And that was the beginning of the end. I mean, I landed out, I made all sorts of terrible decisions and had lots of adventures. But one day I showed up at the airfield and quote unquote, my plane wasn't there. And he had committed it to an air show. And I'm like, You have got to be kidding me. I was furious. This is the most perfect soaring day. The clouds are just popping. You know, there's thermal lift everywhere. And this was in the mid-Atlantic region. 

So you don't get that many days like that. 

Rich Bennett 15:30
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 15:31
I had heard some other aviators on the radio and I decided to track them down. So I got on the phone, did some homework, did a little bit of research, found the airport, went down to visit, and I pulled in. There's a big sign at the entry of the to the airport saying, go away, private property, do not enter. Well, you know what? It's a little late for that. I pulled him. Parked the car and I was mesmerized. Oh, my God. There were all these beautiful white fiberglass, 15, 17 meter ships lined up on the runway in a grid ready to launch. I'd never seen anything like it. And I watched this one plane launch, and I my heart was just one with it. I watched the takeoff roll. I watched it leave the ground. I watched the tow plane take off and I watched them disappear into the sky. And that was it. I had to I had to do this. I had to get to higher performing planes and things. So I joined on the spot and I realized the plane situation there was worse than it was at the other airport. I had to buy it. I had to buy my own airplane. So that was the. 

Rich Bennett 16:38
White. 

Pat Wetzel 16:39
So I bought I ended up buying a plane with a pedigree. It was this is awful. It's great, though, 

when you buy one of these planes, when you fly with a competitive group like this group was, you register contest letters for your airplane. So when you're in a contest, that's how they track you and how they refer to you. And I wanted Whiskey Sierra, but it wasn't available. Somebody had already nabbed it, so I ended up with whiskey. Oscar So my plane and I became whiskey. Oscar and whiskey. Oscar is a plane with an incredible pedigree. She was built just for Carl Strudwick, a world famous pilot to fly in the world's. And I ended up with her. And the joke at the airfield, of course, was that she's being put out to pasture with me. 

Rich Bennett 17:28
Oh, God. Oh, God. 

Pat Wetzel 17:32
So that was my entree into soaring, which later led me to take whiskey. Oscar I had her in the show at Oshkosh. I took her cross-country, flew all over the place, and ended up moving from Pennsylvania to Lake Tahoe, because Lake Tahoe and the Mendon area is one of the best places in the world to soar. You can go over 30,000 feet easily on a good wave day. 

Rich Bennett 17:57
Wait a minute. Over 30,000 feet. On a guy in a glider. 

Pat Wetzel 18:02
We call them sail planes. They're very high performance 

Rich Bennett 18:04
Okay. 

Pat Wetzel 18:05
vehicles. They can go hundreds of miles on a breath of air. And 

Rich Bennett 18:08
Okay. 

Pat Wetzel 18:08
it's yeah, it's really I'll send you a video, actually. It's really a racing sport. Now, I flew for fun. I was in a few contests, but I flew for fun. And it's incredible. You can set a course, maybe a triangular course of several hundred miles, and you can fly it. 

Rich Bennett 18:27
That's got to feel so free. 

Pat Wetzel 18:28
Oh, my God. Imagine racing down a mountain spine at almost 200 miles an hour with no engine. It's magic. One of my. My. And would This started with spirituality. I'm going to go back to that because I had an amazing experience flying one day over Lake Tahoe. Now I have 15 meters of wing. All right. About 50 feet. This is a lot of wing to manage, but it also gives you a lot of distance and run. 

Rich Bennett 18:56
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 18:56
So I'm flying over Tahoe and it's beautiful. You know, the turquoise water, the blues, a little bit of snow on the mountains, sun streaming through the canopy. So at the end of these long, long wings is a little wing lit. And you've seen them on commercial planes, a little part of the wing that sticks up. So I banked to look for some left and the left wing left balances on a bubble of air. And I ride that bubble of air up through the sky. Sun streaming through the cockpit, blue turquoise water below. And for that moment, everything was one. It was as if I had entered a different dimension. I don't know how long it lasted. I don't know just what it was. It was beyond flow. I've experienced flow lots of times. This was just another dimension. And it was one of unity where everything is one. It was just amazing. So I would say that that was one of the instrumental experience sources that started me thinking in more spiritual terms and flying in general is such an incredible sport. Soaring is an incredible sport that you have to start thinking, I think, a little bit spiritually when you see this magnificent landscape unfold beneath. 

Rich Bennett 20:16
Oh. 

Pat Wetzel 20:17
And you're riding the energy of the sky. I mean, it's just it's amazing. 

Rich Bennett 20:22
It's something about it with. Now, granted, I've never done it, you know, done that, but I've been up in, you know, been in the Marine Corps, been up in planes, helicopters and all that. Enough. But it's just something about when you're looking down on that, something's truly amazing. But even when you're in the sky, looking up at the clouds or through the clouds, it's it's stuff you don't see from ground level. 

