The Hidden Heroes of Mental Health Recovery

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning ten this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we shared laughs, tears and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next ten years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios. Harford County Living presents conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Today, I'm going to get kind. 

No, no, no. The truth is. 

Wendy Beck 1:00
This is Wendy and I'm joined here with Rich and. 

Rich Bennett 1:03
I'm co-hosting. Its conversations with Wendy. 

Wendy Beck 1:08
From Marilyn Wellness. Welcome back. 

Leann Roderick 1:10
Q Thank you. 

Wendy Beck 1:11
And we're doing an episode today to talk about some of the things that they do in the mental health space. And you brought some guests with us. You guys want to introduce yourself? 

Ashia Herndon 1:20
I'm Ayesha. I'm a PR counselor with Maryland Wellness. 

Ralph Watkins 1:23
My name is Ralph Watkins. I'm a rehab specialist with Maryland Wellness. 

Leann Roderick 1:27
And just my name is Leon Roderick. I'm a community relations coordinator with Maryland Wellness. So I'm the face of Maryland wellness in Harford County. 

Wendy Beck 1:36
Awesome. We we had LeAnn on here before, but today with our guests, I think you're going to tell us a little bit more about the program and what it does for those in the county just half the county or. 

Leann Roderick 1:49
So we actually have seven offices throughout the state of Maryland. 

Rich Bennett 1:52
Wow. 

Leann Roderick 1:53
So we originated as both. More area community health services in Baltimore in 2013 and since then have expanded, acquired some companies, expanded the company to became Maryland Wellness because we were no longer just in the Baltimore area. And. Right. Harvard County is our one of our current expansion projects. I myself, I'm a Harvard County resident. I've lived here my whole life. And like Wendy said, I was on the podcast before with another organization specifically around substance abuse. And what I was seeing when I worked in substance abuse is that there wasn't enough resources specifically for the substance abuse community in the mental health world. And so when I made the decision to kind of venture out and see what else was out there for me. I saw an opportunity to work at bring more mental health services to Harvard County, and that was really important to me. 

Rich Bennett 2:50
Why do you suppose that was? That there is. I mean, it seems like correct me if I'm wrong, but for a while it's like the county was struggling 

Ralph Watkins 2:58
Just for. 

Rich Bennett 2:58
to get the resources for recovery. 

Leann Roderick 3:02
Right. 

Rich Bennett 3:03
But you're saying that there you 

Ralph Watkins 3:05
You had 

Rich Bennett 3:05
had a. 

Ralph Watkins 3:05
a lot of people or a lot of. Sources for. 

Rich Bennett 3:08
Recovery, but not a lot for mental health issues. 

Leann Roderick 3:10
Right. And I do think the way that society has tackled these two issues are very different. But what I think the big push, especially I want to say after like around 2018 in the realm of substance abuse, was people 

Ralph Watkins 3:24
People. 

Leann Roderick 3:24
were dying and they were dying at high, high numbers. So, you know, these terminology were coming out at the time of like this global epidemic of substance abuse. And there had to be like almost a crisis response for that so that we could try to prevent these mass deaths 

Rich Bennett 3:43
Right. 

Leann Roderick 3:44
across the entire nation. Whereas mental health, I wouldn't say that people aren't dying because they are. In fact, one of the big focuses in Harford County government right now is to lower our suicide rate. 

Rich Bennett 3:58
Yes. 

Leann Roderick 4:00
But it wasn't as much of a like crisis need as the community saw it in like 2018 is the way I think it would. 

Rich Bennett 4:09
Right. 

Wendy Beck 4:09
Now, do you think that the visibility to that was brought more to light after COVID? Because we had a lot of mental health issues that were. Stemming from that time, 

Leann Roderick 4:21
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 4:21
you know, especially with our younger kids and school and anxiety and depression and all of that. So I 

Leann Roderick 4:26
Mm 

Wendy Beck 4:26
I'm 

Leann Roderick 4:27
hmm. 

Wendy Beck 4:27
wondering, is that where you guys just kind of decided that we we need more services or not just you guys, but in general because 

Leann Roderick 4:33
Right. 

Wendy Beck 4:33
of COVID. 

Leann Roderick 4:34
I think that 

Ralph Watkins 4:35
Slowly. 

Leann Roderick 4:35
slowly 

Ralph Watkins 4:36
There 

Leann Roderick 4:36
there. 

Ralph Watkins 4:36
was like a. 

Leann Roderick 4:36
A push for mental health services the whole time. And like I said, I think that the awareness and the stigma around mental health so stigma has been coming down in both senses. 

Wendy Beck 4:48
Right. 

Rich Bennett 4:49
Thank 

Leann Roderick 4:49
And 

Rich Bennett 4:49
God. 

Leann Roderick 4:49
mental health. 

But it wasn't as like. It wasn't like this year there was this many deaths and this year it tripled to like three or four times that amount until after COVID, we did start seeing higher numbers. 

Rich Bennett 5:03
Mm hmm. 

Leann Roderick 5:04
And things like that. But I do think that that was the need for mental health services or the desire, I guess, for mental health services in the community has been steadily increasing over long periods of time. But Ralph's been a provider in the field longer than I have been working in the field, 

Wendy Beck 5:22
Why 

Leann Roderick 5:22
So I'd 

Wendy Beck 5:22
not? 

Leann Roderick 5:22
love to hear. 

Wendy Beck 5:22
Yeah. And I was going to ask him because you consider yourself your title is a recovery. 

Ralph Watkins 5:29
So when we hear recovery, 

Wendy Beck 5:31
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 5:31
we want to think substance abuse 

Wendy Beck 5:32
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 5:33
and in psychiatric recovery is is it's an adjunct to therapy. If you're you know, you're seeing a therapist. But there's a lot of things. And one of the things that I like to say is therapy works on feelings. PRP, psychiatric rehabilitation works on behaviors. 

Wendy Beck 5:52
Partial hospitalization. 

Ralph Watkins 5:54
No psychic 

Wendy Beck 5:54
No. 

Ralph Watkins 5:55
mobility. 

Wendy Beck 5:55
Well, you said PRP. 

Leann Roderick 5:56
So AHP is partial hospital. 

Wendy Beck 5:59
Okay, so what's PRP? 

Ralph Watkins 6:00
Psychiatric rehabilitation program. 

Wendy Beck 6:02
Okay. Thank you. 

Ralph Watkins 6:04
And it works on those behaviors. One of the things that I feel with COVID, when it came, a lot of those feelings of isolation were were exaggerated. I mean, were, you know, exasperated. They're worse. I mean, if you have if you have a kid who struggles with communicating with people, they struggle with building relationships. Now, we're going to not go to school. We're going to stay at home and we're going to homeschool. We're going to, you know, not engage in sports. We're not going to engage in activities outside. So if you've had some mental health issues, they're going to be worse. In PR, he addresses that isolation. People feel we're encouraging, you know, appropriate interactions in community, appropriate relationships. How many people have relationships with others, but they're really not healthy. You know, you're really not, you know, helping yourself 

Wendy Beck 6:55
So what's the what's how do you tackle that? I mean, I'm just curious, like, what type of program like what do you do 

Ralph Watkins 7:01
in 

Wendy Beck 7:01
in 

Ralph Watkins 7:01
the. 

Wendy Beck 7:01
that type of programming for. 

Ralph Watkins 7:02
For that individual. 

Wendy Beck 7:04
I know it's probably specific to the individual as well, but there's 

Ralph Watkins 7:08
There's got 

Wendy Beck 7:09
got to 

Ralph Watkins 7:09
to 

Wendy Beck 7:09
be. 

Ralph Watkins 7:09
be some kind of. 

Wendy Beck 7:10
Like first. 

Ralph Watkins 7:11
Steps. So the first step would be and this would be an assessment where we would, you know, work out the issues the clients having, whether it's with managing coping skills, managing frustration, being able to pay your bills because you're too depressed. 

Rich Bennett 7:27
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 7:27
Being able to, you know, go to work. 

Rich Bennett 7:32
Went to work. 

Ralph Watkins 7:33
Right, wanting to work. So we're doing that assessment. We're in. It's individualized where we're, you know, trying to identify the issues that clients having with our our policy is to do the assessment within ten days. 

Wendy Beck 7:46
Is the assessment like a test or. 

Ralph Watkins 7:48
It's just 

Wendy Beck 7:49
Counseling 

Ralph Watkins 7:49
that it's 

Wendy Beck 7:49
sessions. 

Ralph Watkins 7:49
the. Counsellor talking to the client and identifying and it's everything is client steered. 

We're not going to sit here and impose what we think you need to work on. 

Rich Bennett 8:00
Mm hmm. The. 

Ralph Watkins 8:01
The clients going to have a say in how their treatment goes as long as it's appropriate and. 

Wendy Beck 8:06
Right. Right. 

Ralph Watkins 8:08
So then within doing that assessment within ten days, then we're going to put an individual rehabilitation plan together and that will be done within ten days of the assessing me and. We're going to go over the goals, you know, with the client. What do they want to work on? Do they, you know, work on improved interactions, They work on symptom management. Do they want to work on trying to get a job? 

Rich Bennett 8:30
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 8:31
Trying to find a place to live. Then we're going to put that IRP together with the client. 

Wendy Beck 8:36
IRP. 

Ralph Watkins 8:38
IRP Individual Rehabilitation Plan. 

Wendy Beck 8:40
I'm just. I always like 

Ralph Watkins 8:40
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 8:41
to. Very clear that everyone understands what we're talking about, because sometimes I don't know. 

Ralph Watkins 8:45
Right. 

Rich Bennett 8:45
The earth. 

Wendy Beck 8:46
Yes, 

Ralph Watkins 8:46
The. 

Wendy Beck 8:47
the IRP. 

Ralph Watkins 8:48
You know, you want to go and you want to use your little, you know, acronyms or whatever, you know, to it's RPA individual rehabilitation. 

Wendy Beck 8:55
Okay. Well, all industries have their. 

Ralph Watkins 8:58
Yeah, they've got. 

Wendy Beck 8:58
So I just like to make sure. 

Ralph Watkins 9:00
So then we're going to we use smart goals, and a smart goal is a goal that's measurable in quantity and in length of time. So we're going to work on a client, we're going to say, Identify. 

