Thomas Brown on Grief, Growth & the Hero’s Journey

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning ten this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we shared laughs, tears and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next ten years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios. Harford County Living presents conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Today, I'm going to get kind. 

No, no, no. The truth is. 

Rich Bennett 1:01
Before we begin, I want to inform our listeners that this episode may contain discussions about substance abuse, mental illness, addiction, recovery, or possibly even suicide. Some content may be triggering or distressing for those who have experienced similar struggles or are sensitive to these topics. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is struggling, please seek help from a trusted, professional or supported organization. Today, I had the honor of speaking with Thomas Brown, a storyteller, mental health advocate, and the creator of two impactful podcast, Inner Monologue, A conversation or interview series and stages, an audio diary exploring mental health, grief and life's many transitions. Thomas's journey is deeply personal after losing his brother to suicide in 2001. He spent a decade navigating grief and uncertainty before embarking on a transformative cross-country bicycle tour in 2012 to raise awareness for suicide prevention and the healing power of art. That journey, inspired by Joseph Campbell's hero's Journey, is now chronicled in his newly published book, 2012 A Bicycle Odyssey. I almost wanted to say 2012 A Space. A Space Odyssey. 

Thomas Brown 2:29
Ten. 

Rich Bennett 2:31
Wow. But through. Oh. It's funny, you know, when I read it as a 2000 limit. What? No. Yeah. You are the second person I've had on that has bicycled across the United States. The other one who I just spoke with it. She's been on four times now. Her and her husband rode across the road from Oregon to Washington, D.C., on a tandem bicycle. 

Thomas Brown 3:02
That's awesome. 

Rich Bennett 3:05
I can't make it to the end of my driveway anyways. How's it going, Tommy? 

Thomas Brown 3:08
It's going. It's going. Thank you for having me on your show. I really appreciate it. I'm grateful for it. 

Rich Bennett 3:14
Oh, my pleasure. And the first thing I want to talk about is the book, because I want people to purchase the book because I think it's very important. And we've talked about mental health on here a lot. We talk about suicide a lot. 

And which I think is very important to do, because back in my day when I was younger, it wasn't talked about. You didn't talk about it. 

Thomas Brown 3:39
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 3:40
Now you're you know, you're getting more and more people talking about it. And it's helping. It's helping. It's saving people's lives, which I think is very important. You 

Thomas Brown 3:51
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 3:51
did. 

Thomas Brown 3:51
Yeah. I mean, not only are, you know, a large portion of our population are dying every single day from suicide, but there's a large portion of veterans that are dying every single day from suicide. So I think that's also another important aspect to look at it from. You know, I think with my book, I did. I did I send you a copy or. No? Okay. Okay. So my book my book is a little bit it doesn't go into the INS and outs of like, you know, what mental health is and what suicide is. It definitely is. It goes into more of like some of the things that I dealt with. Even 

Rich Bennett 4:33
Right. 

Thomas Brown 4:33
once I was accepted, the fact that my brother was gone and I accepted the fact that he the way that he had gone, like by the time when the book starts, like you're already like I'm already like I'm already there, you know, I give a quick like, like this is like, you know, preview or quick story of like what my life was like before he died, after he died and all that. But so I think like the biggest thing takeaway that I was trying to get across to the reader is the importance of self-awareness. The importance of awareness and self-awareness is just one of the pillars of awareness and how I wouldn't say that it's the only true cause for for mental health, mental illness, or even suicide. But I think the importance of self-awareness is one aspect that the professionals. Who research and study suicide aren't looking at like they look at trauma. They just look at trauma recovery. They look at like your environment and they look at, you know, whether it's a biological thing. Like those are some aspects that they really like focus on. But nobody's really talking about the importance of self-awareness. And I think that's because 

Rich Bennett 5:47
Yeah, 

Thomas Brown 5:48
self-aware, like we all have like a level like a default level of self-awareness, like I am Thomas I am walking through the world. But there's so 

Rich Bennett 5:56
right. 

Thomas Brown 5:56
much more than that, you know, of like the. 

Rich Bennett 5:59
Oh, yeah. 

Thomas Brown 5:59
The who, the who, the who, the Thomas is and what is the character of Thomas and why does Thomas do the things that he does in any given situation that that isn't something that is explored and it's not something that like our society really cares to cultivate. 

Rich Bennett 6:19
Yeah. What do you think about how many people really knew themselves? 

Thomas Brown 6:22
Yeah. I mean, it's it's and when I talk about self-awareness and I don't get into it in this book, hopefully I'll get into it in like the next book. I allude to it here. But like to me, what is when I'm really asking, there's like when it comes to self-awareness, there's like kind of like two aspects how you respond to to stress or joy and how and what is your character. And to really ask that question forces people to ask questions, right? To really get to the answer. That forces people to ask questions that they may not be comfortable with. There's a lot of pride in like who people are and what they come from. And I don't mean to poo poo that pride, but I'm asking you to look beyond that like, So who are you outside of the state? Who are you outside of your family lineage? Who are you outside of your your faith? Who are you outside your meets? But who are you outside of your sexual orientation, your gender identity and you're able body ness? Like, who are you like, I refer to Thomas as more of this character, this avatar that I am, that I that what I truly am embodies in this world. That I walk through. And like the ego that Thomas is and the the astronaut meat suit that I embody is kind of a filtration system in which the rest of the world engages with me. 

Rich Bennett 7:56
Right. 

Thomas Brown 7:57
So. 

Rich Bennett 7:58
So I had to laugh because I'd never heard that term meat soup. 

Thomas Brown 8:01
I. Some people like it. Other people, it's. I you know what? Either people really laugh at it or they love it. So then I like also. 

Rich Bennett 8:10
I'm still in it. I'm still in it, brother. 

Thomas Brown 8:12
So I also just use like like Avatar is another term that I use that 

Rich Bennett 8:17
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 8:17
like some people are a little bit more cool with, but I think it's so funny whenever I say that people either laugh or they're repulsed. There's no in between. So they're just like, don't say me to. 

Rich Bennett 8:35
I don't know. Never mind. 

Thomas Brown 8:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 8:37
In today's world, you'd never know why. There. Yeah. God. 

Thomas Brown 8:40
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 8:40
Yeah, we were two. We were just talking about something similar like this. I had another guest on actually, the episode dropped today, especially when it comes to self-awareness, people not knowing themselves, and a lot of times they don't even like themselves. And I think that's a giant hurdle as well. 

Thomas Brown 8:59
Yeah. Yeah. Well, why do you not like yourself? What is it about your character that you don't like? Is it your character or is it your station in life? You know, and like, to me, 

there's two ways. Like, I consider myself to be an artist. And like, when in this world, a lot of people like to. They like to decide, you know, success is something different to everybody. What's success is to somebody that I may be engaged in a conversation with is probably going to be much different than mine. To some people, it's like finances. Its success is like the the type of stuff that you are able to purchase because of like the money that you make. To me, I don't measure success that way, but like in this paradigm in which we live in, yeah, like in this, like whatever, I wouldn't really call it a capitalistic society, but it's, it's a little bit more the land, but like, yeah, to have money makes things a little bit more convenient. But convenience isn't always success. And for me, like success is like is, is how I manage myself, how I manage my mental health. And I know the things that help me manage that. And one of the things that helps me manage my mental health is being an artist. So when I like when somebody is like, what do you do? I usually tell them I'm an artist. But like, you know, because artist is something that can be a loaded word. 

Rich Bennett 10:29
wide variety of meaning. 