Pat Wetzel 20:50
It changes your perspective of everything. 

Rich Bennett 20:52
It does. 

Pat Wetzel 20:53
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 20:53
It does. And it's just so beautiful. One of the things I'll and I'll never forget this I thought was pretty wild because one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen when I was in Okinawa, Japan, was we saw tornado, well, waterspout, and it was Pearl White. And I just fell in love with tornadoes. Just the beauty of it. But the devastation is even worse. But I remember flying one day and there were some storms coming up. So, of course, a plane went above the clouds. Have you ever seen a storm from above the clouds? 

Pat Wetzel 21:30
It's pretty incredible. 

Rich Bennett 21:31
It is. It is amazing. 

Pat Wetzel 21:35
Now. I was supposed to stay below cloud base 

VFR, VFR rules. 

Most beautiful fly. So there are so many. But this was back in Pennsylvania, and it'd been a long day at the airfield. The sky was overcast. Nothing was. And towards the end of the day, the overcast started to break up and there were holes in the ceiling. So I took a toe through a hole up above and a balloon was flying. 

Rich Bennett 22:10
Oh, wow. 

Pat Wetzel 22:10
I came down and danced around the balloon with lots of space. I mean, nothing 

Rich Bennett 22:14
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 22:14
dangerous or anything. And it was just so beautiful. And then I descended through a hole in the cloud base and landed. It was almost dark when I landed, you know, because up above, you have a lot more light than you do 

Rich Bennett 22:27
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 22:27
as you as you get down to lower altitudes. But it was just so beautiful to see this balloon. And they're waving at me and I waved back. 

Rich Bennett 22:35
Wow. What part of Pennsylvania? 

Pat Wetzel 22:39
It was the airport was Campbell, which is over on the west shore of the Susquehanna, south of Carlisle. 

Rich Bennett 22:47
Not far from not far from where I'm at, actually. 

Pat Wetzel 22:50
Yeah. No, not too far at all. 

Rich Bennett 22:52
Wow. Carlisle's always got awesome cars. He's just saying. Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 22:57
And then the other airport was mid-Atlantic Soaring Association, which was down on the Pennsylvania, Maryland border near Emmitsburg. 

Rich Bennett 23:06
Oh, okay. Okay. I know we talked about, well, black Carroll County, I believe it was. 

Pat Wetzel 23:13
You know, I'm not sure if that's Carol, this masseur, the club. We owned our own airport, which was pretty cool, too. A lot of stories that. 

Rich Bennett 23:21
Wow. 

Pat Wetzel 23:22
But we had two airports actually, we leased hangar space at Carroll County, and then we owned the airport up in Pennsylvania. And it was interesting because two different types of pilots were attracted to the two different airports. The Carroll County crowd tended to be a little older, super conservative, hang around the airport kind of thing. Showed up at masseur was Where can we go today? Let's have some fun and I'll. I'll reissue. 

Rich Bennett 23:50
Now. Are you still flying? 

Pat Wetzel 23:51
No, I'm not. I sold whisky, Oscar, a little while ago. 

Rich Bennett 23:55
Well, I think what you need to do is book a flight and record a podcast episode from it while you're flying. 

Pat Wetzel 24:06
That's an idea. 

Rich Bennett 24:08
Some different one. I don't think it's ever been done, At least if it has, I've never heard about it. 

Pat Wetzel 24:12
I am sure it has not. I'll have to give that some thought. 

Rich Bennett 24:16
I would. I would. Here's what I would do. I would take Crimea. Well, you're a cancer survivor yourself. I would find maybe two or three cancer survivors that have never flown before. Take them on. I don't know, little Cessna or whatever or even a hot air balloon. Well, no hot air balloon. It could be too noisy if you're trying to record, but interview them while they're up there so they can enjoy the beauty and just get their take on everything. 

Pat Wetzel 24:49
I had an interesting. I don't do many rides, but I had an interesting experience at Mendon with two people doing rides. One person was 80 some odd years old and I took I took her up and she loved it. It was a day where you had to fly directly into the mountains. You knew because of the wind direction and everything else that you would get lift. So 

Rich Bennett 25:10
Okay. 

Pat Wetzel 25:10
it looks a little hairy. But the reality is, you know, as you get into that mountain phase, you're going to find the lift you need. She loved it. She had it. She was thrilled. She was ready to go again. I took another gentleman around my age up. He started screaming. He was terrified. 

Rich Bennett 25:26
That was probably me. 

Pat Wetzel 25:29
And all I could think of was Don't touch anything. Just don't touch it. I'll get you back down on the ground as quickly as possible. Do not touch anything. I just had images of a is pulling the red canopy release handle and losing the canopy or some. 

Rich Bennett 25:45
Yeah. For for the longest time. So the last time I flew was 95, 1995. I had a bad experience that I would never fly again until the seat cushions doubled as a parachute instead of a flotation device. 

Pat Wetzel 25:58
What happened? 