Three things they struggle with in their symptom management, and we're going to work on that goal over six months. We're going to use a smart goal because it's something measurable so we can see if the clients make. 

Rich Bennett 9:26
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 9:27
And then once we've achieved that goal, the client feels, you know what, I feel confident that that's not an issue anymore. Then we're going to move on to another goal. A client has the the right to review their IRP whenever they want. It's not just every six months. 

To reassess their goals so that it's, you know, person centered on what they want to work 

Wendy Beck 9:51
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 9:52
And so and there's such a variety of things that can be addressed in appropriate program. And so we kind of talked a little bit about like employment or symptom management. But it could be. And to kind of rouse point of the client choosing what they want to work on, clients don't always know therapeutically what that means, but what they could identify is I'm going to lose my housing if X, Y, Z doesn't change. And so in the client's perspective, it's like, Hey, help me find funding for said housing or help me do that, which we can. 

Wendy Beck 10:26
We can help with that stuff. 

Leann Roderick 10:28
But that's where, you know, therapeutically we come in or the providers come in and say, okay, if your goal. 

Ralph Watkins 10:35
Is 

Leann Roderick 10:35
Is 

Ralph Watkins 10:35
there housing 

Leann Roderick 10:35
we want to maintain housing. We need to figure out what behaviors led us to the point that we're losing our housing 

Ralph Watkins 10:41
in 

Leann Roderick 10:41
in 

Ralph Watkins 10:41
the. 

Leann Roderick 10:41
the first place. Kind of setting almost 

Wendy Beck 10:43
You're 

Leann Roderick 10:43
back. 

Wendy Beck 10:44
not fixing it for them. You're assessing how they got there. 

Leann Roderick 10:47
You might temporarily help them fix. 

Wendy Beck 10:49
Right. 

Leann Roderick 10:49
While we addressed the behavior that led to 

Rich Bennett 10:51
You're helping them fix it themselves, 

Leann Roderick 10:53
correct. 

Rich Bennett 10:54
which is very important. 

Wendy Beck 10:56
Do they usually come to you at a state where they are at a point of no return in certain situations? I mean, I would think that, you know, there's a stigma there to. 

Leann Roderick 11:06
Right. And so the intent of PRP is to keep people out of the hospitals, so to manage mental health symptoms so that they don't become hospitalized for that mental health. And so in order for a client to be 

eligible for PRP, they have to come with a clinical diagnosis from a therapist or a mental health. 

Ralph Watkins 11:33
Qualifying diagnosis. 

Leann Roderick 11:34
Yes. And so 

for children, that can be any mental health diagnosis other than autism, they can have a diagnosis of autism. It can't be the reason they're being referred for that service. And for adults, there's a series that I'll let Ralph get into in a minute, but so to say so essentially somebody with a clinical license or a psychiatric license is recommending this person to the service generally because they're at a. 

Rich Bennett 12:06
Right. 

Leann Roderick 12:07
Where they're live. 

Wendy Beck 12:07
They need 

Leann Roderick 12:08
They. 

Wendy Beck 12:08
some help. Okay. Gotcha. 

Leann Roderick 12:10
Mm hmm. 

Ralph Watkins 12:11
And with the children and getting, you know, getting approval for services, you have to show that their current mental health status affects their daily life. 

Rich Bennett 12:19
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 12:20
That's the bar for, you know, children and adolescents for adults. You have Category A and category B, diagnosed diagnosis. Category A would be schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder. And. 

Leann Roderick 12:34
Anything involved. 

Ralph Watkins 12:34
Bipolar, schizoaffective. Category B would be your. Your bipolar is without schizoaffective traits are major depression. 

Wendy Beck 12:44
What about trauma? Like, how does trauma fit into this? Because I know that a lot of times, like, let's just say COVID was traumatic. So you have somebody that's susceptible to anxiety and depression, you know, genetically or based on a situation. 

Ralph Watkins 12:57
Situation. 

Wendy Beck 12:58
And so they have this traumatic event and you see that they start to change in a decline, being able to function. Is that something that's also it doesn't have to necessarily be like a specific mental health. It could be something that was facilitated by trauma or environment or that. 

Ralph Watkins 13:19
For children and adolescents it could, but for adults it's pretty hard and fast. You have to have the. 

Wendy Beck 13:24
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 13:25
But trauma and depression go hand in hand. 

Rich Bennett 13:29
Mm. 

Wendy Beck 13:29
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 13:30
Right. And so when we talk about these diagnoses, so the Category A that Ralph discussed, like those people, somebody with schizophrenia, it is kind of clinically understood as as Ralph has explained to me before, that they're probably always going to need some sort of support. 

Rich Bennett 13:45
Right. 

Leann Roderick 13:45
And so they're almost always like. Once that diagnosis has been made. Yes, we want to identify the reasons why PRP is necessary, but PRP is almost always going to be necessary versus the Category B, bipolar and major depressive. Those ones are not always going to qualify because as we know, with major depressive disorder sometimes are worse than others. Right. And so if somebody has depression. But, you know, for the most part, they're generally able to work. They're on medication. It seems to be working. That person is probably not likely going to qualify for PRP. However, if we have somebody is suffering from major depressive disorder and they can't shower, they can. Go to work. They're not socializing because the mental health disorder is impacting their ability, like Ralph says, for daily living. Then that person would qualify. And so when we come back to that trauma piece, like trauma itself is not going to diagnose or allow somebody to have the diagnosis for that. But if the symptoms of that trauma are one of these more. 

Wendy Beck 14:52
Gotcha. 

Leann Roderick 14:52
Kind of severe mental health qualifications, then they would. 

Wendy Beck 14:56
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 14:57
And, you know, the reality is with a client with schizophrenia, we're not curing anyone. It's 

Rich Bennett 15:03
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 15:03
about maintaining 

Wendy Beck 15:04
Men. 

Ralph Watkins 15:05
their current level of care. You know. As long as it's appropriate, as long as it's a healthy situation. You know, if you have a client who's maybe. 

Food. Ah, you know, I've had clients who will let their trash collect in their house. It becomes a safety issue. That's 

Rich Bennett 15:22
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 15:22
that's not, you know, an appropriate level of care to maintain your life. So we're coming in to work with them to, you know, basically keep them out of a more restrictive program or keep them out of the hospital. 

Leann Roderick 15:40
Kind of links into the substance abuse world is I can't tell you what I ran into when I was working in recovery Housing was we would have clients with clear mental health. Diagnosis situation. And they wouldn't be it wouldn't be therapeutically safe based on their current behaviors to keep them in the house with these other clients that aren't exhibiting these. 

Wendy Beck 16:03
Yes. 

Leann Roderick 16:04
And and I'm sure you've read 

Wendy Beck 16:05
Yeah, 

Leann Roderick 16:05
into 

Wendy Beck 16:06
we. 

Leann Roderick 16:06
that. And so we were running into the issue where it was. We didn't know where to send them. Short of hospitalization. We didn't know. 

Wendy Beck 16:15
Right. 

Leann Roderick 16:16
Ill. And so kind of intervening, having somebody so so that these recovery houses can handle somebody with a more. health diagnosis like schizophrenia or some of these others to kind of link them up with these dual services while they live in these settings. So Ralph said, we can keep them in the safe living environment that they're in without jeopardizing the safety of other people in these living environments. 

Rich Bennett 16:45
Okay, so do you guys, because I'm thinking that would you say that the hoarders especially. 

Leann Roderick 16:50
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 16:51
Do you actually go to the people's homes as well? Really? 

Ashia Herndon 16:57
And. 

Ralph Watkins 16:57
And that's where you find. 

Ashia Herndon 16:59
You find out a lot about the person. 

Rich Bennett 17:00
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 17:01
Being in their space. You 

Ashia Herndon 17:03
You 

Ralph Watkins 17:03
look. 

Ashia Herndon 17:03
look and you see that they are. You know, some 

Ralph Watkins 17:06
Is 

Ashia Herndon 17:06
clients, 

Ralph Watkins 17:07
there. 

Ashia Herndon 17:07
they're anxious about checking their mail so they don't check it at all. 

Rich Bennett 17:10
Yeah. 

Ralph Watkins 17:10
You have bills piled. 

Ashia Herndon 17:11
Piled up and they 

Ralph Watkins 17:12
You 

Ashia Herndon 17:12
don't. 

Ralph Watkins 17:12
don't really realize the correlation between their mental 

Ashia Herndon 17:14
Health and their 

Ralph Watkins 17:15
behavior. 

Ashia Herndon 17:15
behaviors. So like my. 

Ralph Watkins 17:17
Like we're like the. 

Ashia Herndon 17:18
The foot soldiers. 

Rich Bennett 17:19
Right. 

Ashia Herndon 17:20
Kind of connect the service between. 

Ralph Watkins 17:22
Therapy. 

Ashia Herndon 17:23
And the behaviors they have to kind of help them work between those. 

Wendy Beck 17:26
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 17:27
That's great, because I know some people don't even like to go out of their house or even let somebody in. 

Ralph Watkins 17:33
And that's the thing about COVID. You know, it it. If you have somebody who doesn't want to leave their house, who doesn't have appropriate interactions with anybody, who doesn't have community resources. 

Rich Bennett 17:44
Mm hmm. 

Ralph Watkins 17:46
Let's do everything by tell a service. I mean, tell service. Don't get me wrong, it has expanded care for mental health. It has got people, you know, medical treatment that, you know, probably could not get out of the house is easy for. 

Rich Bennett 18:01
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 18:02
It's a great thing, but. 

Rich Bennett 18:04
still need that one on one in person. 

Ralph Watkins 18:05
You still need that one on one you still need. I mean, if you're struggling with all these things of I. I have problems interacting with people. Well, now I've kind of been given the excuse to stay in my house and not do anything and maybe compound the problem, make it worse. 

Rich Bennett 18:22
Now, especially when it comes to mental health, you know, especially with depression if you're sitting with that person 

Ralph Watkins 18:29
One. 

Rich Bennett 18:29
one. One. And there are sometimes people. We talked about this the other day. Sometimes people just need a hug. You can't do that when you're looking at somebody on screen. 