Thomas Brown 10:31
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also like, Oh, you don't make that much money then because you're an artist. So I always say, like, when you say that you're an artist, you say like I'm an artist, or do you say I'm an artist? You know what I mean? Like, it's the energy. Like. Like, 

Rich Bennett 10:45
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 10:46
like. 

Rich Bennett 10:46
Uh huh. 

Thomas Brown 10:47
Like I'm a fucking artist. Like, you know, like, you got to, like, try to, like, shame me for that. Go fuck yourself. 

Rich Bennett 10:55
Exactly. 

Thomas Brown 10:56
And so and I think that there's a way that, like, 

you know, there's that there's like, a pride in, in, in that that's the thing that you are. And I think that if you don't if you don't like who you are, it's important for you to find out. Is it the station in life? Is it, you know, are you, do you not like where you're at and you're finding it hard to get out of that? Do you have a plan to get out of that or do you not like who you are because you've bought in to what people you know, other people's interpretation of what success and what like living a good life is. And that's another part of self-awareness is that like, you know, where do all the influences stop and where do I begin? Because look, I'm very I'm very grateful of where I landed. You know, where whatever you want to call that, there's the true identity behind that ego of Thomas. I'm very proud. I'm very grateful of where I landed. You know, but I don't have a lot of like. Cried because I didn't have anything to do with it. I just landed here. I didn't. I didn't make this place. I'm I'm I'm 

Rich Bennett 12:15
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 12:15
I'm. I'm. I'm I'm a suckling the fruits of the labor voters that came before me. You know what I mean? And then just trying to do the best that I can 

to be grateful for it, to not take it for granted, and also do my best to make sure that, like the people that I interact with on a daily basis, 

don't feel less of themselves when they interact with me, you know? 

Rich Bennett 12:45
Make him feel good. 

Thomas Brown 12:46
Yeah. Yeah. The most important thing to me is that like, like when you're cultivating awareness, one of the things that you're cultivating is or one of the things that you're trying to, like, embody is is compassion, understanding, and empathy. You've got to be able to do that for yourself. It's 

Rich Bennett 13:05
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 13:06
a two way street. It's got to go for you. But like, it also has to go for the people that you interact with, 

Rich Bennett 13:13
Mm. 

Thomas Brown 13:13
whether they're somebody that you see once a week or every two weeks at the grocery store, somebody you see when you fill up your gas, somebody at your favorite restaurant, people that you work with or that you interact with because they come in to your place of business or like people in your family. Like, it's just kindness. Empathy and and understanding are not signs of weakness. I think they're the greatest signs of strength, you know? 

Rich Bennett 13:39
All. Thank you for saying that. And I agree with you 

110%. And one of the things I always told my kids, you know, when you're out and about, smile. smile. Smile at people. Don't be afraid to say hi because you could be saving that person's life. 

Thomas Brown 13:59
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:00
It just it radiates it's showing positivity. And you're right. It is. It is a strength. My I have to laugh because my daughter, my wife, they hate going to the grocery store with me. 

Thomas Brown 14:12
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 14:13
Actually, they don't even go with me anymore. But whenever I go, by the time I get back, they're like, Oh, who'd you run into? Because they know I'll, I'll just stop and talk to people even if I don't know them. 

Thomas Brown 14:25
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:27
I mean, why not? 

Thomas Brown 14:28
Yeah, I always like to when when they wear their name tags, I always like to. You know, and if they don't have a name tag, and especially I'm out of like a restaurant, I'm like, I asked them, Hey, what's your name? And then I try to, like, acknowledge them because I want them to know that I see them as a person and not as somebody that's serving me. 

Rich Bennett 14:45
Yes. 

Thomas Brown 14:46
You know what I mean? I mean, you should be 

Rich Bennett 14:48
Oh. 

Thomas Brown 14:48
polite at a restaurant in general. You don't want somebody hawking leave using your food. You know, I mean, it's it can be a self-serving it's not always altruistic. It's kind of like, you know, self-serving sometimes. But I think it's just like the best thing to do is like, I don't understand why there's there's like, you know, I love making fun of dudes because, like, there's this whole vibe of it's trying to make a comeback. The more used the pendulum swings one way with like, men being a little bit more like, you know, aware of their sensitivities that like, there's always push back. You got the Andrew Tates and the Joe Rogan's that are like, Oh, men are. And it's like, dude, men are emotional. 

Rich Bennett 15:34
Yes. 

Thomas Brown 15:35
We're very emotional. Do you know how I know this? Go to any sports bar and you're going to see two extremes happening. Either an extreme amount of joy or an extreme amount of despair. Just because men are only comfortable with expressing those two emotions does not mean that they're not emotional creatures. There's just a wide spectrum of emotions that they're not allowing themselves to get in touch with or to have a relation like being in touch with your feelings doesn't mean that you're sensitive or soft. It's another form of relationship with yourself. You know, knowing the chinks in your armor, knowing where you're strong, where you're soft, how to like guard it, how to not let people take advantage of it. And for me, I'll be the first person to admit my faults. 

Rich Bennett 16:29
Right. 

Thomas Brown 16:29
Because you can't use it against me if I already am comfortable with admitting them. It's not. You can't use it to shame me. 

Rich Bennett 16:37
And I think when you admit your faults, it's. False failure. Yeah, Because when you admit them and you accept failure as well, it just makes you stronger. 

Thomas Brown 16:48
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 16:49
Because you learn from it. 

Thomas Brown 16:51
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 16:52
learn from it. 

Thomas Brown 16:52
So back to your. Go ahead. Sorry. 

Rich Bennett 16:55
Oh, no. Go ahead. 

Thomas Brown 16:56
Well, back to your you know, you bring up the book. Like the main thing about the book itself is that it's more of a journey of me expanding my awareness of myself. 

Rich Bennett 17:09
Actually. How long did it take you to write the book? 

Thomas Brown 17:11
Well. 

Rich Bennett 17:12
Three 372 pages are some. 

Thomas Brown 17:15
It's like 327, but only like 298. Only like 298. Our actual story. 

Rich Bennett 17:22
Okay. 

Thomas Brown 17:22
It took me about ten years to write. I 

Rich Bennett 17:27
Wow. 

Thomas Brown 17:28
and you know what? A lot of that was just like and I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell, as you can tell from the book. 

That's my JSI. 

I it took me a long time because writing itself was kind of like another mountain that I had to climb. It was another initiation that I had to embark on. It was another dragon that I had to slay. I've always loved the idea of writing. I've always loved the idea of like creating stories and characters and writing like poems. But people used to make fun of me because I was a horrible speller. You know? So that became that kind of like, became just like a thing that like. So when I was in film school, I was in film school. Before the bike ride, I wasn't really it was a community college. But here in, in, in Arizona, the Scottsdale community colleges are really, really, really big as a really big film school for two year 

school. And a lot of people, you know, they'll do their two years and then they hop over to a big university in California. But I was kind of like, you know, I was like in my late twenties, early thirties when I was in school. So I was just trained. I wasn't worried about a degree. I wanted the experience I was doing, trying to take as many classes and pre-production as many classes and production as many classes in post-production, and then also video television production and film production. 

Rich Bennett 19:01
Wow. 

Thomas Brown 19:02
So I was just like I was doing all of it. And when I got into pre-production and I started doing screenwriting, I realized I was actually a good writer, that I was better at screenwriting because you write the way people talk. 

Writing a book is 

Rich Bennett 19:18
Well, 

Thomas Brown 19:18
a. 