Rich Bennett 26:02
It was my fault. So flying down, I always tried to grab an exit seat and I saw all this silicone caulking around the exit door, so. Been used before, but luckily the flight down was down to Florida was fine. Coming back, the pilot said, you know, put your seatbelts on because we're about to hit some storms. I didn't get my seatbelt on in time. We hit them turbulence. I'm bouncing up and down, 

Pat Wetzel 26:33
Oh, my. 

Rich Bennett 26:33
landing in the guy's lap next to me. I mean, the lights are flash. I said, That's it. I'm done. Never again. So we just flew recently, actually, in February, flew down to New Orleans because my wife's cousin was get married and I consider her like a niece. So I was like, okay, I'm going to have to do this, man. I've been missing out on a lot. There ain't nothing to it. So now it's like, Yeah, now I got the bug. I want to start fly. Cause, you know, in the Corps, I was. We're flying everywhere all the time. So now when I want to do it again. But I've never done this soaring I would love. To try that. It just sounds like it'd be so free. Like, you just, you 

Pat Wetzel 27:20
It's. 

Rich Bennett 27:20
know, no sounds of the engines or anything. You're just. 

Pat Wetzel 27:25
That's actually one of the reasons I don't enjoy flying power very much. I belong to another club that has, I think it was six power planes and I enjoyed the SAT Rhea, which was a tail dragger and aerobatic. That was a lot of fun. I used to take it out on wild days because, you know, a tail dragger requires such focus. I really enjoyed. 

But I really the noise of a single engine airplane drives me crazy even with. 

Rich Bennett 27:50
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 27:51
I love the silence of soaring. And it's fun. If you get a little altitude and you see a little single, you know, like 172 or 182 puttering along, get a little altitude, you dive, you can pull up next to them, you wave and they totally freak out. 

Rich Bennett 28:08
Well, with those soaring, with the soaring planes, gliders, whatever you call them, 

the biggest ones are, what, two seaters? 

Pat Wetzel 28:16
Other single seaters and two seaters. Whisky Oscar 

Rich Bennett 28:19
Okay. 

Pat Wetzel 28:19
was the single seater. The two seaters go up too, but I'm going to say between 20 and 25 metres. 

Rich Bennett 28:28
Okay. 

Pat Wetzel 28:28
Wingspan. I mean, they're huge and they're big cruising planes as opposed to something that's more nimble, but they're great for long distance flights. 

Rich Bennett 28:38
Oh, okay. 

Pat Wetzel 28:40
Like some people compete for distance flights or speed 

Rich Bennett 28:43
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 28:43
for. A large plane like that is perfectly suited to it. But if you have to be a little scrappier and find lift and things, depending on where you're flying, a 15 or 17 metre ship might make more sense. 

Rich Bennett 28:55
Huh? Okay. I'd have to have somebody in a thing with me. So I got to do two seater. 

Pat Wetzel 29:02
Well, it's fun to fly with somebody. 

Rich Bennett 29:04
Well. Well, yes. Yeah, because I would want to record with them if I'm doing it. 

So. And then when they're headed towards a man and they can hear me scream. 

So back back to the book. 

Pat Wetzel 29:17
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 29:18
Can you explain the five steps to an authentic and meaningful life? 

Pat Wetzel 29:25
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 29:25
I think it's very important. 

Pat Wetzel 29:27
Thank you. I think that I think overall it's a quest for spirituality and identity. 

First, in terms of 

finding authenticity. You have to look at your story and you start to decide how do you want to tell your story? 

You have to you have to learn to well, this is the way I approach it. I think you have to pivot your perspective. You have to learn how to tell your story in multiple ways. Because quite honestly, most of us hit serious bumps in the road. And with those bumps you tend to tell a story that may not be all that much in your at best interest. Can you tell your story three ways? Can you tell your story from a perspective of, say, fear, anger, gratitude, love? When you start pivoting your perspective. You start to realize it is just a story and you have total choice over what you what you say and how you see things. And I think that helps you release some of the attachment to negative stories that are not in your best interest. All of that is really starts a quest for authenticity, which I think is so important because in this world we live, we're encouraged to live linear lives. You go to the school, you go to graduate school, you get married, you get the house, the car, the kids, whatever your linear perspective might be. And that is not really a very authentic life. Life is not a straight line, as one of my guests said on the podcast, and it's a line where it's squiggles, it goes forward, it goes backwards, it goes sideways. And I think the experience of life is meant to be experienced in three dimensions, not in two. And in order to integrate all that, you have to start to release and rewrite your story. I use my divorce as a great example. It was just terrible. I was not well. I was left in this place. I didn't want to be. My ex ran off with this nurse and and Oh, no. And there's more. The worst part was I was so close to his family. I loved his family. I don't know what he said or did, but they said, never contact us again. 

Rich Bennett 31:44
What? 

Pat Wetzel 31:45
Yeah. So, I mean, it was a horrific situation. 

Rich Bennett 31:50
I. 