Ralph Watkins 18:40
Now. 

Rich Bennett 18:41
And that, but that can make a huge difference. 

Wendy Beck 18:44
There's a certain level of detachment where, you know, you can be on the other side of a screen and you're not really in a situation where you have to be truthful. There's like a there's like a there's that border or whatever barrier that you you know, you can only get so close. 

Rich Bennett 19:02
Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 19:02
I talk about that all the time, and I can't tell you how many clients I've had that are resistance resistant to mental health treatment in general. And so they can tell, especially in behind a screen, but even in person with therapists like I've been in therapy, I know how that works. They can essentially tell that provider whatever they want to tell that provider. They can say that their house is great and nobody has a drinking problem and. You have all this food in the cabinet and blah blah. 

Wendy Beck 19:32
Nobody knows. 

Leann Roderick 19:32
Nobody knows if that's true. And having providers go in and be like, All right, can you can you just show me what your pantry looks like? That I can make sure that your kids. 

Wendy Beck 19:43
Is it like a wellness check? 

Ralph Watkins 19:45
It's I mean, it's a PR service. You know it. We can see session, we can say service. I mean, one of this has happened with me in the past three months. The fact that we're going to clients houses, we're catching psychotic breaks. 

Wendy Beck 20:02
What 

Rich Bennett 20:02
Oh, 

Wendy Beck 20:02
is. 

Rich Bennett 20:02
wow. 

Wendy Beck 20:02
What are you. 

Ralph Watkins 20:03
We're getting a client has, you know, they've not slept. They have an eight there, you know. You know, they're bipolar, schizo effective. They haven't eaten. They haven't slept. And the longer they go without sleeping, the more paranoid and irrational. 

Wendy Beck 20:16
Worse the. 

Rich Bennett 20:16
Uh huh. 

Ralph Watkins 20:17
The worse the symptoms get. If. If PRP wasn't going to the house, then that wouldn't have been caught and that could have ended up in a way worse situation than it was. 

Rich Bennett 20:28
They could have been a statistic. And you don't want that. 

Ralph Watkins 20:31
Right. 

Rich Bennett 20:32
In a bad way. 

Ralph Watkins 20:33
Right. And it's a great thing to be everybody. I don't care who you are. You need someone in your life to say, this is your perception, but this is the reality. And the ideal way that this works is you have a client and you build up a rapport with them. And I like to call it you. You build up and you save emotional currency with with the client so that the day comes where these clients really make some unsaved choices. I can say to the client. This is this is what you think, but this is what really is going on. And that's because I've developed a rapport in a therapeutic relationship with the client. And I built that emotional currency up that the day comes that I can spend it and say, maybe we need to go get you evaluated at 

Rich Bennett 21:21
Mm 

Ralph Watkins 21:21
the. 

Rich Bennett 21:22
hmm. 

Ralph Watkins 21:22
Ah. Maybe we need to go talk to your therapist. It's a great thing when it's done right. 

Wendy Beck 21:27
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 21:27
There. 

Wendy Beck 21:28
Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 21:28
To have a conversation. 

Wendy Beck 21:29
That's 

Ralph Watkins 21:29
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 21:29
a level of trust, too. They now they trust you. You've been in 

Ralph Watkins 21:32
Well, 

Wendy Beck 21:32
the. 

Ralph Watkins 21:32
you're showing up. 

Wendy Beck 21:34
Yeah. Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 21:35
It's one thing to call somebody. How you doing? But it's another thing to be there 

Rich Bennett 21:40
Yeah. 

Ralph Watkins 21:40
and just show up when they need. 

Wendy Beck 21:41
Yeah, and I've seen that on the addiction side 

Leann Roderick 21:43
Absolutely. 

Wendy Beck 21:43
where, you know, and the intervention type of 

Leann Roderick 21:46
Mm hmm. 

Wendy Beck 21:46
situation. 

Leann Roderick 21:48
And another thing that I've you know, to kind of expand on that that I've seen with PRP is, you know, sometimes they need that extra handhold to. 

Rich Bennett 21:56
Mm hmm. 

Leann Roderick 21:56
Where in? 

Ralph Watkins 21:58
Like you can be 

Leann Roderick 21:59
An 

Ralph Watkins 21:59
a 

Leann Roderick 21:59
appointment. 

Ralph Watkins 22:00
person. 

Leann Roderick 22:00
Well, like I said, whether it's telehealth or in person with a therapist or a psychiatrist, where it's like, hey, you know, I think you would qualify for this thing with the SS or you would really benefit from going to this food pantry and blah, blah, blah or PR, you can have that more hands holding hands on approach of like, we are going to go to this. 

Rich Bennett 22:22
Right. 

Wendy Beck 22:23
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 22:23
Collaborative. 

Leann Roderick 22:25
So that I can, one, hold you accountable to actually take this action and to then that person is also building up the confidence to do those things and make those strides with the assistance of somebody that has the time to do it with them. 

Wendy Beck 22:40
Right. 

Rich Bennett 22:40
How often do you. Let's say with one client how a 

Ralph Watkins 22:45
Often do you actually go and see them 

Rich Bennett 22:47
person 

Ralph Watkins 22:47
in person? 

Rich Bennett 22:48
or. 

Situation. 

Ashia Herndon 22:50
So at a minimum, for adults, we see them six times a month. 

Wendy Beck 22:54
That's a lot. 

Rich Bennett 22:55
That's good. 

Ralph Watkins 22:56
But if a client's in a crisis, we're going to be seeing them a lot more. 

Rich Bennett 22:59
Right? Yes. 

Ashia Herndon 23:00
Six is definitely a minimum. 

Rich Bennett 23:02
Okay. 

Wendy Beck 23:03
And what is and what is your role? Are you. 

Ashia Herndon 23:05
Pip councillor. 

Wendy Beck 23:06
Okay. And you're. You are. 

Ralph Watkins 23:09
Specialist. 

Wendy Beck 23:10
Specialist. What's what's the difference? 

Ralph Watkins 23:11
So my. I'm sorry. My mom. 

Wendy Beck 23:16
All right. 

Ralph Watkins 23:16
My official designation is. Certified psychiatric rehabilitation practitioner. 

Wendy Beck 23:22
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 23:22
And then I'm also a child and family resiliency practitioner. 

Wendy Beck 23:26
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 23:27
So I'm basically can work with families, but work with families and kids are adult supervised. 

Wendy Beck 23:33
Okay. And then you're more of the hands on. Yes. 

Ashia Herndon 23:37
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 23:38
Okay. So you're going into the house 

Rich Bennett 23:39
I 

Wendy Beck 23:39
and. 

Rich Bennett 23:39
just love the way she explained that Ralph's my boss. I. 

Leann Roderick 23:45
Short answer. 

Wendy Beck 23:45
Yeah, right. 

Leann Roderick 23:47
Can hold. 

Ralph Watkins 23:48
I hate boss. I hate that. 

Leann Roderick 23:50
So. 

Ashia Herndon 23:51
Is a good one, though. 

Leann Roderick 23:52
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 23:53
Never say that. You know what is spelled backwards. 

Leann Roderick 23:55
Yeah. 

But yes, around and along the case load as well. So if we have a specific like a really difficult case, Ralph might hang on to that himself. Or, you know, we have a large service area, so we have clients. So specifically, this team here is the Harford County team. But we have clients in parts of Cecil County. We have we could have clients, you know, essentially, Ralph sees the clients kind of more in the Cecil County capacity, too. Right. And if that would fall on. 

Ralph Watkins 24:33
Yeah, that would be. That would be me. 

Leann Roderick 24:35
Because of. 

Wendy Beck 24:36
So you two are the the Harford County team. There is no one else. 

Leann Roderick 24:41
So if we were to build up a big enough prep caseload, we 

Wendy Beck 24:44
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 24:44
would absolutely 

Wendy Beck 24:45
Ed, 

Leann Roderick 24:46
add. 

Wendy Beck 24:46
okay. Yes. Yes. 

Leann Roderick 24:47
So right now, this is what we have to handle all the clients that we have. But obviously we have the capacity to continue to grow. 

Rich Bennett 24:58
Hopefully you won't have to. 

Leann Roderick 24:59
Right. 

Wendy Beck 25:01
I think I don't think it's going to shrink. 

Rich Bennett 25:03
No, it's. 

Leann Roderick 25:03
No. 

Wendy Beck 25:04
I think we need to expand and then hopefully we'll shrink. But. 

Leann Roderick 25:07
What? 

Ralph Watkins 25:08
And there's time periods during the year. I mean, you know, it's you can look at, you know, graphs and there's time periods during the year where your your admissions go up 

Wendy Beck 25:17
Like. Like 

Ralph Watkins 25:18
now. 

Wendy Beck 25:18
now Winter. 

Ralph Watkins 25:18
now. 

Wendy Beck 25:19
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 25:19
Oh, yeah. Season's over. 

Leann Roderick 25:20
Yeah. So honestly, I see a dead zone right before the holidays. Nobody wants to seek treatment until 

Rich Bennett 25:25
Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 25:26
right after Christmas. And then, like, January was so part of my job is to track referrals. January was probably the most referrals I've gotten since I started working at Marilyn Wallace. 

Ralph Watkins 25:37
And that's that falls right into it's after Christmas. 

Leann Roderick 25:40
Right. But. 

Wendy Beck 25:41
I mean, I mean, even even for those of us who don't struggle with mental health issues, this is a we don't go outside. It gets dark early. And, you know, you kind of like fall into this rut. So I can't even imagine how 

Leann Roderick 25:54
Because 

Wendy Beck 25:54
in a. 

Leann Roderick 25:54
we're stuck inside and we're isolated from other people. 

Wendy Beck 25:57
Yes. Yeah. And then the more you isolate, the more you want to isolate. 

Ralph Watkins 26:00
Right. 

Rich Bennett 26:01
So are you guys actually busier then, especially around the holidays? I've been talking to the client. 

Ralph Watkins 26:06
You have now. 

Rich Bennett 26:07
Or is it that they're the ones that really are putting everything on hold? 

Ralph Watkins 26:13
I mean. 

Rich Bennett 26:13
I would think that's a very critical time. 