Rich Bennett 19:18
I never thought about that. 

Thomas Brown 19:19
Yeah. You know, literature and screenplays are two different things. 

Rich Bennett 19:25
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 19:25
You know, because you write a little bit of direction, but you don't get you're like with with literature, you know, a novel or a memoir or like I wrote, you can play around with description and be a little bit more poetic, you know? 

Rich Bennett 19:42
Right. 

Thomas Brown 19:43
In screenplays. It's just like, this is this, this is that You're just giving like you're giving the actor who's who's playing the part like an idea of what's in the environment. You don't have to be poetic with it. The poetry comes in in the in how the person talks and how they communicate. And so that's where you really have to do it. But you're writing the way people talk, not the way like a book is written. 

Rich Bennett 20:13
You're not a painter. Yeah. You're not painting the picture. 

Thomas Brown 20:16
Yeah. So I think that gave me my first. And that was like right before the bike ride. That kind of like gave me my first like boost of confidence. When it came to writing, my teacher was really, really, really helpful with that. And so when I when we went on the bike ride, it was the idea of doing a I wanted to do a documentary, but we wanted we didn't raise enough money to hire somebody to come along with us because we had a support vehicle and all that, because we spoke in over 100 different cities. And we had we had to be at these these speaking engagements, too. So we bought the truck so that if one of us got injured, we we wouldn't fall behind. The person who's injured could drive the car and the other person could ride the bicycle. You know what I mean? So we we we did the 7000 miles as a team and in the vehicle was like there just for if the other person which was helpful because I had a bout with diverticulitis for about a week and then. 

Rich Bennett 21:18
Oh, man. 

Thomas Brown 21:19
Yeah, it's, it's come back. And now I'm like, Oh, diverticulitis isn't something that happens to you. It's something that you have. 

So, um. 

Rich Bennett 21:30
Man. 

Thomas Brown 21:30
Yeah. And then my partner who went. Who did the bike ride with me, Zach, he had like a back injury for three states on the East Coast. So he didn't ride is. Yeah, he didn't riders. He didn't ride his bike until we got to from Chapel Hill, North Carolina, until about Philly. So yeah, so I did most, I did all the riding from town to town and he just followed me in a truck, so. 

Rich Bennett 21:59
Wow. I never even thought about that. I mean, getting injured is one thing, but getting sick. 

Thomas Brown 22:05
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 22:05
They're saying, man. 

Thomas Brown 22:06
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially with, like, diverticulitis. It feels like you're digesting razor blades and, like, you hit a bump on the bike and you're just like, Oh, 

Rich Bennett 22:13
Oh. 

Thomas Brown 22:14
oh, yeah. It's like, it's. It's so much. It's so much pain. So, you know, knowing that I didn't, we, I knew pretty early on in the journey that we weren't, I wasn't going to be able to it wasn't going to be a documentary like I had an understanding as a filmmaker of how like, shoot stuff Zack didn't. But I still continued to shoot footage of the environment, shoot footage with interview like interviewed people, and I used all of that. 

To help me kind of like continue to remember, you know, 

Rich Bennett 22:48
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 22:48
a lot of the photographs, a lot of the interviews. And I pretty much knew the outline and that I wanted to use Joseph Campbell's Monomyth of the Hero's Journey as like the chapter heads, 

because I was 

Rich Bennett 23:00
Huh. 

Thomas Brown 23:00
like also like my way of inviting people to look at their life like I choose, you know, the hero's journey and storytelling as kind of a tool for self-awareness. You know, 

Rich Bennett 23:13
Right. 

Thomas Brown 23:14
I when I watch movies and I see what the what these fictional characters are going through, it doesn't matter if it's fantastical or if it's like a grounded drama. Like they're still saying the same thing. It's, you know, usually about a struggle, overcoming something, learning. It doesn't matter if the character can fly or levitate things with their mind. Their challenge of what they're trying to learn is something that anybody can understand because we've all had to face challenges and learn and we've had like our peaks and valleys and our learning curves and how to overcome stuff. And so, you know, I knew that that was going to be the frame of my book. So when I came home, it was really more about, you know, building on confidence for my film, for my screenplay professor. I had a few people that kind of like helped guide me. I would have them read pages, 

and it wasn't I had my own back injury that I wasn't because of the medication I was on, I wasn't able to write for like nine months that. 

Rich Bennett 24:16
Nine months. 

Thomas Brown 24:17
Yeah, I had like nine months too close to a year of not really writing. And so that's when I started my first podcast, Inner Monologue, and it was, you know, I would record a bunch of these interviews with people, long format, conversational interviews. And then before I would post them, I would record my own monologue and 

Rich Bennett 24:39
Okay. 

Thomas Brown 24:39
I would talk. I would kind of like, you know, use the monologue to talk about the person that we're about the audience was going to listen to. But I would also kind of like editorialize, you know, I would talk about things that were happening in the world or my observations of them or my own personal observations of how I interact with things in the world. And it would be like about a 10 to 

Rich Bennett 25:02
Right. 

Thomas Brown 25:03
15 minute like monologue that I wrote weekly. I wouldn't even write. I would just kind of put like bullet heads, and then I would just kind of like go into a flow state. And sometimes it sounded good. Sometimes you could tell like I was working through something and usually like it would 

Rich Bennett 25:17
Right. 

Thomas Brown 25:17
take me like four episodes before I finally nailed what I was trying to talk about originally. But it was doing those monologues that the one piece that I was missing from my book was my voice. Like, it was much more biographical and some philosophical ideas, but like my specific voice of how I explained those things was missing. And once I figured that out. 

You know, I just I kind of got going. It was probably like 

2016. I started all over again 

through the I had like four drafts done and I just threw those out and I res redid everything and it just. 

Rich Bennett 26:02
You threw them out. 

Thomas Brown 26:04
I mean, I had I have I had access to the notes, but I pretty much was like, we're starting all over from the beginning. And I just started all over again for my 2016. But like, you know, with 2000, there was a lot of stuff that happened. Like, you know, I got I noticed that every single time I got a promotion. In my job that that would kill three months of writing. 

Because, like. 

Rich Bennett 26:30
Really? 

Thomas Brown 26:30
Yeah, because, like, the way that I retain information, if you like. One of the symbols on the cover of the book is a is a turtle. And yeah, I'm very turtle like and how my learning curve is very low, like it's very wide and long and so like it, there's a lot of energy that I use up learning something, even if it's simple. It's just like if there's a lot of information that I need to retain. So it's like kind of like the energy that I would expel. And learning like a new task or a new skill would kind of like I would come home and I would just be too tired. You know, I get off work, I'd go to the gym and I kind of like the gym was like my way of exercising my demons. And then I'd come home and I'd I'd just be too tired. And plus there's like, other things that I play around with from time to time. I like to do photography and stuff like that, but I would always come back to the book. I had somebody that was also a self-published author. He'd call me up and if I would go like a month without writing, he'd be like, Hey dude, you got to get back into it. And I would get back into it. And then, you know, COVID kind of like that was another I. 

Rich Bennett 27:43
Put a damper on things, 

Thomas Brown 27:45
Yeah. You know what? At first I was like, I thought, you know, a lot of people were being sent home and they weren't, you know, they were shutting down. And I was like, Oh, dude, I'm going to finish my book already. I'm going to use. 

Rich Bennett 27:55
right? 

Thomas Brown 27:56
I was actually like, there was like a weird part of me that was like, Cool, shut down, I'm going to go home and finish my book. But like, even though I work for a library, that's like my day job. But the the system that I worked for was closing the library that I was in because it was in a high school. So I didn't shut down. 