Pat Wetzel 31:50
But if you can look back looking, that's okay. That's the tough story of it. The better side of that story is I'm very grateful. His family, you know, just said, don't talk to us because I started to fly. And his father, my ex, his father would have loved it. But oh, my God, that would have been a triangle in a triangle and a triangle with all these people involved. It would have been an absolute nightmare. So the reality was, even though it was very painful, that severance of all those relationships served me well because it freed me to do things that everybody would say I couldn't do, shouldn't do, wouldn't do, etc.. So, you know, you look back at it and you can look at it, I think, with a little bit more grace. So I think time is part of that element to release and rewrite our stories. And I really encourage people to do that because we are negatively oriented, because our brains are designed to keep us safe. But safety sometimes is not the course you need to take. Then there's the mind game, which for me is probably the most powerful going through cancer. I learned to meditate and meditation has changed my life. I encourage everybody to find some way to meditate. You may fail to find the entree to peace through sound. You may find it through sports. You may find it in nature. But there are many ways to find that peace that comes with quieting your mind. And when you quiet your mind, now, all of a sudden you can observe it. That's a total game changer. That leads to awareness. And once you become more aware it, you cycle back to greater authenticity. You start to really look at who are you? What can you do? What voices in your head are real, what aren't? And that can lead you to a path of really living a unique life. And I think ultimately, that's where we all want to go. 

Rich Bennett 33:51
Yes. Without a doubt. Yeah. I love the part, what you mentioned with meditation, because when you were talking about soaring up in the clouds as a first thing I thought was, what a beauty. I mean, just like you're meditating, you're just up there, you're soaring, you're free as a bird. And to me, that is meditation, if you can do that as well. 

Pat Wetzel 34:16
What is in your. 

Rich Bennett 34:17
Don't have this sounds. 

Pat Wetzel 34:19
Now. And part of it is you're very this goes along with meditation and awareness. 

Rich Bennett 34:23
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 34:24
You're very present moment, you're totally present and in presence. You can find flow which is magical in and of itself. 

Rich Bennett 34:31
Yes. 

Pat Wetzel 34:32
But it starts to experiences like that plus meditation start to teach you how to train your mind to be peaceful, and that changes your life. And the thing about meditation that I love, it's really fascinating. First, it's a discipline, right? You commit. 

Rich Bennett 34:53
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 34:53
Today, However often you meditate, that leads to awareness, witnessing your thoughts and having observation, being able to make choice conscious choices for maybe the first time in your life. And the reason meditation is so game changing is that it's experiential. And I always liken it to chocolate. Okay, you can read about chocolate until the cows come home. There's white chocolate. There's dark chocolate, there's milk, chocolate nuts. There's coconut. There's all sorts of different types of chocolate. But reading about chocolate doesn't inform you to the experience. 

Chocolate is experiential. Well, so is meditation. When you have these experiences of deep and profound peace oneness. Very sensual and it stays with you and it builds as your practice builds. 

Rich Bennett 35:48
You got me in charge. Thanks a lot, Pat, 

didn't you? You forgot one. Strawberry chocolate. 

Pat Wetzel 35:57
Strawberry, peach, peaches and chocolate. We could go on. 

Rich Bennett 36:00
I always think about the Strawberry Quik Milk or whatever. I because growing up all was like, well, maybe cows can make strawberry milk. 

So with these five steps. 

How do you put everything together? 

Pat Wetzel 36:18
You know, it is not linear. You go back and forth between these things and as you have new experiences, you have to integrate them into your into your life and into your outlook. And I think it's an ongoing process of examining things. Being open minded, being willing to see things differently, being willing to release things which can take a great deal of work. And it may require, you know, some counseling or some help to to do that. And I think it's all in that constant quest for finding out who you really are and following that passion versus that very linear life. We may live as younger people. 

Rich Bennett 36:56
Yeah. So you from your book, you shared Eric's story. Sarah, another story that you can share with us from the book. 

Pat Wetzel 37:06
Oh, gosh, there are so many. 

Boy, Sara Transfield comes to mind. Sarah was 16. She's English and she was diagnosed with osteosarcoma and the cancer. It's a bone cancer. And it was in her leg. 

Rich Bennett 37:25
Oh. Oh. 

Pat Wetzel 37:26
And she ended up after the first round of treatments, didn't work at all, and she ended up having an above the knee amputation, which as a 16 year old, that's so hard. She lost a year of schooling. She was out of sync with her peers. She lost her friends. It's just a really tough place to be. Well, Sarah, what on to obviously, she got a prosthetic and you have to go through a series of prosthetics because your muscles shape change as the wound 

Rich Bennett 37:52
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 37:53
changes. It's a process. It doesn't happen overnight. She went on to model and she was on the cover of Vogue, Italy. She met the queen. She went skydiving. She created. 

Rich Bennett 38:06
Wow. 

Pat Wetzel 38:07
This amazing life for herself. And it's such a powerful story in terms of what do you choose? 