Ralph Watkins 26:17
If you know during and you tell me what you think during Christmas and you know January, it's a struggle, you know. 

Rich Bennett 26:24
Yeah. 

Ralph Watkins 26:24
Clients have you know, things for holidays and and PRP should never be a burden. If PRP is a burden, then you don't need to be in it. If it's a burden, then we're doing our job. 

Rich Bennett 26:35
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 26:36
I mean, we need to work with you to to deliver services in a way that you want them 

Wendy Beck 26:40
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 26:40
to be delivered. 

Wendy Beck 26:41
Is there are there any anyone. Is there any referred 

Ralph Watkins 26:45
Referred to by 

Wendy Beck 26:47
outside 

Ralph Watkins 26:47
outside sources 

Wendy Beck 26:47
of. 

Ralph Watkins 26:48
that make it. 

Wendy Beck 26:48
Notary, such as a drug court. So. 

Leann Roderick 26:51
Yes. So I am actually on the panel for the. 

Circuit drug court in Harford County. 

Wendy Beck 26:58
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 26:59
Now, I will make this statement that PRP is not a suit. Like, you guys didn't know what it was before you guys came here today. And 

Wendy Beck 27:05
Right. 

Leann Roderick 27:05
so most of you don't aren't super familiar with PRP. And so a lot of my referrals for mental health come in the form of therapy and psychiatry, which we also provide. And so once somebody is in services with us, we can evaluate and say, you know, this person has this diagnosis and we really think they would benefit from also being enrolled in PRP. 

Rich Bennett 27:30
But. 

Leann Roderick 27:31
And so, yes, there are some courts that we work with, but a lot of them, the mandatory portion is therapy or psychiatry. And then we can recommend PRP from there. 

Ralph Watkins 27:42
And a lot of the guidance I had got from probation officers in the court orders was, you know, client will participate in all recommended mental health treatment. 

Wendy Beck 27:49
Gotcha. What about eating disorders? Do you guys handle that at all? I'm just curious because, you know, I don't know. 

Leann Roderick 27:55
Mm hmm. 

Wendy Beck 27:55
Scope of your. 

Leann Roderick 27:56
Yeah. We don't specifically touch eating disorders within Marilyn Wellness. We do have so because of the positivity of the virtual side of things is we don't have a waiting list for therapy right now, which is. Unheard of in the state of Maryland. 

Ralph Watkins 28:15
No waiting list. 

Leann Roderick 28:16
No waiting list. But that's because we can sign somebody up for a virtual session with a provider in Cumberland or. 

Rich Bennett 28:25
Right. 

Wendy Beck 28:25
As long as. As long as. 

Ralph Watkins 28:27
With the student. 

Leann Roderick 28:28
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 28:29
I gotcha. 

Leann Roderick 28:29
Yeah. Or they're licensed within the state of Maryland. 

Rich Bennett 28:31
There. 

Leann Roderick 28:31
So technically someone could be licensed in Maryland, but live in north. 

Rich Bennett 28:35
Pennsylvania. Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 28:37
But they have to be licensed within 

Wendy Beck 28:38
Gotcha. 

Leann Roderick 28:38
the state of Maryland. 

Wendy Beck 28:39
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 28:41
And so the reason I say that is because we have so many different providers seeing people all over the state, they have different specialties or different things. They have a lot of experience. And so, you know, I get asked a lot. Do we have anybody that specializes in OCD and not necessarily, but we do have a handful of providers that have extensive experience. Working with people with OCD. 

Wendy Beck 29:06
Gotcha. 

Leann Roderick 29:06
And so they may not be in Harford County, but they would work with that provider wherever they are in the state. And then if we feel they're also therapeutically appropriate for PRP, we can link those two together. So we have the mental health, the clinician and then the hands on. 

Ralph Watkins 29:24
And when you're in PRP, you know that eating disorder may not have come up until the PRP worker starts. 

Leann Roderick 29:31
Right. 

Rich Bennett 29:32
Right. 

Wendy Beck 29:32
Assessment. 

Ralph Watkins 29:32
It's working. And then that's where PRP is going to, you know, collaborate with the therapist about what's going on and find the client or program. 

Leann Roderick 29:42
Well in the same could apply for substance abuse. We don't technically treat any substance abuse 

Rich Bennett 29:46
Mm 

Leann Roderick 29:46
or. 

Rich Bennett 29:46
hmm. 

Leann Roderick 29:47
But we work with several. 

Rich Bennett 29:48
Others. 

Leann Roderick 29:49
Programs. 

Wendy Beck 29:50
So if you discover that this has happened. 

Leann Roderick 29:52
What happened what 

Ralph Watkins 29:52
What? 

Leann Roderick 29:53
two 

Wendy Beck 29:53
Then 

Leann Roderick 29:53
weeks 

Wendy Beck 29:53
you 

Leann Roderick 29:53
ago 

Wendy Beck 29:53
have. 

Leann Roderick 29:53
to here 

Ralph Watkins 29:54
Two weeks 

Leann Roderick 29:54
we. 

Ralph Watkins 29:54
ago. Yeah. Yeah. We're always set. And we have. 

Leann Roderick 29:57
Yeah. We sent a client to Saudi treatment two weeks ago because they identified it as a need. 

Wendy Beck 30:04
Right. Okay. 

Leann Roderick 30:05
Mm hmm. 

Wendy Beck 30:05
Well. 

Ashia Herndon 30:06
The importance of like really getting in there with the clients, building that rapport because. 

Rich Bennett 30:09
Mm hmm. 

Ashia Herndon 30:10
Realize 

Ralph Watkins 30:10
Allies 

Ashia Herndon 30:11
the effects 

Ralph Watkins 30:12
of 

Ashia Herndon 30:12
of 

Ralph Watkins 30:12
the. 

Ashia Herndon 30:12
their mental health until were and fox 

Ralph Watkins 30:14
Find them face to face 

Ashia Herndon 30:16
and 

Ralph Watkins 30:16
and, 

Ashia Herndon 30:16
you. 

Ralph Watkins 30:16
you know, seeing some. 

Ashia Herndon 30:17
Some of their behaviors. 

Leann Roderick 30:18
Or even the differences between mental health and some of I mean, they're all under the general umbrella. 

Rich Bennett 30:23
Right. 

Leann Roderick 30:24
Mental health. But, you know, we're talking about different providers that treat different aspects of it. Right. And so I know when 

Wendy Beck 30:32
When I. 

Leann Roderick 30:32
I worked in substance abuse, there would be things that were clearly in my eyes like, this is an associate. 

Ralph Watkins 30:36
Substance abuse is. 

Leann Roderick 30:37
Issue, whatever we're dealing with right now. But to convince them, like, hey, we need you to see a different provider, because the providers that we have aren't meeting the needs of your symptoms, right? Trying to explain to somebody the difference between a drug and alcohol counselor and a therapist sometimes is like pulling teeth. And so the same could be said to have somebody with that emotional currency as they talk about to be like, hey, you know, I know you have this diagnosis, but I'm also seeing this problem that you and I aren't addressing to. 

Rich Bennett 31:09
Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 31:10
And I think that we need to add another provider to this mix for you to get the care you need. 

Wendy Beck 31:15
And are are the patients or clients? I don't know what you call them. Are they receptive to this? And. 

Ralph Watkins 31:21
For the most part. 

Wendy Beck 31:21
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 31:23
For the most part, any. 

Wendy Beck 31:23
Because I just know in the addiction world, when you're trying to like, you know, get someone help, they're usually kicking and screaming. But you know what I mean now. 

Leann Roderick 31:31
think a lot of times that. 

Wendy Beck 31:33
In the mental health world, too, though. 

Leann Roderick 31:35
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 31:35
I 

Leann Roderick 31:35
And. 

Wendy Beck 31:35
mean, honestly. 

Leann Roderick 31:37
Getting someone in the door. And we do run into that. I had some referrals recently from to come in from Franklin Square and they were explained like, Hey, we think you need X, Y, Z treatment. And when I talked to them, they were like, Oh, well, I found housing through the substance abuse program, so I don't really need you guys anymore. I said, 

Wendy Beck 32:02
Right. 

Leann Roderick 32:02
But you were referred for mental health help. 

Wendy Beck 32:04
Right. 

Leann Roderick 32:04
They were like, Well, I'm not interested in. 

Wendy Beck 32:06
And you can't make someone. 

Leann Roderick 32:07
Yeah. Make some. 

Wendy Beck 32:09
That's the unfortunate. 

Ralph Watkins 32:10
PRP does is it works on entitlements. It helps a client, you know, we help clients navigate the entitlements. If you have a client who you've. 

Leann Roderick 32:20
I'm on an entitlement. 

Ralph Watkins 32:21
An entitlement would be like tap or snap or. 

Wendy Beck 32:26
Okay. Which is the the food and what's tied up. I know that 

Ralph Watkins 32:31
Tabs. 

Wendy Beck 32:31
snap 

Ralph Watkins 32:31
Temporary 

Wendy Beck 32:32
is. 

Ralph Watkins 32:32
disability. 

Wendy Beck 32:33
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 32:33
Financial. 

Wendy Beck 32:33
Okay. I gotcha. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 32:36
You're listening in on the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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Ralph Watkins 33:56
So, you know, if you have a client who 

who is exhibiting some pretty strong, you know, symptoms of mental illness and can't work, we can advocate for the client with social services to get teed up. 

Wendy Beck 34:11
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 34:11
Which is like a payment every two weeks. Just. It's not a lot, but it's something to help. 

Rich Bennett 34:18
Right. 

Wendy Beck 34:19
You know 

Ralph Watkins 34:20
In the past, PRP always was 

Wendy Beck 34:22
what? 

Ralph Watkins 34:22
about, you know, one of the things we could do was help clients with that issue. 

Wendy Beck 34:28
Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, I remember one of the first, you know, times we really experienced that we had someone in in our house that had mental health issues and they actually had nowhere to go. And we had to work really, really, really hard. And it took months to get them out. Housing because. We didn't want them to just not have a roof over their head. But there wasn't very many options. And I don't know. I don't think it's gotten better. And now with the Affordable. 