Rich Bennett 28:16
Ow! Ow, 

Thomas Brown 28:17
I didn't shut down. The school stopped, but because there weren't any any students there, like we had the whole building to ourselves and we just, 

Rich Bennett 28:26
Ow! 

Thomas Brown 28:26
you know, so we finished. And then I went I was I was shipped off to a different library, which I'm still at right now. And I was the acting supervisor for a department and like, having to learn, I never supervised people before. And then I had like eight people under my belt and learning how to, like, navigate all those different egos and also learning how to become a supervisor or to me, like. And I and I bring a lot of my own personal philosophy into it. I was like, Don't call me supervisor. I'm your coach. You know what I mean? This is our team and like, I'm your coach and you're my teammates and, you know, and so it just took me a while to like, learn how to, like, navigate egos. And really it forced me to put my philosophy to work and which helped me kind of like, you know, once again, back to the idea of self-awareness is like, All right, is what I'm writing bullshit are the are the things that are the discoveries that I'm making on the road. Just. Foolish. Am I just full of shit? Or is it. Or is it real? And can I apply these outside of a 

beatnik on the road type of like adventure to, 

Rich Bennett 29:47
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 29:47
you know, an actual work setting? And and I think that I've been able to do that. In fact, like, now I make a running joke that, like, if I hire you and you're a young I used to like hiring like retirees, I was very adjusts. I'd rather retire. I'd rather, like, hire like, like 60 year olds that like you're just looking because they're bored at home, but they're like they've got a solid work ethic. But now I've started, like, hiring more young people, which I think is also helped keep me young. But I also tell them, like, I'm going to ruin you for all future employment. Because I have I have I have very strict boundaries. I have very strict boundaries, but like, we're going to whistle while we work. We're going to have fun because life is hard enough. And I don't want you coming to a library and dreading because your boss is hard on you and you're you know, the the environment is is is just like murky and mean and dispirited. So I make you know, I have code words for people. Okay. If I think you're you're you're getting a little you're getting a little lackadaisical, a little lazy, you know, a little bit too much chatter back here and not enough work that's getting done. Like, I have like. I have, like, a code. And that way, the reason why I have a code word rather than the coming out and be like, hey, you guys need to get to work is because like, I don't want to embarrass them in front of other people. They know the code word. 

Rich Bennett 31:23
Good. 

Thomas Brown 31:23
They know the code word. The other people that might be visiting the department don't. 

I mean, so it's. 

Rich Bennett 31:32
That's a good supervisor. 

Thomas Brown 31:33
Yeah. And I am so and so, like working with the team really helped me as I feel like as an author too. Like if I'm going to bring up these points, if I'm going to make these, these, these subtle points in the adventure where I, when I learned them, I want to make sure that I'm actually practicing it in the real world. So I think like my job and the people that I work with and the people that I, that I, that I supervise, they kind of like, help me put more heart into the book. 

Rich Bennett 32:08
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 32:09
So. 

Rich Bennett 32:10
Well, one of the terms I cannot stand what I used to manage. I used to work in an IT company and I had staff below me. I only only I shouldn't say below me. I hate that worked with me. And whenever I would go visit the one group at this one hospital, I don't know how many times I had to get on the one guy. He would always take me around and introduce me. He said, This is my boss. I said, No, no, no. 

Oh, no, no. Never call me boss. 

Thomas Brown 32:44
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 32:44
You are. Should you get your supervisor or manager? Never say boss. You say, Why? I say, What does boss spelled backwards 

of? No double S.O.B.. And I'm not stupid. 

Thomas Brown 33:01
I 

Rich Bennett 33:02
I. 

Thomas Brown 33:02
love that. 

Rich Bennett 33:03
Oh, yeah, I hate that. I hated being called that. 

Thomas Brown 33:07
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 33:09
Who do call me boss. We work together. 

Thomas Brown 33:11
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 33:11
And as the other thing I did, like, don't ever say that. And I've even told owners is I never I never work for anybody. I'll work with you. 

Thomas Brown 33:20
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 33:20
Because when you work for somebody, you're not getting stuff done. And that's important. What you said, too, about having fun at work. 

Thomas Brown 33:27
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 33:27
If you had. I think I find it when you have fun at work, you get more done. 

Thomas Brown 33:31
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 33:32
And his quality work, 

Thomas Brown 33:33
Yeah. And I, 

Rich Bennett 33:35
Ali, were 

Thomas Brown 33:35
I really actually, like, proud of the diverse team that I've put together to. You know what I mean? Like, I have a I have a very like I inherited two people. One is like this Japanese woman in her fifties. She's the hardest working person I've ever met in my entire life. She could run circles around, you know, 20 of the best other employees I have, like this 60 year old that probably wasn't diagnosed autistic, but he's definitely on the spectrum, 

Rich Bennett 34:05
right. 

Thomas Brown 34:06
you know? And then, like, I have people of different sexual orientation and gender and and and race and I don't I feel like having the young people and learning how they view the world and sharing how I view the world, it helps them. Yeah, I've I've had I've had 

some I've had a a of you know, employees that come up to me and say like, I just want you to know that because of who you are, you're one of the only three white men that I feel safe around. 

Rich Bennett 34:50
While. 

Thomas Brown 34:51
And that's the thing that comes to like awareness, like I'm a heterosexual white male, Gen Xer. All right. 

How the world sees me is going to be different from how the world 

Rich Bennett 35:06
Right. 

Thomas Brown 35:06
will see other people. And I try to keep that in my mind. I try not to be ignorant of that or, you know, like the world has made great strides in how in in equality. But we're not there yet. Evolution did not stop with our thumbs. Yeah, you know, I mean, like. 

Rich Bennett 35:29
Yeah. No, you're right. 

Thomas Brown 35:30
We still we still have a long way to go and. 

I think that to me is part of cultivating awareness like I call the three. And this is what I call my three pillars of awareness. And I'm sure there's more and I'll probably like add more pillars to it. But the first one is self-awareness. Where you're discovering who you are. Why do you respond? To how why you respond emotionally and what types of emotions you use when you respond to certain situations and your character. Who are you? Are you a good person? Are you. Who are you? Outside of all the influences of what people tell you, all the conditioning, that self-awareness. The next pillar is spatial awareness. My environment, the people that surround me, the people that I that are in my circle of influence. The actual topography of the layout of the place that I work around. Am I. Am I navigating it in a place that shows that I am paying attention not only for my own 

Rich Bennett 36:34
Right. 

Thomas Brown 36:34
safety, but for the safety of people around me? And then the third pillar I call social awareness. And that's like understanding that like people are going to have a different experience in life based on simple physical and you know, how they look physically, what their gender is, what their sexual orientation, what their religion is. And I mean, I've one that when it comes to religion and sports specifically is why I love George, why I love Joseph Campbell. I consider I always tell people I'm a heretic. You know, I'm not a Christian. I'm a heretic. But. 

Rich Bennett 37:15
Right. 

Thomas Brown 37:16
Through my appreciation of story, I can read the Bible and understand the story it's trying to tell me because it's still a human story. They're still human. There are still people. There are still characters that are learning how to exist. I could read 

Rich Bennett 37:34
Right. 

Thomas Brown 37:34
the Torah, I could read the Koran, I could read X-Men and Avengers and William Blake, and you know what I mean? And and Daniel Quinn and Stephen King. And to me, they're all saying the same thing. They just have a different way of. 