Rich Bennett 38:18
I am getting from these stories in your book, 

and for those of you listening, 

you have your self-help books, you got your novels, you got fiction, you got everything. But this is a book, too, where 

it's a love story. But to me, it's also self-help, because you are talking to these people that are facing all these challenges. And excuse my language, but they regulate shaking in their way. 

Pat Wetzel 38:55
No, but they go through a lot of difficulty in terms. 

Rich Bennett 38:58
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 38:58
Of wrestling with these situations. 

Rich Bennett 39:00
Right. But they're stepping up to the challenges and 

Pat Wetzel 39:04
They 

Rich Bennett 39:04
it. 

Pat Wetzel 39:04
do. 

Rich Bennett 39:05
They're living life. You know, I think everybody can learn something from that. 

Pat Wetzel 39:11
I do too. And it is part self-help in that I think sometimes we need to see other people's stories in order to see our own. 

Rich Bennett 39:22
Yeah, without a doubt. So with this actually, did you include your story in the book? 

Pat Wetzel 39:29
You know what I did for this first book? I won't do this in the next book, but I did. In each chapter, I took a theme and I told a sort of flying story with that theme and then introduce my guest and tell their story partly so people can meet me and get to know me. 

Rich Bennett 39:45
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 39:45
And partly because I think while soaring is a little esoteric, it's really a sports story and everybody can relate to sports on some level. 

Rich Bennett 39:53
Yeah. Now, is this self-published or did you go through a publisher? 

Pat Wetzel 39:58
You know, I looked at both options and I decided to self-publish it, partly because I have about 80,000 people now in my social media networks. And when I talk to publishers, I the bottom line is it's on you to promote your book. And I 

Rich Bennett 40:13
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 40:13
was doing more already to promote Bump in the Road than any of the publishers would do. 

Rich Bennett 40:19
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 40:20
I decided it just made sense to self-publish. And I'm planning on self-publishing a whole series now of different elements of bump in the road, you know, business, strong women, cancer, travel, etc.. 

Rich Bennett 40:33
It is going to be. And I forgot the author's name, the new chicken chicken soup for the whatever book. 

Pat Wetzel 40:40
This is different. It's a different time, and the methodologies of the books are different. But that I think that was a and an amazing series of books that really drove personal 

Rich Bennett 40:51
Oh. 

Pat Wetzel 40:52
experiences home for people. 

Rich Bennett 40:54
Oh, yeah, without a doubt. And people, you still learn from them. 

Pat Wetzel 40:59
Oh. 

Rich Bennett 41:00
I learned a lot from it, just like people can learn from your book. 

Pat Wetzel 41:03
All stories are timeless. 

Rich Bennett 41:06
Your book came out was September, right? 

Pat Wetzel 41:09
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 41:10
September of last year, 2020 is the. 

Pat Wetzel 41:12
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 41:13
Okay. So how how has the response been so far? 

Pat Wetzel 41:20
Amazing. I had I reached out for endorsements, you know, for the book. And I was. Well, I was terrified. Absolutely terrified. 

Rich Bennett 41:31
Understandable. 

Pat Wetzel 41:32
And. I it was really hard for me to do this. And I interviewed Jill Bolte Taylor, the woman who she was a Harvard brain researcher who had a stroke. And she did the TED talk, my stroke of insight. It had, I thought, 20 or 40 million views. It it really put Ted on the map. But anyway, she has a new book out called Whole Brain Living, which is fascinating. And I'm not going to do her book justice at all. But just briefly. She looks at. She combines her Harvard brain researching ability with her experience in a stroke to look at how the brain functions. And she divides the brain into four parts. And it's much more complex than this. But the front left part is that organizational part of your brain. And she names her parts of the brain. I call that part of mind Star. She's a star. She gets everything done right. She's super efficient. Then the left rear part of the brain I call Mind Dark Star. That's the part of the brain that that holds every negative experience you've ever had. Every negative voice that's come your way. She's totally neurotic, and she's there to keep you safe. But all she does is really beat you down. And then there's a right side of the brain where the right rear part is your two year old who wants to eat six flavors of ice cream and leave them all out on the counter to melt because she likes ice cream and Starr will clean it up anyway. And then the last part is a more expansive spiritual part of your brain. Well, what happened when I went to ask for endorsements was every little item that ever happened to me came up. And my neurotic brain was just relentless. And thanks to this book, which really did help me, I realized that I had to let this all of this information just out. Just get it out and listen. 

Rich Bennett 43:30
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 43:30
Empathy and compassion. And that settles your brain down. And then it still took me a few days. I sent off those emails and I asked for the endorsements and I got such glowing endorsements. I was really just. Just so taken. I was very 

Rich Bennett 43:47
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 43:47
grateful. 

Rich Bennett 43:50
That she. And the thing is, and this is something I tell authors a lot, especially aspiring authors that are working on a book but haven't published it yet. I'm going to get the name of it wrong, but send out the, you know, like a advance copy that before it's published. That way you can already get the reviews and testimony. You're also putting your book. 