Ralph Watkins 34:58
Housing shortage 

Wendy Beck 34:59
Within our county is one 

Ralph Watkins 35:01
as 

Wendy Beck 35:01
issue. Are you seeing that as well? 

Ralph Watkins 35:03
well. 

Wendy Beck 35:03
Like and what do you do when someone you can't house someone or 

Ralph Watkins 35:06
You 

Wendy Beck 35:06
help? 

Ralph Watkins 35:06
be honest with them. 

Wendy Beck 35:08
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 35:09
And you tell them, you know, this is going to be a struggle. But, you know, it's important to 

if you're if you're struggling, you know, we are a mental health provider that works on entitlements. And yes, we have to work on housing, but we also have to work on what's going on with your poor symptoms and. Got you there. We're going to do we're going to work on, you know. 

Wendy Beck 35:31
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 35:32
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 35:32
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 35:33
I mean, we can sit here and try to cure. We can cure. The disease are the symptoms, but we're really not addressing the disease that caused. 

Rich Bennett 35:40
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 35:42
So. 

Rich Bennett 35:42
So come back in any time. 

Ralph Watkins 35:44
Right. And the thing that you want to do with your clients is and we had a discussion about this, you. You want to work out a plan with your client that keeps that makes them makes them feel like they're making progress 

Rich Bennett 35:57
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 35:58
and they're moving forward. Even if you're not seeing the results you want right away. But if you still feel like you're moving forward. 

Wendy Beck 36:05
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 36:05
You've still got the energy to keep going. 

Wendy Beck 36:07
Yes. 

Leann Roderick 36:09
Right. I mean, and housing is it's an issue. 

Wendy Beck 36:12
Yeah, it is. 

Leann Roderick 36:13
So a lot of these people were not even necessarily looking for mental health housing. We're looking for housing in general. 

Wendy Beck 36:22
In general. 

Rich Bennett 36:22
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 36:23
Something. 

Leann Roderick 36:24
Hair issues. You know, the waiting list for housing through HUD is like eight years long. There is no funding anymore. post-COVID, there was a lot of funding during like 20, 20, 20, 21, 2022 to like, keep for rental assistance and keeping people in their homes. That funding doesn't exist anymore. And so, like Ralph said, it's about being. There are people that will get referred prep or self-refer to Prep because they think that we're going to 

Wendy Beck 36:57
To be able to 

Leann Roderick 36:57
find. 

Wendy Beck 36:57
expedite that housing situation. Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 37:00
And that's where Ralph says, like the honesty piece of like, Hey, I don't know how much we're going to be able to help, but we can help you address, like you said, the behaviors that got us to this. 

Wendy Beck 37:11
Right. 

Rich Bennett 37:12
And if you're honest 

Ralph Watkins 37:13
Honest. 

Rich Bennett 37:13
with them, they they feel that. And I would think that in turn, they're going to be honest with you. 

Leann Roderick 37:19
Yes, but sometimes that honesty as well. I just self-refer because I want to help with this. And 

Rich Bennett 37:24
Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 37:24
so I no longer want to participate in this program. And we you know, like we said, we can't force an. 

Ralph Watkins 37:30
Well, I know I've been honest with the clients and said this how you know, we're struggling right now because and and I've had clients fire me. You know, for not being able to achieve that. And I totally get it. I mean. 

Wendy Beck 37:45
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 37:45
This is a voluntary program. The only expectation is you, you know, be in therapy at least once a month to work with PRP. 

Leann Roderick 37:53
Yes. So 

Ralph Watkins 37:54
There 

Leann Roderick 37:54
there are 

Ralph Watkins 37:54
are some. 

Leann Roderick 37:54
certain. So Poppy. 

Ralph Watkins 37:55
Is. 

Leann Roderick 37:56
Insurance funded or program. So that's exciting. But it's specifically through Medicaid. And so, yeah, so in order to get Medicaid authorization to pay for prep, a client has to be engaged in therapy services at least once a month. And that can be with us, that can be with someone else. If somebody has a therapist they absolutely love and they are just looking for prep services, great. We can do that too. If somebody is like, I haven't been in mental health treatment for ten years, I have no idea where to even start. Awesome. We can also provide that there. 

Rich Bennett 38:33
Right. 

Leann Roderick 38:36
Psychiatry is not necessary with therapy. However, a lot of times with these more severe diagnoses, people are on medication. Same can be said. They can be through someone else. It could be through us. So we have the ability to. 

Rich Bennett 38:51
Oh. 

Wendy Beck 38:52
So you are full service then? 

Leann Roderick 38:53
Yes, 

Wendy Beck 38:54
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 38:54
we have the ability to do all three, but we do not require a client to be engaged. We have clients. They don't like to hear this part. 

Wendy Beck 39:03
Here's everybody. 

Leann Roderick 39:04
I have clients that just get referred to me from other papers that I link. 

Ralph Watkins 39:10
Got a real problem with that. 

Leann Roderick 39:11
Yeah. 

That they just want to use us for therapy so that we can. 

Ralph Watkins 39:18
There. 

Leann Roderick 39:18
Their authorizations back. And so we are welcome to work with other organizations to kind of figure out what's best for that client. 

Rich Bennett 39:27
Right. 

Leann Roderick 39:28
We do X, so we accept Medicaid for all three services. We do accept UnitedHealthcare, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Cigna and Aetna for Therapy and Psychiatry. 

Rich Bennett 39:39
What about veterans benefits? 

Leann Roderick 39:41
So we don't have we aren't in network with TRICARE at this time. I do believe that we are trying. 

Rich Bennett 39:47
Right. 

Leann Roderick 39:48
They're a little bit more difficult to work. 

Rich Bennett 39:50
Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 39:53
But it is on our list of priorities. I believe it's actually the next group of people we are trying to. 

Wendy Beck 40:00
Is this is a probably I don't know if this is even part of the topic, but do you have to reapply for Medicaid every year? If you are if you have Medicaid, do you have to reapply? Or is it. Or is it continuous? 

Ralph Watkins 40:13
So during COVID, it was just a general. You sign up, you got in. 

Wendy Beck 40:18
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 40:18
And then what we started seeing was about two years ago I started getting clients who were getting notices in the mail. And you remember those days and the Medicaid was evaluating everybody. And I lost a lot. 

Wendy Beck 40:32
I feel like that would be overwhelming, too. You got people who aren't even opening their mail and now all of a sudden they don't have, you know. 

Rich Bennett 40:40
Coverage. 

Ralph Watkins 40:40
And that's. 

Rich Bennett 40:40
Yeah. 

Ralph Watkins 40:41
And that's one of the things PR he can help with. It's one thing to sit there and tell a client, Hey, you need to call social services. Your insurance hasn't come on. 

Wendy Beck 40:52
They're not going to. 

Ralph Watkins 40:53
I mean, if you're struggling with somebody who has. No. 

Wendy Beck 40:55
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 40:56
Focus. That's where PR is going to go. Pick the client up. You're going to go to social services and work it out. 

Rich Bennett 41:02
Mm hmm. 

Ralph Watkins 41:03
And it gets done. 

Leann Roderick 41:05
Absolutely. And, you know, the only reason. 

Private insurance is repair payments because a private insurances do not recognise BRP as a service they will pay. 

Ralph Watkins 41:19
And it's. 

Wendy Beck 41:19
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 41:22
There's a housing component that. Paid by insurance that the privates also do not. 

Wendy Beck 41:27
Right. Yeah. And that's I think that's a failing to be on a. 

Leann Roderick 41:32
Yes, 100%. And it's to say, you know. 

Ralph Watkins 41:36
So 

Leann Roderick 41:36
So let's say one of the things we work on in prepping 

Ralph Watkins 41:39
looks 

Leann Roderick 41:39
is 

Ralph Watkins 41:39
like. 

Leann Roderick 41:39
helping somebody find and maintain employment and what that looks like and the pieces to that. You know, the all the behaviors that go along with that, like, hey, you have to take care of your hygiene and you have to be able to socialize. Why do you why do you get aggressive with bosses when they say things you don't? 

Ralph Watkins 41:55
It's a big one. 

Leann Roderick 41:56
These kinds of different 

Wendy Beck 41:57
Right. 

Leann Roderick 41:57
behaviors. Right. But let's say some, we do help somebody on that front and they get a job that pays well enough that they lose Medicaid. 

Wendy Beck 42:05
Right. 

Leann Roderick 42:07
Now we can't treat them. 

Rich Bennett 42:09
Right. 

Wendy Beck 42:09
Continue to. 

Ralph Watkins 42:10
And this and it's it's maddening to me. I got an email about it today where a client said, Well, I got a job. I don't think that I need services anymore. That's the exact time when you need service. 

Leann Roderick 42:21
Right. Let's watch these. 

Wendy Beck 42:22
Your stress level, your. Yeah. And your stress levels going up. 

Ralph Watkins 42:26
Right. 

Wendy Beck 42:26
You're going to have more emotions. 

Ralph Watkins 42:27
You have to get up on time now before you do it. And you have to go to work. You have to show up. You have to. 

Leann Roderick 42:32
Are you eating while you're there? Did you. 

Rich Bennett 42:33
Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 42:34
How are you making that happen? Like, there's so many components of it. 

Rich Bennett 42:38
Now 

Wendy Beck 42:38
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 42:38
that you're making money, how are you budgeting? 

Leann Roderick 42:41
Yes. 

Ralph Watkins 42:41
I mean, self-care. I mean, 

Rich Bennett 42:43
Yeah. 

Ralph Watkins 42:43
just. 

Rich Bennett 42:43
Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 42:44
And unfortunately, if somebody is successful in being there, they will lose that. 

Ralph Watkins 42:49
That service. 

Rich Bennett 42:50
Right. 

Leann Roderick 42:51
Because 

Wendy Beck 42:51
Right. 

Leann Roderick 42:51
of the. 

Wendy Beck 42:52
Wow. I don't know. That's. I don't even know how you can like. How we can figure all this out. To be honest, a change. 

Leann Roderick 42:59
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 43:00
What do you do to change? Change it for. Client. So they have that like. Just not really an option right now. 

Leann Roderick 43:07
Right. 

Rich Bennett 43:09
I have two questions for all of you. And more starfish. 

First question is how long have you been 

Ralph Watkins 43:19
In the 

Rich Bennett 43:19
able. 