Talking about the the the phenomenon of being. And other books are used in a manipulative way to control people while the other books are just used as entertainment. But the characters are still going through things that are teaching them how to exist in the world. And that's what storytelling is. And I would say that, like, you know, people talk about fire or the invention of agriculture or the invention of the of the wheel, but like one of the most powerful technologies that we don't even consider a technology that like is just so ingrained in our DNA in our daily life that we don't even notice. It is language. Language has 

Rich Bennett 38:42
Oh. 

Thomas Brown 38:42
the power to uplift. Language has the power to control. Language has the power to separate, Language has the power to bring together and like like language is used. Language is used as a weapon a lot of times, but it can also be used as like the greatest tool of for for for, you know, having true freedom. 

Rich Bennett 39:11
Yeah. Holy cow. I never even thought about that. But you're right. 

Thomas Brown 39:15
It's a technology. 

Rich Bennett 39:16
right. 

Thomas Brown 39:16
It's a it's a it's a tool that we use to communicate with each other. 

Rich Bennett 39:22
You're listening in on the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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Thomas Brown 40:33
Me? 

Rich Bennett 40:34
to. 

Thomas Brown 40:35
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 40:35
Well. 

Thomas Brown 40:36
And also like. 

Rich Bennett 40:36
Why is George Carlin popping into my head? 

Thomas Brown 40:39
I love that guy. I agree. I love George. George? Yeah, I used 

Rich Bennett 40:45
Oh, 

Thomas Brown 40:45
to. I was raised on that guy. My parents. My parents didn't really have, like, the best boundaries. Bless them. When it came to allowing me to watch certain content as a child. And 

Rich Bennett 41:00
yeah. 

Thomas Brown 41:00
and George Carlin was definitely. One of those. Like I didn't know what he was talking about half the time because I was a kid. I was like, in first grade, I didn't know what he was talking about, but I just I knew people were laughing at it. And then there are some words that I can't understand. And then as I got older and older and like my favorite, George Carlin is like right before he died because he was at his angriest. He was. 

Rich Bennett 41:24
Oh, my God. Yes. 

Thomas Brown 41:25
He was just disappointed in the human species and angry about it. 

Rich Bennett 41:32
I loved watching him. Him a Richard Pryor was another. But I the one that really I think is a very talented comedian and you never knew where he was going was Robin Williams. 

Thomas Brown 41:50
Yeah. He was all. Whoa! Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 41:53
He's just so creative. And it's like, 

how? 

Thomas Brown 42:00
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 42:02
I don't know. I don't. I don't understand. Was this bike ride? How long did they actually take you guys? 

Thomas Brown 42:08
It took us seven months, but that's only because we didn't do a straight line. 

Rich Bennett 42:13
Right. 

Thomas Brown 42:14
We did a giant W through the air, through the country. And then we also took a few cities that we allowed ourselves like a week, a week break. 

Rich Bennett 42:28
Okay. 

Thomas Brown 42:29
So we would have an event, but then we'd have like four days off. So like he had family in Omaha, so we stayed in Omaha for a while. He had friends in Lincoln. We stayed in Lincoln for a while. We hung out in Austin because we'd never been there for about a week. Spent some time in Sarasota, Florida. Spent extra time in D.C., extra time in Philadelphia, extra time in Manhattan. 

And, you know, because we we we did it. If we would, if we weren't doing any speaking and we were just doing a straight line, we could have been done in like a month and a half, two months. 

Rich Bennett 43:11
How many miles was the total? 

Thomas Brown 43:13
Well, we did combined 

total from where we started and where we ended was over 7000 miles. 

So and the fact that we only rode together through California in the last day, you know, 

and with his injury in Chapel Hill, like he probably wrote about 3000 plus miles and I wrote about 4000 plus miles. 

Rich Bennett 43:42
While. 

Thomas Brown 43:44
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:44
A year. And you've only done it one time, right? 

Thomas Brown 43:47
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:47
What? 

Thomas Brown 43:48
I mean, I walked across the country with a group of people six years earlier off and 

Rich Bennett 43:52
What? 

Thomas Brown 43:53
yeah, we that was when I was I was walking with a group of progressive Christians from Phoenix to Washington DC, but I was also originally going to be a walker. And then the main minister who was my parents minister, knew that I was in the film. So he had me. I became the production assistant for the filmmaker. That was the unpaid production assistant for the filmmaker that was following them. And so I did a lot of walking backwards and, you know, yeah, and I just let the the walkers, you know, like, watch, you know, keep me safe from traffic. A lot of running around them with the camera and or leapfrogging them in a car and then like running with them and then running back to the car and then leapfrogging them and then, you know, getting a shot of them walking by and then running up and walking with them. And that was kind of like film school on the road and theology on the road. So I learned a lot. I didn't start drinking. Yeah, I didn't start drinking wine. And so I did that walk. Those Christians really love their wine. 

Rich Bennett 45:03
I see you walked. You've done the bike. Any plans or. Or was there any other 

Thomas Brown 45:10
No, 

Rich Bennett 45:10
thing 

Thomas Brown 45:10
no, 

Rich Bennett 45:10
else? 

Thomas Brown 45:10
no. 

Rich Bennett 45:10
Like. 

Thomas Brown 45:11
I have I have laughed about like, you know, maybe I get like, a oversized big wheel, you know, was like, little like. A big wheel across. Yeah. Or handstands across the country. The one thing that I've been doing. So I've been to Washington, D.C. twice now. Right. 

Rich Bennett 45:29
Okay. 

Thomas Brown 45:29
And I have never arrived to D.C. by plane, train, automobile or boat. I walked into D.C. and I rode my bicycle into D.C. So I bet that's that's like my personal claim to fame like that. I've been to that the nation's capital twice, and I have not entered by any motorized vehicle, any gas powered and like electric powered vehicle, it's all been foot power. 

Rich Bennett 46:01
So now you want to ride a big wheel into their. You can have somebody pull you in on a wagon. 

Thomas Brown 46:10
I feel. 

Rich Bennett 46:11
What I would say hang gliding, but I don't know. The airspace here may be pretty well protected. 

Thomas Brown 46:17
Yeah, No doubt. No doubt. 

Rich Bennett 46:19
Wow. 

Thomas Brown 46:20
But but 

Rich Bennett 46:20
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 46:20
yeah, I think I really like the idea of traveling in a nonconventional way. 

And I think, like, even if you were, you know, I would rather I'm not afraid of flying, but I would always much rather drive somewhere, even if it's cross country, if I have the time to do it, if I can allow for the time to do it, I'd much rather drive. You get to see more. You get to experience more. And then when you slow that down even further and you're either walking or you're dry or you're riding a bike. Like, it just puts you in. So much, you just you become a part of like, the environment more. There's one this one part. It's not in my book, but I remember being in Nebraska and I was riding my bike and there's all these like. Like cattle ranches around there. And. I was coming up on this huge area of all these cattle and I started yelling at them, Rise up. Do not buy food for the monkeys. Do not buy food for the monkeys. You are intelligent beings. That's okay. I'm totally a meat eater. But like, I was like I was chanting and I had like 300 cattle running along the fence line with me as I rode for, like, another, like, 500 yards. And they were just running with me like I. 

Rich Bennett 47:53
While. 