Pat Wetzel 44:12
Yes, that's what I did. 

Rich Bennett 44:13
Yeah. And that that helps a lot of people. Don't a lot of your author prisoners don't realize that and so those of you listening very important when you buy not if but when you buy bump in the road 15 stories of courage, Hope and resilience. After you read it, make sure you go to Amazon or Goodreads or wherever else you can leave reviews and leave a full review. I don't mean just five or four stars rate on there. Why you liked it, Why you loved it. Because I know nobody. Everybody that reads is going to like it anyway. So but make sure you do that because it's going to help Pat. So of course, more books prepare something very important which the website. 

Pat Wetzel 45:01
The website is bump in the road. U.S.. 

Rich Bennett 45:05
Oh. 

Pat Wetzel 45:06
Well, a bump in the road AECOM was taken. This was an endeavor. I didn't know how it would go or what would happen. And they wanted $5,000 for the URL. So. 

Rich Bennett 45:15
What? 

Pat Wetzel 45:16
Yeah. So I thought, no bump in the road. U.S. is just fine. 

Rich Bennett 45:20
Well, it makes a lot of sense because you think about it. And you said you lived in Pennsylvania for a while, right? There's a lot of bumps in the road up there. Is it? 

Pat Wetzel 45:31
I think life is full of bumps and you have to learn to look at them with curiosity and a sense of humor and over 

Rich Bennett 45:38
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 45:38
time, perspective and just keep putting one foot in front of the other. 

Rich Bennett 45:43
So when do you when are you hoping that the second book comes out? 

Pat Wetzel 45:47
I would like to get it out this year. I have a lot on my plate. I'm doing a lot of speaking, and I'm actually moving in September, so it might be a little bit, if I can get it out. This year will be the end of the year. If not, it'll be, I hope, the first quarter of 2025. 

Rich Bennett 46:04
Are you moving back up the pay? 

Pat Wetzel 46:06
No, I'm moving to Idaho. 

Rich Bennett 46:08
Okay, Never mind. So I'm still going to be far away. 

Pat Wetzel 46:13
Well, you know, the rivers and the mountains. I'm a I'm a mountain 

Rich Bennett 46:15
Oh. 

Pat Wetzel 46:16
girl and I kayak and those huge, beautiful alpine lakes. 

Rich Bennett 46:20
I can't blame you. 

Pat Wetzel 46:21
So beautiful. 

Rich Bennett 46:23
Yeah. So with the guy, I just completely just lost my train of thought that quick. Holy cow. 

Wow. I had a question right on the tip of my tongue, and I. 

Pat Wetzel 46:40
It'll come 

Rich Bennett 46:40
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 46:40
to. 

Rich Bennett 46:40
Prime might not be till tomorrow. 

Pat Wetzel 46:44
I'm with you there. 

Rich Bennett 46:47
So with your podcast, where would you like to see your podcast go? Because the books, I think the books are taking off and you're going on, you know, several other podcasts to promote it, right? 

Pat Wetzel 47:03
Yes, I've been on a lot of podcasts, actually, so my favorites are on the website under press. 

Rich Bennett 47:09
Okay. 

Pat Wetzel 47:10
Some great conversations there. 

Rich Bennett 47:13
So with the pie your pie case, where do you find time? Because you're doing your one on another podcast, your record and your podcast. You're working on your second book. 

Pat Wetzel 47:24
And I'm and I'm moving into video. And video and audio are two different products. 

Rich Bennett 47:28
Yes. That you do all the editing yourself. 

Pat Wetzel 47:31
I have a wonderful sound editor that takes care of the podcast. On the video side, I'm doing I'm keeping it fairly straightforward and simple for the moment and so that I can do the editing on that because it gets very expensive. 

Rich Bennett 47:48
Yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 47:49
Yeah. People don't realize they think podcasts are free and there's no work, and that is just so not the case. 

Rich Bennett 47:55
Yeah. No, unfortunately, there are some people out there that use that free platform and then they wonder why their podcast isn't doing so well. 

Pat Wetzel 48:06
And I'm also moving more and more to Substack. 

Rich Bennett 48:10
I've been looking into that. 

Pat Wetzel 48:12
I love subs. I've been on Substack for a while, but I wasn't really seriously focusing on it. And now what I'm doing is I'm moving away from MailChimp, which gets very expensive very quickly. To doing the newsletter, which is every two weeks through Substack and MailChimp. Now MailChimp has some peculiarities that I don't care for, but Substack I think is a wonderful community and it's very community oriented, which helps you grow your base and help helps bring people a greater awareness of what you're doing. So I'm hoping in the next week to have that done. The newsletter scheduled to come out Sunday. I may need to hustle a little bit to see if I can get it on Substack rather than MailChimp. 

Rich Bennett 48:56
Well, actually, your podcast is the same website, right? 

Pat Wetzel 49:00
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 49:01
U.S. and. 