Ralph Watkins 43:19
field and why 

you? I started off and 

Ashia Herndon 43:26
The field. 

Ralph Watkins 43:26
I 

Ashia Herndon 43:26
Actually, Dawn Colvin and I was working at a facility and I was. Small case load, but 

Ralph Watkins 43:34
There's 

Ashia Herndon 43:34
I 

Ralph Watkins 43:34
not 

Ashia Herndon 43:34
was 

Ralph Watkins 43:34
a 

Ashia Herndon 43:34
doing a lot of the admin work. And I saw 

Ralph Watkins 43:37
I 

Ashia Herndon 43:37
like. 

Ralph Watkins 43:37
like the work that. 

Ashia Herndon 43:38
The people were passing them and it just one. So for me, 

Ralph Watkins 43:42
The 

Ashia Herndon 43:42
Bitcoin. 

Ralph Watkins 43:42
big connection was. 

Ashia Herndon 43:44
The. 

Ralph Watkins 43:45
Disconnect and service. 

Ashia Herndon 43:47
For an. 

Ralph Watkins 43:47
Underserved communities. 

Ashia Herndon 43:48
Be 

Ralph Watkins 43:49
want a time where they needed 

Ashia Herndon 43:50
that at 

Ralph Watkins 43:50
it the 

Ashia Herndon 43:50
the. 

Ralph Watkins 43:51
most. 

Rich Bennett 43:51
Right. 

Ashia Herndon 43:52
So that's what kept me going. Just really being in there, seeing the clients. And when 

Ralph Watkins 43:58
When 

Ashia Herndon 43:58
I 

Ralph Watkins 43:58
I. 

Ashia Herndon 43:58
first talked to Ralph, he. 

Ralph Watkins 44:00
He told me how big. 

Ashia Herndon 44:00
Big. The company was, you 

Ralph Watkins 44:01
You 

Ashia Herndon 44:01
know. 

Ralph Watkins 44:01
know, just in making sure that we are seeing the people not just on telehealth. 

Rich Bennett 44:05
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 44:06
That's how I believe the best services. 

Ashia Herndon 44:08
I rendered. So 

Ralph Watkins 44:09
So 

Ashia Herndon 44:09
that 

Ralph Watkins 44:09
that 

Ashia Herndon 44:10
that 

Ralph Watkins 44:10
that was 

Ashia Herndon 44:10
was for 

Ralph Watkins 44:10
for me. 

Ashia Herndon 44:10
me that the bitconnect. 

Wendy Beck 44:11
Yeah, I like that. 

Ralph Watkins 44:14
I've been in mental health 30 years. 1992. 

Rich Bennett 44:18
So you started when you were ten. 

Ralph Watkins 44:21
Starting when I was. You 

inpatient. I started out doing inpatient in a in a in Virginia they have temporary detention orders. And it was a lot. Where they were. They brought people who had been treated so. A temporary 

Wendy Beck 44:41
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 44:42
detention order for know a psychiatric condition. And it and you know, you. I got addicted to the to the crisis and, you know, working, you know, trying to help people. And 

Rich Bennett 44:56
That's a good addiction to have. 

Ralph Watkins 44:57
a good addiction. 

Rich Bennett 44:58
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 44:58
You can get burnt out, though. 

Ralph Watkins 45:00
You can get burned out. 

Wendy Beck 45:00
Yeah. 

Ralph Watkins 45:01
Well, I did get burned out, so I. I was lucky enough to get into the Department of Mental Health in Virginia and worked at, like, a teaching hospital. 

Rich Bennett 45:10
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 45:11
So I was able to move up that way. I took a five year break and did criminal justice casework for juveniles. Violent teen offenders in. 

Wendy Beck 45:20
Wow. 

Ralph Watkins 45:21
And that made me want to go back to mental health as quick as possible. 

Wendy Beck 45:25
I would imagine that has something to do. Health as well. 

Ralph Watkins 45:30
But I mean, all in all, I prep works, and when it's done right, it works. And. And I love my job. Do 

Wendy Beck 45:37
And 

Ralph Watkins 45:37
your 

Wendy Beck 45:37
what 

Ralph Watkins 45:37
job. 

Wendy Beck 45:37
are your credentials? You know, if I can ask, like, what? What do you need to do your job? Like what? I mean, is it a B.A.? Is it a certification? Is it. 

Ashia Herndon 45:47
So we. 

Ralph Watkins 45:48
We don't have to have any 

Ashia Herndon 45:50
Credentials 

Ralph Watkins 45:50
shows. 

Ashia Herndon 45:51
for my position. 

Wendy Beck 45:53
Okay. Just. 

Ashia Herndon 45:54
Just, I believe. 

Ralph Watkins 45:55
Leave one year of experience when you're when you have experience. But also counselors are doing. Every two weeks supervision with the rehab specialist going over treatment, going over recommendations, you know, So everything is steered and focused. 

Wendy Beck 46:13
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 46:14
They are trained. During 

Ralph Watkins 46:16
He says. 

Leann Roderick 46:16
their intake period and early on in their jobs with us to do all of the assessments, all of those pieces for the prep part as well. So, 

Rich Bennett 46:28
You got to answer yet? You 

Leann Roderick 46:29
yes, 

Rich Bennett 46:29
didn't answer 

Leann Roderick 46:30
I'm 

Rich Bennett 46:30
my 

Leann Roderick 46:30
sorry. 

Rich Bennett 46:30
question. I know you did. 

Wendy Beck 46:33
Guys. 

Rich Bennett 46:34
Say anything when. 

Wendy Beck 46:35
I'm sorry. 

Leann Roderick 46:36
So I guess mental health. I've only been specifically in this field for two years, but as I stated, I. 

Ralph Watkins 46:42
It wasn't. 

Leann Roderick 46:43
I've been working with substance abuse and mental health for eight years. I'm a person in long term recovery, which is how I got into the substance abuse world. And then as I stated, I you know, a couple of years ago, it was a time for me to kind of grow in my career and advance. And I didn't really know what direction I wanted to go in. I was very open minded. I went from like applying to like labor jobs to all over the place. And like I said, I saw an ad for Maryland Wellness in Hartford County. And I was like, I don't even know what that is. But I applied for it and I learned I didn't know what Prep was when I applied. 

Rich Bennett 47:23
Wow. 

Leann Roderick 47:24
I knew that I worked with people and there was not enough mental health treatment in Hartford County. And that's what I. 

Rich Bennett 47:31
Right. 

Leann Roderick 47:32
And so it was really a great opportunity to bring, like I said, a whole nother realm. 

Rich Bennett 47:38
Right? 

Leann Roderick 47:40
Services to the area. There are other providers in the area and I still didn't know 

Rich Bennett 47:45
Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 47:46
what it was. And so I think one of the things I'm really passionate about in the mental health front is making sure our community knows one who Marilyn Wellness is and what we provide. 

Rich Bennett 47:58
Actually. What's the website? 

Leann Roderick 48:00
It's M.D. Wellness, Dawg. Super easy, but so much like we, I try to make it a point to go to community events. I, we, I beg our company to sponsor where we can. We'll 

Wendy Beck 48:15
No. 

Leann Roderick 48:15
be at the 

Wendy Beck 48:16
Yeah, 

Leann Roderick 48:16
rage 

Wendy Beck 48:16
it was. 

Leann Roderick 48:16
walk 

Wendy Beck 48:17
Oh, thank 

Leann Roderick 48:17
we 

Wendy Beck 48:17
you. 

Leann Roderick 48:17
have. 

Wendy Beck 48:18
Also, there is an event coming up. 

Leann Roderick 48:20
Yes. So we hosted an event last June called Bayside Family Wellness. It was in HAVERTY Grace. It was awesome. We partnered with Rage Against Addiction and we partnered with the Clubhouse by Ashlee. A couple other 

chrysanthemums was brand new. They also participated in that event. We had some great vendors from the sheriff's department and Harford County crisis response to come out. And so this year we are planning that event again. We have had we were asked by Harvard County Office of Drug Control Policy if they can help and support with that this year, too. So that's really awesome. We're going to hopefully get a further reach with that information. It's completely free. We'll have like a bounce house and some activities for the kids and a lot of resources. 

Wendy Beck 49:13
Now, I didn't get a chance to go last year. But you have vendors. 

Rich Bennett 49:15
Outhouse. 

Wendy Beck 49:16
Yeah, well. 

So you have vendors such as. 

Leann Roderick 49:23
So there are resource tables for people to get more information on various wellness topics. So, you know, if somebody is a substance. 

Ralph Watkins 49:31
Sorry. 

Leann Roderick 49:31
Course, we want to have tables out there for that mental health resources. Obviously, this year we think we're going to invite the YMCA, the We Rock the spectrum, my gym, the. These are some people that we've thought about asking to join us because we want there to be a variety of resources. Like I said, however, crisis response was there. Last year, the sheriff's department nature works. 

Wendy Beck 49:58
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 49:59
And we're open minded to people that want to participate. 

Rich Bennett 50:03
Just good. You have to be. 

Leann Roderick 50:04
Yeah, we will. If you want to participate, we want to make sure that the community knows you're out there. And like I said, it's a completely free event for the community. And so we're really priority sizing. You know, like I said, what I'm passionate about, which is making sure people know that there is mental health help. US community. 

Wendy Beck 50:22
Mm. 

Leann Roderick 50:23
I just I don't know that everybody knows that. 

Rich Bennett 50:26
They don't. 

Leann Roderick 50:27
So. 

Rich Bennett 50:27
They don't know. I only have one more question for you, and then I'll shut up. 

You don't have to 

Ralph Watkins 50:34
To 

Rich Bennett 50:34
use 

Ralph Watkins 50:34
use name. 

Rich Bennett 50:34
names, but can each of you share a feel good story? The listeners about a client that you've helped out. 

Ashia Herndon 50:42
Oh, yes. 

Ralph Watkins 50:44
So I've 

Ashia Herndon 50:44
I've had 

Ralph Watkins 50:44
had. 

Ashia Herndon 50:44
a client and I would say this was towards the end of. 

Ralph Watkins 50:52
Well, let me share a more recent success story. 