Thomas Brown 47:54
Stopped in like the support vehicle was like right at the end of that fence then. And I stopped and Zach was like, What the hell are you screaming? And why were all those like, he's like, You have every single cattle that's in there is like now jammed up against the fence and they, they were still mooing at me as I was like refilling my water bottle. It's just there's there's something about like just being on the road and interacting with the environment in that slow pace. I also like the idea, you know, I covet community. Having a community, whatever kind of community is very, very important for one's mental health. But when you go on an adventure like this, you you separate from your community. You one thing that may be a downside to community is that we're all 

subconsciously, you know, authors of each other's story. And you separate from that, especially for as long as we did, you know. You. You get to see who you are outside of. Who are you really outside of your community when there's nobody else? Kind of like, you know, 

subconsciously narrating who you are and what you are. So you and you take a different role as an individual. So I really, really like I think I become much more of a loner. 

But like, I'm fine with that. I'm kind of like, more. I'm part of the community, but I'm I'm the hermit on the hill outside of the village. 

And I'm totally I'm totally cool with that because like, before, like, especially, like in the book, I talk about, like, my primary mental health issue that I had to come to terms with was that I was extremely codependent and I would. 

Rich Bennett 49:53
Okay. 

Thomas Brown 49:53
I would find myself, 

you know, because I didn't want to be alone finding myself in, like, toxic relationships. Both intimate relationships and also like friendship relationships. And it's not like they were the bad people. It was more like our mixture of who we were at that moment in time wasn't good for each other. We had a lot of fun, but there was a there came a point where, like I recognized we were no longer serving each other. We were no longer positive for each other. And I also knew that I needed to break away and I needed to go on the adventure and like the walk across the country was actually my way of starting my life. I was like in my late twenties and I was like, I need to do something. So I guess I'll go walk with a bunch of Christians across the country, 

you know? 

Rich Bennett 50:52
Nice pilgrimage. 

Thomas Brown 50:53
Yeah, I totally. It was. 

Rich Bennett 50:56
Yeah. Wow. I mean, that. That's amazing. And the thing is, when you mentioned one about the castles. The lady I was just talking to, I told you about who ran her and her husband did the tandem bike. Terry Brandt. I just talked to her. She said one of the things that she loved, they were in Montana, which seemed to go on forever. 

Her husband, Brewster, said, Terry, look. And they're pedaling and there's all these horses were running along with them. 

Thomas Brown 51:28
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 51:29
But of course, the thing is, is like she said, a lot of these times you get caught up in the moment and you don't even think about taking photos or anything. Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 51:36
Yeah. And I think I think that's okay. You know what I mean? Like. Like I don't. 

Rich Bennett 51:41
Joy life. 

Thomas Brown 51:41
It's just. I'm. I'm a photographer, all right? Like, I love. I love capturing those moments. But, you know, there's sometimes, like, 

there's something that is so magical, something that is so, like, mystical and just awe inspiring. Like, you can't even. Like, magical and mystical are lame words because they don't even describe it. 

Rich Bennett 52:07
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 52:07
You know that like, that's just for you. You know, there's no picture. You know, if if there's a moment that touches you as much as something like that, does, no picture is going to help you remember it any more than you already do. 

Rich Bennett 52:23
Right. 

Thomas Brown 52:24
And no picture is going to be able to convey it to another person that wasn't there just as you just as your words weren't. Your words can. So like, I just, you know, being able to, like, not take the picture, I think there's something equally is amazing about that. 

Rich Bennett 52:44
With the book. Any plans on doing an audio version? 

Thomas Brown 52:48
Yeah. If I do do it, I'll do it with the gear that I have. I have a friend who's a musician. I don't know if you saw on the back of the book. I still hope the Apple one works. I had somebody who built this QR code for me. So I have three QR codes. So I have a soundtrack for every single. I have a song for each chapter. So soundtrack. 

Rich Bennett 53:15
Really? 

Thomas Brown 53:16
Yeah. I mean, these are my favorite songs. There's there's some you know, there's some old school rock in there. There's some hip hop, there's some kind of, like, folky stuff. There's some, you know, progressive rock in there. There's some pop. Like I said. 

Rich Bennett 53:36
Man. 

Thomas Brown 53:37
So the whole idea with 

Joseph Campbell. He's got a monomyth or 17 steps in the monomyth broken up into three primary sections, Right. So I turned those three primary sections into Act one, Act to enact three. 

Rich Bennett 53:55
Okay. 

Thomas Brown 53:55
You have. 

You know, and I actually named the axe after like the primer. So you have act one is departure. That's where the hero you, the individual. And I'm sure for a marine you would understand this. Is that like one day everything was a normal regular life that you were you were used to and that you understood. And then you got on that bus 

and everything changed. And it was a transformation, like just in just a. 

Rich Bennett 54:30
Oh, big time. 

Thomas Brown 54:31
Just boot camp is is is a transformation. So Act one is departure, Act two is initiation. That's when you're on the journey. And then Act three is the return, the journey home. And so, like, I have these different chapters and they're named. So, for instance, Chapter nine is Atonement with the Father. And then I have a quick layman's term of what that is. I don't use Joseph Campbell's like terminology. I do like a layman's terms because he's very wordy. But I say Jesse says so Joseph Campbell, this is the part where the hero or heroes are forced to face their ultimate fear, roadblock, roadblock or conflict. And so I tell you what that chapter title means. And then I do two things for you. I give you lyrics from a song and dialogue from a movie that kind of like that, 

like are 

they're connected to that vibe of what the chapter is about. And it kind of like sets you up for what my journey is about. So I used this book, I use Joseph. I intentionally use Joseph Campbell's 

Monomyth of the Hero's Journey as like a legitimate tool for you as the reader, that when you're reading this, that you you see how your life and the story that you're living is just as similar to these fictional characters and the story that they're that they're living and that what their experiences are. They're we're all here. We're all heroes in our life just as much. We may be a villain in somebody else's or the comic relief in another person's, but in our lives we're the heroes and we're going on adventures and through awareness. I'm hoping that people will be a little bit more intentional in what adventure they go on, because, you know, like adventure could be our society doesn't really have a legitimate initiation in trial. You know, I think the closest thing to it is military service. But I know I've 

Rich Bennett 56:43
Oh. 

Thomas Brown 56:43
never been in the military, but I've read I've had enough friends that I get the idea of like, you know, rebuilding somebody. So it's the closest thing that we have. I think high school wants to be that. But because the people that are running high school never went through that, that it's not part of their actual system of how they run that institution. You know, you have to have legitimate needs a a, a trials and having a life where you have like an initiation where like the immature 

person who doesn't have a lot of responsibility, you know, transcending into the adult mature who now has the burden of responsibility but knows how to handle it. And there's no actual ritual in between that teaches us that that heat that that breaks us down in a very healthy way and helps us transform into a mature adult that like gives us the skill sets. Like, you have your your trials, you have your initiation is like the school, the practice, and then the trials are the tests, the heat that you have to take. But like, we don't have anything that prepares our young people, that truly prepares them for the world that they're entering in. And, you know, I don't. 

Rich Bennett 58:07
Right. 

Thomas Brown 58:07
And in the B for a while. I used to think that, like, you know, back in my aluminum hat wearing days that this was like and that this was an intentional this was an intentional, nefarious act by the powers of be to keep us stupid, docile and more controllable. But now I think it's more it's more just basic neglect and ignorance and. 

Rich Bennett 58:33
I believe that. 

Thomas Brown 58:34
And neglect and ignorance. You still have people that you know want to take care of themselves. And and and like their interests with other people in their in their position, interests converge. And that's why they. They weren't taught anything else. They don't have the skill set to teach that. So they're more at it in more of a selfish way rather than seen how like a true. 