Pat Wetzel 49:01
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 49:02
Subscribe to the newsletter there. 

Pat Wetzel 49:04
Is there? Everything is there. 

Rich Bennett 49:06
Okay. Yeah, because I've been looking into Substack. Who? I think it was Daniel J. Lewis uses that as well. But I've also. Go ahead. 

Pat Wetzel 49:18
I'm not migrating the website over there. I'm just using 

Rich Bennett 49:21
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 49:21
Substack as an extra community. 

Rich Bennett 49:24
Yeah. Yeah. Because I use well, besides social media, I love using PA page for the website. Because it just it's so easy. I design websites on the side. But when I could do my own and just have have it do it automatically makes it even better. That's what I would do pad page. But it I've been looking at substack, like you said, for another community. Communicate with my listeners 

and that I love the voicemail feature on on poppy page but with. 

Pat Wetzel 50:03
Way to reach people. 

Rich Bennett 50:05
There is. There is. And the thing is, the way podcasts are growing, you're seeing all these new tools that are coming out that to help podcast masters. But at the same time, you've got to be careful because there are some out there that really don't do diddly squat for you. 

Pat Wetzel 50:24
And it's very hard to see through it. And with I you're getting overlap now between a lot of services. 

Rich Bennett 50:30
Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. And he's scaring a lot of people. Although he's been around since, I believe, the fifties. Maybe even earlier than that. I always tell people, if you're going to if you're going to use it, learn it and use it. Because think about it. We've been using it forever. I remember the old GPS. Yes, it was air. Anyway, so. But so with your podcast and I think you're into what, the top 5% global. 

Pat Wetzel 51:06
You know, I don't even I have stopped looking at all the stats because it's a passion project for me. 

Rich Bennett 51:13
Okay. 

Pat Wetzel 51:13
I used to drive myself crazy with social media stats. I just. I just won't do it anymore. I just focus on what intrigues me and go in that go in that direction. 

Rich Bennett 51:26
Okay. Yeah. One of the things I ignore is the downloads, because downloads don't equal listeners. It doesn't equal plays. 

Pat Wetzel 51:33
Oh, no. 

Rich Bennett 51:33
Charts. 

Pat Wetzel 51:35
Now, the statistical analysis aspect of this is very fragmented, like YouTube doesn't correlate with, say, any of the distributors like Lipson. 

Rich Bennett 51:44
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 51:45
You know, it's. You can't. 

Rich Bennett 51:47
Yet. 

Pat Wetzel 51:47
It. Numbers? Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 51:49
Yeah. Yeah. It's not like radio. Where is your in radio. You it, it would tell you basically how many females, how many males. Supposedly there are some pockets and things out there that can do that. I don't know how because unless I mean like right now they can't tell if it's a guy or girl using my computer. 

Pat Wetzel 52:16
Now Facebook has some pretty good demographics, but then you have to deal with Facebook. 

Rich Bennett 52:21
Yeah. 

Pat Wetzel 52:22
Enough said. 

Rich Bennett 52:24
So. But right now your people can catch your podcast on all the platforms, right? 

Pat Wetzel 52:29
All the major. I mean, Apple, Spotify, iHeart Radio, we're everywhere. Wherever you listen. Yeah, wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find Bump in the road. 

Rich Bennett 52:39
So before I get to my last question, is there anything you would like to. 

Pat Wetzel 52:46
No other than we should definitely get one of our mutual guests and have some fun sometime. 

Rich Bennett 52:52
I love that idea. I'm 

Pat Wetzel 52:53
I 

Rich Bennett 52:53
going 

Pat Wetzel 52:53
did. 

Rich Bennett 52:53
to I'm going to look through your podcast to see who do I know or who have I talked to that you've also talked to? And there's also a ton. If you have it, there's a ton I could recommend to you as well. 

Pat Wetzel 53:08
There are so many good stories and. You know, I tend to just follow my interests. What I should do is be more oriented towards verticals, like maybe do a section, a series on vet veterans, that type of series on near-death experiences. That does happen over time. But I try to keep a good mix in there, too, because I think we can learn from every life circumstance. 

Rich Bennett 53:34
Actually. How many amputees have you spoken with? 

Pat Wetzel 53:37
Oh, several. I don't know how many off the top of my head, but several. 

Rich Bennett 53:42
Okay. And the reason I ask is I had a local company here. 

The first time they came on my part and we record in person. So the first time they came on, they brought one of their patients with them and they just came on again and brought a different one. And they're the name in the company's real life prosthetics. 

Pat Wetzel 54:06
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 54:07
But the last person they brought on had the bionic arm. 

Pat Wetzel 54:11
Oh, really? 