Rich Bennett 50:54
Okay. 

Ashia Herndon 50:56
I have a client. 

Rich Bennett 50:56
Ralph's like, Don't take mine. 

Wendy Beck 51:01
Well, look how she lit up. 

Ashia Herndon 51:03
I have. I've had a client who she didn't really understand the rest 

Ralph Watkins 51:10
Some 

Ashia Herndon 51:11
of 

Ralph Watkins 51:11
of 

Ashia Herndon 51:11
her 

Ralph Watkins 51:11
her 

Ashia Herndon 51:11
problem. 

Ralph Watkins 51:11
problems. 

Rich Bennett 51:12
Mm hmm. 

Ashia Herndon 51:13
But just building that consistent rapport with this client, just like Ralph said, gave me. 

Ralph Watkins 51:19
Level of emotion. 

Ashia Herndon 51:20
National currency where I could kind of step in and say, 

Ralph Watkins 51:23
say, 

Ashia Herndon 51:23
Look 

Ralph Watkins 51:23
listen, like you said, this is what 

Ashia Herndon 51:25
what you 

Ralph Watkins 51:26
you 

Ashia Herndon 51:26
think, 

Ralph Watkins 51:26
think, 

Ashia Herndon 51:26
but 

Ralph Watkins 51:26
but 

Ashia Herndon 51:26
this 

Ralph Watkins 51:26
this 

Ashia Herndon 51:26
is 

Ralph Watkins 51:26
is 

Ashia Herndon 51:27
the 

Ralph Watkins 51:27
the 

Ashia Herndon 51:27
real. 

Ralph Watkins 51:27
reality. 

Rich Bennett 51:27
Right. 

Ashia Herndon 51:28
But having a client whom, you know, one day is just not interested anymore. Done. Delete my phone number. Don't talk to me. 

Ralph Watkins 51:37
Meaning more done with being. But. 

Ashia Herndon 51:40
But just understanding that. 

Ralph Watkins 51:44
Meeting the clients where 

Ashia Herndon 51:45
Where 

Ralph Watkins 51:45
they're 

Ashia Herndon 51:45
there 

Ralph Watkins 51:45
at. 

Ashia Herndon 51:45
are 

Ralph Watkins 51:46
These 

Ashia Herndon 51:46
these. 

Ralph Watkins 51:46
times are going to come. 

Rich Bennett 51:47
Yeah. 

Ralph Watkins 51:48
They're going to hit. They don't want to be bothered. 

Ashia Herndon 51:51
They. 

Ralph Watkins 51:52
And it's not a personal thing. 

Ashia Herndon 51:54
But being able to understand that. 

Ralph Watkins 51:55
And then give. 

Ashia Herndon 51:56
Give their client time and then to 

Ralph Watkins 51:58
So, you know, come back in just 

Ashia Herndon 51:59
just. 

Ralph Watkins 52:00
just to check on them. 

Rich Bennett 52:01
Right. 

Ashia Herndon 52:01
It's like, well, I kind of do need you know, I want to work on this, but. 

Ralph Watkins 52:06
But for me. 

Ashia Herndon 52:07
Having a client being able to write. 

Ralph Watkins 52:08
Recognize that they still need the help. 

Ashia Herndon 52:10
Even when they don't want the help. It's like a full circle moment. 

Rich Bennett 52:13
Yeah. 

Ashia Herndon 52:14
In that way. You know, the rapport is there. You are getting somewhere because now you understand that you do need the help. 

Rich Bennett 52:21
Right. 

Ashia Herndon 52:21
That's what we're here for. So for me, that was a that was a pretty proud moment. 

Ralph Watkins 52:27
So I have a client who isolates in the house. He's late twenties, never worked, and pretty much just stayed at home. It was just him and his mom and his sister and mom was like, You know, I'm worried when I'm gone. What's going to happen to 

Rich Bennett 52:47
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 52:47
him? So we put together a plan, we increased, you know, community interaction. 

I'm a big advocate of making yourself therapeutically uncomfortable. And what I mean by that is if you're if you don't want to be around large groups, let's let's chunk it. Address this issue in pieces instead of trying to eat the whole cake at one time. And, you know, we we at, you know, volunteering options. We looked at, you know, things. 

Wendy Beck 53:20
Was he willing to do? 

Ralph Watkins 53:22
He was willing. He was willing, but he was one of those kind of guys where you had to push them a little bit. 

Rich Bennett 53:27
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 53:28
For that support. Not making anybody do something they don't want to do, you know, but talk about the benefits. So he ended up getting a volunteer job at a at a nature center. 

Rich Bennett 53:42
Oh, nice. 

Ralph Watkins 53:43
And 

mom told me he's been driving himself to his volunteer job and he had a license for years and didn't drive. 

Rich Bennett 53:52
Wow. 

Ralph Watkins 53:53
So 

he's getting more out of his life. He's more fulfilled. 

Rich Bennett 54:00
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 54:01
You know, and I would clients together and go to the art museum in Delaware. Delaware art museum. And, you know, we talk about, you know, how does art express emotions? How is art a coping scale? How can you use art to tell somebody something when you can't tell them yourself? 

Rich Bennett 54:17
Mm. 

Ralph Watkins 54:18
He you know, you look at a client, you wonder, are they are they getting the message? And he was getting everything. He just wasn't sharing it with me the way that I wanted him to. But he was making progress. 

Rich Bennett 54:29
Yeah. 

Ralph Watkins 54:30
I congratulate him for it. 

Rich Bennett 54:32
Helps you. Makes you feel really good, too. Doesn't. 

Ralph Watkins 54:34
Yeah, it does, actually. 

Rich Bennett 54:36
Which is probably the biggest reward you can get. 

Ralph Watkins 54:38
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 54:39
All right. Go ahead, Liz. 

Leann Roderick 54:41
So I. So when I stepped away from my last job, I, like, intentionally wanted to step into a role that was a little less client focused. I think I'm more of an administrator than a provider personally. So my interaction with clients is generally pretty limited to when they first come into Maryland. Want us getting them set up with services. Unless Ralph needs me to argue with somebody in administration. 

Ralph Watkins 55:10
What's. 

Wendy Beck 55:10
Do we need to take that out? 

Leann Roderick 55:12
Yeah. Just kidding. 

Ralph Watkins 55:14
But. 

Leann Roderick 55:15
But 

so, you know, like I said, my priority kind of coming into this was to make sure people know that we're here, we're involved. So we're actually in the process of opening an office and having a grace as well so we can do more in-person services besides just prep and potentially group service. 

Ralph Watkins 55:32
Groups again here. 

Leann Roderick 55:35
And so that office is going to be in the big brick medical building on Lois Lane, right off Route four. 

Rich Bennett 55:43
Oh, yeah. 

Leann Roderick 55:44
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 55:44
By 

Leann Roderick 55:44
So. 

Rich Bennett 55:44
the Hun. 

Leann Roderick 55:45
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 55:46
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 55:46
Yep. And so I was just kind of going through and introducing myself to the other offices in there and there's off, there's, there's like. Gastro allergy office and physical therapy office. And these people are looking at me like a lady, and we're never going to refer to you ever. Or that's just where our lanes don't cross. 

Wendy Beck 56:05
Right. Right. 

Rich Bennett 56:07
Never say never. 

Leann Roderick 56:08
Right. And so I went into this one office and I knew it wasn't somebody that we were going to partner with long term. It just the services weren't the same. It was completely different type of medical organization. And I was like, Hey, I just want to introduce myself and let 

Ralph Watkins 56:21
You 

Leann Roderick 56:21
you know 

Ralph Watkins 56:21
know who 

Leann Roderick 56:21
who 

Ralph Watkins 56:21
we 

Leann Roderick 56:21
we are, 

Ralph Watkins 56:22
are. 

Leann Roderick 56:22
what we're doing. We're going to be in this this office over here. And the woman at the desk goes, I don't know that we will ever be able to refer to you, but I'm currently looking for a new therapy. 

Wendy Beck 56:34
Oh. 

Leann Roderick 56:34
And you just walked in here today and gave me your card 

Rich Bennett 56:37
Wow. 

Leann Roderick 56:37
and she signed up for therapy the next 

Ralph Watkins 56:38
But. 

Leann Roderick 56:39
day. Hmm. 

Rich Bennett 56:41
I'll. 

Leann Roderick 56:41
We're making a difference where we can. 

Wendy Beck 56:44
Yeah. And I think mental health services are tough. I mean, addiction services are tough as well, but. 

People don't want to talk about what's going on with them in the mental health space. 

Leann Roderick 56:56
On the courage it takes sometimes just to, like, take that first step. And so with her specifically, I think it kind of was a matter of, you know, she was still working up the courage to like either call the insurance company 

Wendy Beck 57:07
And 

Leann Roderick 57:07
and. 

Wendy Beck 57:07
there you were. 

Leann Roderick 57:08
And blah blah. 

Wendy Beck 57:08
Right. 

Rich Bennett 57:09
You were in the right place. At the 

Leann Roderick 57:10
Right? 

Rich Bennett 57:10
right. 

Wendy Beck 57:11
Well, and that's 

Leann Roderick 57:11
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 57:11
why this event is a good thing. Yeah, because 

Leann Roderick 57:14
Mm hmm. 

Wendy Beck 57:14
people, you 

Leann Roderick 57:15
Mm 

Wendy Beck 57:15
know, 

Leann Roderick 57:15
hmm. 

Wendy Beck 57:15
you're just kind of walking around and you might stumble upon something that is going to fit your need. 

Leann Roderick 57:20
Absolutely. 

Wendy Beck 57:23
I think. 

Rich Bennett 57:23
Sarah only had two questions. 

Wendy Beck 57:26
That's awesome. Do you guys have anything else you want to share with us about? 

Leann Roderick 57:29
I think that that really covers everything. We're very grateful for the opportunity to talk about our services and to. 

Rich Bennett 57:38
My stomach's talking to 

Leann Roderick 57:39
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 57:39
me. 

Leann Roderick 57:40
We started this all off with. We're hungry, So. 

Rich Bennett 57:44
I was. Wendy. 

Wendy Beck 57:44
Podcast. 

Leann Roderick 57:47
So yeah, we're just very grateful for you guys having us and allowing us to talk about the. 