Initiation and trial for our young people would benefit the entire community. And we just we just don't have that in high school is a 

Rich Bennett 59:12
No, 

Thomas Brown 59:12
lame, 

Rich Bennett 59:12
we. 

Thomas Brown 59:13
lame, lame, lame, lame attempt at that. 

Rich Bennett 59:20
I mean, you think about some of the things that they don't even teach in school anymore is how to balance your checkbook. One of the things that's never taught is common sense. 

Thomas Brown 59:31
Emotional attack. 

Rich Bennett 59:32
Hell, they don't even teach Home EC anymore, I think. 

Thomas Brown 59:35
But emotional intelligence. I 

Rich Bennett 59:37
Oh, yeah. 

Thomas Brown 59:38
you know, I think if there was one thing that I could bring to the world or if I had the opportunity to bring to the world, imagine if there was like a class just was called awareness. And you you know, and you start when you're in first grade or when you're in kindergarten and you have and you don't get an A or, you know, or you don't get graded on it because you're just learning yourself. And there's no way to, like, tell you if you're paying attention or not. There's no way for you to be like, some people might just be a little bit slower in, you know, in their navigation. But right now, you 

awareness is like any other skill set. Some people were born with a great sense of awareness. Some people are born and they can pick up a guitar and not know like how to read music, but they can play it. You know, some people 

Rich Bennett 1:00:27
Play it. 

Thomas Brown 1:00:28
some people can pick up a bow and arrow and they just they hit the bullseye every single time. You know what I mean? 

Rich Bennett 1:00:35
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 1:00:35
Where awareness is like that. So, you know, but you can also it's a skill set that you can learn. And right now, the only way. There's only two. There's like two primary. I'm not gonna say they're the only ones. But though there's two primary ways that people find themselves on a journey of self-discovery. 

Either they need a humanities credit for their degree, and so they just willy nilly take like a philosophy class. And after a semester, their mind is blown and they start asking deeper questions. Or you've suffered a trauma. 

You know, you you know, you you're in combat and you watched your loved one. You watched 

Rich Bennett 1:01:21
So 

Thomas Brown 1:01:22
your buddy 

Rich Bennett 1:01:22
many. 

Thomas Brown 1:01:22
die or, you know, you were in a car accident or your your wife died of cancer or you were raped or you were mugged or you were in a burning building, you know, or you were something happened. You became an alcoholic. Yeah. There's always different traumas that you can like in like once you start, once you realize that, like, you know, you might need some extra help and you can't do it by yourself. And it shouldn't be your family and friends job to help you heal. They could be. They're a part of your community, but you have to heal. So you have to seek out people that have the intelligence to help walk you through that path. But that's when you that's those. And so it's either like I need it for my school or I suffered a trauma and I need to heal myself. Those are the only two paths. Primary. Those are the primary paths that put somebody on a road of self, a journey of self-awareness if they weren't already born with it. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:27
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 1:02:27
So. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:28
It would be great if 

Thomas Brown 1:02:28
So. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:29
taught. 

Thomas Brown 1:02:30
Yeah. Yeah. But you need to have a generation of like, you can't just have anybody teach it, you know, you have to have a certain elder that like has already gone through it. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:43
Somebody like you. 

Thomas Brown 1:02:45
Maybe one of these days I if. Give something to the world that would be like a a a kindergarten through senior year in high school curriculum of how to have how to cultivate awareness and expand your awareness. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:00
That'd be great. 

Thomas Brown 1:03:01
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:02
That would be great. It's definitely needed. 

Thomas Brown 1:03:04
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:04
Without a doubt. 

Thomas Brown 1:03:06
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:06
Man. All right, so something very important. 

Thomas Brown 1:03:10
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:10
Tell everybody where they can get the book. 

Thomas Brown 1:03:13
If you go to rise Phoenix dot org that's my website. 

There are links to all the social media. There's also links to the podcast that I play around with. Sometimes they're not weekly anymore, but I still do them. And there's also a link to my book. Right now it's only on Amazon. I'm trying to get it on some other print to buy websites as well. But if you get it and you like it, please read. Please leave a review 

and if you have a good reads account. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:47
Bye for somebody else as well. 

Thomas Brown 1:03:49
Well, I would actually say buy yourself a copy if you like. Like it. Pass it on. To put it even. Even even like what I've been doing is I've been like, getting copies and I'm putting them in those. Those neighborhood libraries, those. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:06
Yes. 

Thomas Brown 1:04:06
I've been putting them in there. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:07
That's a great idea. 

Thomas Brown 1:04:09
And I just leave like a little like a laminated card that says, like, please, if you like this book, please leave a review on Amazon. And good reads. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:18
Oh, that just gave me an idea. 

Thomas Brown 1:04:20
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:20
So all of you listening, especially you business owners purchase this book, going to Amazon, go onto the Amazon, go on to Amazon. 2012. A space. A space. I did it again. 

God 2012 A Bicycle Odyssey by Thomas Brown. If look at how many these little libraries are in your area and purchase that many books for it and put them in there and then just put put your card in there, your business card. Say if you liked it this much, pass it on, put it in another one. I think that I would love to see more businesses and people just buying a mess of the books and passing more because people can learn from it. It makes a big difference. And also when you go to the website, what's the website again? 

Thomas Brown 1:05:13
Arise. Phoenix. Org. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:16
Make sure you go on to the about section. You can click on the 2012 bicycle tour and look at the photos. When he was in Maryland, you could see his love for Turtle. 

Will. You bet you the third book in the book and I saw the films like, Well, hell I think it's the only photo of Turtles that. Carolyn, Delaware, one of the other. 

Has should be one of them. So before. Before. Before I get to. Wait a minute. You said you're working on another book already. 

Thomas Brown 1:05:56
Yeah. So I want to do a follow up to 2012, The acronym for Light, the banner in which we wrote Our Bike Under is is Rise. It stands for Revolution Revolution Inspired Self Evolution, which is just a pretentious way of saying like, you know, true change comes from within and it's kind of like our moniker for awareness, expanding awareness. I want to write a philosophy book. The importance of how and it's not going to be like, this is how you do it. This is how I did it. Everybody who is in a journey of self-awareness has to write their own playbook. You just have to start. And it can be messy at first when you don't have a foundation and you're building your foundation. It's also going to be a little examination of like the importance of initiation and what initiations are and how it's more of like the first step of a 12 step program. I'm recognizing problems in our society. I do not have the answers because I'm not that smart, but I don't think it's going to be very long. It's it's. You know, like it's just going to be a philosophy book. Philosophy books don't need to be 300 pages. And then 

Rich Bennett 1:07:08
Right. 

Thomas Brown 1:07:08
I want to do a follow up to that one, which is know now, like now that you've started cultivating awareness, let's talk about what I call myths of society. And these are things that we still that our society still participates in, but no longer serves us as a society. And that one 

Rich Bennett 1:07:30
Oh, yeah. 

Thomas Brown 1:07:31
will be much harder to swallow for a lot of people because it'll be a a very critical examination on the society in which we live in right now. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:43
Oh, yeah. You're definitely going to have to come back on that one. 

Thomas Brown 1:07:46
Hopefully it will take me ten years to write. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:48
Yeah. I hope not. All right. So before I get to my last question, is there anything you would like to add? 

Thomas Brown 1:07:57
Just thank you for the opportunity of having me on your show. This has been fun. You're a great guy. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:01
Oh, my. My pleasure. So usually answer or somebody, you know, what's the next big thing? But I know her already would. The next big thing is for you is the books. If you don't mind. Something we really didn't want that we didn't talk about. Tell us about your brother. 