Rich Bennett 54:12
Oh, my God. Pat, I am, too. I was blown away, and this young man lost his left arm and his left leg in a bad accident. But just talk. He. I even told him during the pilot, I said you should be going to schools or going out there in public, speaking just because you're so 

He didn't mind telling his story. But he's very good at talking as well. And I know that people would listen to him. But he the whole time he showed me how this arm works and like he could pick up a grape with the fingers from from his prosthetic arm and not squish it. But he could also pick up a walnut and squish it. And it's it's got these sensors that wrap around it because he's from the elbow up above the elbow is where he lost his arm. So he's got this strap that wraps wraps around that part of his arm with 16 sensors in it. I mean, it's awesome. When we were younger, you remember watching $6 Million Man. 

Pat Wetzel 55:18
Oh, sure. 

Rich Bennett 55:19
Mean, you're thinking, Oh, we'll never get there. Guess what? We're there. But I was thinking that could be. If you wanted to talk to me more, I could put you in contact with the. I don't know if they can record virtually or not. If not that he get set up. 

Pat Wetzel 55:34
No, I'd love to talk to him because I. I think loss of a limb is something really hard to deal with. One of the gentlemen 

Rich Bennett 55:41
Mm hmm. 

Pat Wetzel 55:42
has been on the podcast, David Dishman, who's started off as a humanitarian photographer and got into travel, photography and leading groups. He fell off a 60 foot wall broke. As I recall, his legs, pelvis, I mean, he was very badly injured. And just recently, that was around 2012 ish. I'm going to say 

Rich Bennett 56:01
Right. 

Pat Wetzel 56:01
he recently ended up having his leg amputated. I think around the knee. Around the knee, because of the pain and everything associated with all those injuries was just too much. And he has just bounced right back. He's out, you know, swimming, taking pictures, climbing, doing whatever he wants to do. And I will have him back on to talk about that because it's a really difficult thing. He was very honest about how difficult it was. The phantom pain, the fear. 

Rich Bennett 56:33
Yes. 

Pat Wetzel 56:34
Everything that went into the experience. But now he's on the other side of it and his life is good. 

Rich Bennett 56:44
When I heard about that phantom pain, to me, that was just like, weird. It's like, how can you feel? Pain is something that's not there. Which is why they call it phantom pain. But that it's that's got to be. I can't even imagine. And I. 

Pat Wetzel 57:01
What comes to my mind is think about mental pain. It's not there when you relive. 

Rich Bennett 57:05
Well, that's true. 

Pat Wetzel 57:06
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 57:07
That is true. And I've always said that mental pain is a lot harder than physical pain. It hurts more. I think. 

Pat Wetzel 57:15
It lingers, I think. 

Rich Bennett 57:17
Yeah, absolutely. So for my last caller, I love asking guests this, especially if they've been on a lot of other podcasts and so the question that they ask doesn't have to do what we talked about today. It can if you want. But in general, and of all the hosts that have that you have spoken with, is there anything a host has never asked you that you wish they would have asked you? And if so, what would be that question and what would be your answer? 

Pat Wetzel 57:51
I'm pausing because I don't know that I'm looking to be asked any particular question. I like a more organic conversation like this because it takes you off on a tangent you would never think of. And I have so many different experiences. I don't talk about my cancer experience that much. But for a cancer oriented audience, I think that's a a powerful area to explore. 

Rich Bennett 58:18
Yeah. You know what? That was a great answer. I love that because it's all part of the conversation. To that. Pat, I want to thank you so much. It's been an honor and a true pleasure. And I'm going to look through the see who we both have had on if if it's more than one, that means we're just going to do several episodes together. 

Pat Wetzel 58:44
Oh, gosh, that would be such hardship. 

Rich Bennett 58:47
I would love that to go 

Pat Wetzel 58:48
I think 

Rich Bennett 58:49
on. 

Pat Wetzel 58:49
it would be a blast. 

Rich Bennett 58:51
And what I would also like to do it. We haven't done one in a while. We're going to have to do one. But once in a while we'll do these virtual roundtables. So we've done them. See, I know we've done a couple on mental health. We haven't done one of authors yet. That's one we've been talking about because authors can learn so much from each other, especially when it comes to the marketing part. 

Pat Wetzel 59:18
Oh, it's huge. 

Rich Bennett 59:20
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think that's one of the biggest things that all authors struggle with is the marketing. And they don't realize you have to. It's a business. 

Pat Wetzel 59:31
It is. And I belong to several authors groups, and I'm so grateful for them. I learn, we share things and it it is just it's like anything else you need to know you're not alone and that your struggles and difficulties are not uniquely yours. Everybody is trying to deal with this in their own way, and I think the support of a group like that in any endeavor is really meaningful. 

Rich Bennett 59:57
Yes, absolutely. Pat, I want to thank you again. It's been fun. I can't wait to talk to you again, everybody. Again, make sure you get the book Bump in the Road. 15 Stories of Courage, Hope and Resilience. Leave a review after you read it. And if you want to get in touch with Pat and of course, you got to listen to her show anyway, So make sure you go to her Web site, Pat, tell her by the Web site again. Very. 

Pat Wetzel 1:00:24
Bump in the road. Bump in the road U.S..