Ralph Watkins 57:51
This in a. 

Leann Roderick 57:51
You know, 

a space where we can inform people more about it. I said stigma is going down at the beginning, but it's not going down fast enough. And we just really need more opportunities to talk about. 

Wendy Beck 58:05
And I also you know, I know we we probably didn't touch on this, but people don't want it's very personal. What's happening to them is so personal that it's hard to connect. 

Leann Roderick 58:17
Mm hmm. 

Wendy Beck 58:17
And also they're afraid that someone's going to judge them. And so, you know, having it more out there is is so important. But. I just don't know how to make people feel comfortable asking for help. 

Leann Roderick 58:34
Absolutely. 

Wendy Beck 58:35
Because in your one situation, you 

Ralph Watkins 58:36
You 

Wendy Beck 58:36
had, 

Ralph Watkins 58:36
had 

Wendy Beck 58:37
like, 

Ralph Watkins 58:37
like there were four or five, 

Wendy Beck 58:38
mom. 

Ralph Watkins 58:39
you know, Hey, this is. 

Wendy Beck 58:40
This seems problematic to me, and I imagine that that's not uncommon. 

Ralph Watkins 58:44
Oh, no, it's not. 

Wendy Beck 58:45
Yeah. Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 58:47
And yeah, I mean, it's willingness to I can't tell you how many moms I've had reach out to me, they have an adult child. 

Wendy Beck 58:54
Mhm. 

Leann Roderick 58:54
And then I reach out to the adult child and they're like, 

Wendy Beck 58:57
No. 

Leann Roderick 58:57
No. 

Wendy Beck 58:58
Right. 

Rich Bennett 58:58
There. 

Wendy Beck 59:01
That's not uncommon at 

Leann Roderick 59:02
Here's 

Wendy Beck 59:02
all. 

Leann Roderick 59:02
my number and call me if you change your mind. 

Rich Bennett 59:05
You got to break that barrier, too, with, I would say, especially the ones that that were still in high school doing COVID. 

Leann Roderick 59:14
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 59:14
Social. 

Leann Roderick 59:14
Or even younger. 

Rich Bennett 59:15
Activity 

Leann Roderick 59:16
Honest. 

Rich Bennett 59:16
was. Yeah. They don't. They don't want to deal with anybody in person. 

Leann Roderick 59:20
I have a teenage 

Rich Bennett 59:20
You got. 

Leann Roderick 59:20
stepson. 

Rich Bennett 59:21
There is somehow. 

Leann Roderick 59:22
I mean, you know, I'm a person in long term recovery. I recognize behaviors early, and it's not the same behaviors I had. 

Wendy Beck 59:28
Yes. 

Leann Roderick 59:28
The thing that 

Wendy Beck 59:28
Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 59:29
I was like, Hey, I feel like we should address this. And I was like, Hey, we're going to have you just, like, talk to somebody. And he's a teenager now. So he was in middle school during COVID and he was like, I don't really understand why I need to do that. 

Wendy Beck 59:44
May I ask you a question? Because this has come up before. Is it true that someone, a minor does not have to engage after the age of 12 like you can? One. Get mental health services after the. Even as a parent, you know, you think you have that window of opportunity because a lot of times you don't even that doesn't even start until they're like preteen. 

Ralph Watkins 1:00:13
But look at it this way. If you have somebody who's 13, who you feel needs to see a therapist and you. You coerce and consequence a kid 

Leann Roderick 1:00:25
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 1:00:25
to go see a therapist. What are you really achieving? 

Leann Roderick 1:00:29
Well. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:30
Yeah. 

Leann Roderick 1:00:30
Our ways and he doesn't live in this county. So we kind of went about it. But there are ways. So like essentially he sees this provider through school and so kind of the draw was like, Hey, once every couple of weeks take 45 minutes a class and go see this guy and just just talk to him. And he was like, I'd love 45 minutes out of class. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:50
Right. 

Leann Roderick 1:00:51
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:52
Well, that was easy. 

Leann Roderick 1:00:53
So. So he is seeing a 

Wendy Beck 1:00:55
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 1:00:55
therapist now. But he didn't want to. He. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:57
Right. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:57
Right. 

Leann Roderick 1:00:58
You were asking him. You know. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:00
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 1:01:01
I mean, we the most important things buy in. Everybody's kind of buy in on this are we're not going to make. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:06
How do you make someone buy in? And we can end on that because that's going to probably be. 

Ralph Watkins 1:01:10
And that. The million dollar question. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:14
Yeah. 

Ralph Watkins 1:01:15
How do you get somebody to buy in? And the best that I've seen is it is including them in the way treatment looks. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:24
Mm hmm. 

Leann Roderick 1:01:24
Well, I have a. 

Ralph Watkins 1:01:25
I think that I think that's 

Ashia Herndon 1:01:26
That's it. 

Ralph Watkins 1:01:27
where 

Ashia Herndon 1:01:27
I'm letting them be in control of where they 

Ralph Watkins 1:01:29
want 

Ashia Herndon 1:01:29
want to 

Ralph Watkins 1:01:30
to 

Ashia Herndon 1:01:30
go. 

Ralph Watkins 1:01:30
go. 

Ashia Herndon 1:01:30
So. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:30
Okay. 

Ralph Watkins 1:01:31
Letting them be. 

Ashia Herndon 1:01:32
Control of where they want to go. And while we're getting there, just educate them. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:36
Okay. 

Leann Roderick 1:01:37
And I think something I see a lot in the studio world is language is a big thing. And so allowing kind of a person in long term recovery to decide how they want to explain that. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:49
Yes. 

Leann Roderick 1:01:49
Right, because the word addict is very triggering for some people. And there's other language. And so for some people, I have a coworker and she's fantastic at this and she doesn't necessarily advertise our services and mental health services. So more advertise 

Ralph Watkins 1:02:04
Advertise them. 

Leann Roderick 1:02:05
them as like learning to live services or. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:08
Ooh. 

Leann Roderick 1:02:09
Excel. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:09
Which is awesome because I feel like there's this group. Adolescents that 

Leann Roderick 1:02:16
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:16
from from like, I don't know, like 15. 

Leann Roderick 1:02:19
Mm hmm. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:20
De Boer. And I'm just making these numbers up just for my own. 

Leann Roderick 1:02:22
Right? 

Wendy Beck 1:02:23
Experience that don't know how to live 

Leann Roderick 1:02:25
Right. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:25
at all, 

Leann Roderick 1:02:26
No. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:26
even though they have great families and and all kinds 

Leann Roderick 1:02:29
I 

Wendy Beck 1:02:29
of 

Leann Roderick 1:02:29
spent 

Wendy Beck 1:02:29
stuff. 

Leann Roderick 1:02:29
my morning fighting with you with an insurance provider. And I can't. I'm 30 and I'm like, Man, this is so obnoxious. I don't want to do this at all. Can I just ignore it? Like, and so you. Is having that like willpower to do these life things, these obnoxious things. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:49
Yes. 

Leann Roderick 1:02:50
And, you know, obviously, like that is kind of the whole big draw with PRP is we're going to teach you how to live. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:57
Effectively. 

Leann Roderick 1:02:57
Effectively. But that could be said for all mental health service. And that's why I like that She explains it like that and I try to sometimes to is like, yes, you're seeing somebody with a license that is essentially but at the end of the day, what does that hurt if they're helping you get through some of these struggles in life and to try to get people to buy in that way? 

Ralph Watkins 1:03:19
One thing I want to say about that with, you know, with kids and adolescents, you know, I see this a lot where I have a kid who goes to school all day. No issues, no problems. As soon as they come home, they crash out. In a lot of times maybe it's just the counseling needs to come in the house and work with the parents on structure in the house. Because structure and boundaries make a child safe. They make them feel safe. 

Leann Roderick 1:03:48
And they make them learn how to live. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:50
Yeah. And that's usually where you get the resistance. You know, parents trying to. Instill these boundaries. And then you have the child who is, you know, oppositional and doesn't want to. And then it just becomes like this power struggle. Right. 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:05
And parents have a tendency to consequence themselves into a corner where I've taken everything away from this kid that I can. And now the kid's just like her. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:14
Right. 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:14
Right. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:15
Yeah. 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:15
What else are we going to do? So we need to start working on ways to help parents learn to 

help a child earn things back. 

Leann Roderick 1:04:26
You motivate them 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:27
Right. 

Leann Roderick 1:04:27
to. Learn these things rather than. 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:29
Consequence them. 

Leann Roderick 1:04:31
Positive reinforcement. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:32
Okay. Well, I mean, I think this is a really educational. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:38
Well, yeah. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:41
While we don't talk about mental health like we think we should. And I 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:45
I 

Wendy Beck 1:04:45
feel 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:45
feel 

Wendy Beck 1:04:45
like 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:45
like 

Wendy Beck 1:04:45
this 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:45
this 

Wendy Beck 1:04:45
is 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:45
is 

Wendy Beck 1:04:45
a 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:45
a 

Wendy Beck 1:04:46
really 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:46
really. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:46
good way to have. 

Ralph Watkins 1:04:48
And. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:49
And just kind of getting that perspective because it's so incredibly scary. But what you're trying to do is you're just trying to come in and assess and and say, hey, let's do it. This way. Or let me show you how this is like. I like what you said about their reality versus what did you say? Like what you perceive it to be versus what? Yes. And I think that that's huge. 

Leann Roderick 1:05:13
Mm hmm. Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:16
Doors open any time y'all want to come back. 

Leann Roderick 1:05:18
Well, 

Rich Bennett 1:05:18
We 

Leann Roderick 1:05:18
thank. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:19
were. 

Ralph Watkins 1:05:19
Q. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:19
We got to do another roundtable. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:21
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:22
Knowing this. I mean, technically this is but with people from other source resources as well. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:29
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:29
Get everybody work together. 

Leann Roderick 1:05:30
Very open to that. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:32
Okay. Sounds great. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:35
Go ahead. Wrap it up. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:36
Okay. Well, thanks, guys. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:41
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoy today's episode and learn something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversations with Rich Bennett Dotcom. For updates, giveaways and more. Until next time, take care, Be kind and keep the conversations going.