Thomas Brown 1:08:21
Mark Brown. He was my older sibling of six years. We you know, we had a very interesting relationship. He was like, you know, I remember being a little. He introduced me to comic books. He entered. He really was like the reason why I loved movies. I'm a Star Wars nerd. I'm a marvel Comics geek. I don't care if the Marvel movies are bad and people think they're woke or whatever a reason that they have to complain about it. I will ride or die. I just love going into that world and seeing the cart, the comic book on the screen, and it reminds me of being a little kid. And I think that's the magic 

Rich Bennett 1:09:05
Right. 

Thomas Brown 1:09:05
of movies. 

You know, he would he would. He supported me. I remember being bullied by this one guy when I was in second grade and my brother, like, threatened him. And it was like the coolest thing. Like he was like my superhero. He got me into basketball. I lettered in basketball when I was in high school. We started to drift away. After I graduated from high school, my brother was hurt by a woman he was engaged to when he was in college. And it it did a number on him and he he told himself he was never going to be hurt by a woman again. And, you know, he took his own life. But I really say, like that is the symptom to the greater problem that plagued my brother and that I my brother was was I'll say that my brother was killed by toxic masculinity, by him accepting this narrative of what a man is supposed to be. And to him, like one of components of a man is how many women you can get and how many women you can conquer. And for the longest time, he had two primary girlfriends. One was a girl that graduated from high school with me and one was my boss. And I didn't want to have anything to do with his web of deception. You know, I didn't agree with it. I didn't think it was a very cool thing to do. But I actually like I looked at it, it was I would admit it was an impressive web that he weaved and using one. And again, like the power of language, he used language to weaponize those women's denial against them. And, you know, he did it for ten years. And after about ten years, they both got smart and they both left him. And that destroyed him because it was his entire existence was built on a illusionary foundation and he know how to recover it. And instead of just telling his friends that he was sad, you know, order to sell a lie, you got to believe a lie. And he believed the lie with those women too much that it, like, crippled him. And so he needed a new lie to sell. And it wasn't that he was sad. It wasn't that he was depressed. It wasn't that he made a mistake in how he was behaving. It was I'm sick, I'm physically sick. I have cancer. And that's why I'm acting the way that I am. And you know him and I didn't talk for the last for about three years. We would we would hang out at family functions. And it wasn't until like April when he said that he had cancer that him and I started to, like, rebuild our relationship. He didn't like me because I liked cannabis and I didn't like him because if, you know, he would create rumors about me because I wouldn't lie for him and I just don't like. So we just didn't talk to each other for like three years. If it wasn't a family, you know, interaction. And there's one night that I really remember he came over to my house or I was housesitting for somebody. He came over and he he had never smoked pot before. And I got him super baked. And we watched Empire Strikes Back together. And it's like he was watching it for the first time and he was and it was just fun to see him like, you know, watching something that him and I loved from childhood, But like, seeing it from from a different vantage point. And not only that, but sharing something with him that he used to demonize me for and and being okay. And so we had from like April till August of that year when he finally died, that we were rebuilding our relationship. So I'm always grateful for those four months that we had. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:06
Right. 

Thomas Brown 1:13:06
You know, of repairing what was broken for almost four years. 

But, you know, I have to tell you this one last thing and I have to go back to I got to go back to work, but. Mm. 

So my partner 

that's a self portrait of her right there. These are her paintings. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:30
Oh, wow. 

Thomas Brown 1:13:31
I met her. She was my. She was the. She was my contact at the art retreat center that we ended our bike ride at. We started at the Golden Gate Bridge. Golden Gate Bridge. There's a documentary called The Bridge about people that have gone there to end their lives. And then we ended at an art retreat center called the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors by artist Alex Gray. And the reason why we ended there is because he he. To him, art is his religion. And he saw that art has the ability to. Heal people. Not only the artists, but the audience. And so that was where a lot of my influence came for. Like art as a healing power. Mm hmm. The healing power of art, which is one of the the things that we talked about on the bike ride. But Sharon was my main contact at the Chapel of Sacred Mares. And we fell in love, like, immediately. And we dated each other for about a year and a half, 3000 miles away from each other. And she. 

Rich Bennett 1:14:38
Wow. 

Thomas Brown 1:14:39
She's living here now. And she's been she's. We've been with each other for 11 years now, living together. We've been dating. We are officials since November 27th of 2012. So I bring that up that, you know, if my brother hadn't died, especially in the way that he did. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:02
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 1:15:03
I wouldn't have the love of my life. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:06
Right. 

Thomas Brown 1:15:07
So I can't. I like when people ask, like, Would you ever want your brother back or do you miss your brother? And it's hard to answer that question because I wouldn't have something so amazing and beautiful unless I had that trauma and heartbreak before, because there's no reason for me to ride my bike where I rode it to ten years after my brother's death if he's still alive. So how do I meet this person that's separate from me? 3000 miles. You know, 

Rich Bennett 1:15:37
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 1:15:37
I wouldn't. If my brother was still alive, Sharon wouldn't be in my life. And I'm so grateful that I have her in my life, like she's my true partner in crime. 

So. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:50
Wow. 

Thomas Brown 1:15:51
And I bring that up, too, just to say that, like, you know, experiences, experience, if you're suffering a trauma, allow yourself to feel it. Allow yourself to go through the process of feeling it when you're strong enough to where you can step away and look at the experience ask, You're going to ask yourself the most important question. And that's why did this happen? And that's where you become a student of the experience rather than a victim of it. And you can learn and you can grow and you can expand your awareness and you can become a better person not only for yourself, but for the people that interact with you. So one horrible experience led me to a beautiful 110 years later. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:38
It's something I've always said. If you you know, when something bad happens, look at the positive part of it and you just. 

Thomas Brown 1:16:47
Yeah, You got to go through it. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:49
Dairy. 

Thomas Brown 1:16:49
Feel all the poopy feelings about it. But, you know, 

Rich Bennett 1:16:52
Yeah. 

Thomas Brown 1:16:53
you're eventually you'll get to a point like, okay, now what? What do I do with this? 

Rich Bennett 1:16:57
Right. 

Thomas Brown 1:16:58
And you learn from it. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:00
And I love the picture, too. 

Thomas Brown 1:17:02
Yeah, she's. She's great. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:03
I do. 

Thomas Brown 1:17:04
This one's already sold. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:05
Oh. 

Oh. 

Thomas Brown 1:17:08
Yeah, this one's already sold. She sold it. She just said it's going to be in a show next week, so. And then she's. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:14
Oh, nice. 

Thomas Brown 1:17:14
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:16
You got to put. Does she have a website 

Thomas Brown 1:17:18
Yeah. A chance to lose. A 

Rich Bennett 1:17:19
art? 

Thomas Brown 1:17:20
chance to win. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:22
All right. Spell the last name. 

Thomas Brown 1:17:25
Steal uto. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:28
I want to put that in the show notes to give you. 

Thomas Brown 1:17:30
Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. She's a beautiful artist. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:33
You got it, man. Thomas, thanks a lot. I cannot wait to talk to you again, brother. 

Thomas Brown 1:17:38
Right on. This has been fun. I appreciate you, Rich. You have a good one, man. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:41
You do. 

Thomas Brown 1:17:43
All right. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:44
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoy today's episode and learn something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversations with Rich Bennett. Com for updates, giveaways and more. Until next time, take care. Be kind and keep the conversations going.