Unlocking Personality Secrets with Eric Gee

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning ten this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we shared laughs, tears and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next ten years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios. Harford County Living presents conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Today, I'm going to get kind. 

No, no, no. The truth is. 

Rich Bennett 1:02
Thanks for joining the conversation where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. I'm your host, Rich Bennett. Today, we're diving into the fascinating world of person finality with G. Author of The Power of Personality. Eric is a seasoned educator and coach with over 20 years of experience and personality type in his work has helped thousands of people, students, parents and professionals better understand themselves and each other. In his book, Eric presents a fresh, innovative approach to personality theory that goes beyond the traditional systems we've all heard of making it more intuitive, practical and fun. You heard me right Write fun. From ancient philosophies to modern psychology. Eric has synthesized a method that's both deeply insightful and engaging, and I'm excited to explore how understanding our personality can lead to better relationships and a more fulfilling life, which is something we've talked about many times on here. First of all, welcome, Eric. And I got to tell you, I got to ask you right away, what is personality typing? 

Eric Gee 2:15
It means basically. Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited. 

Rich Bennett 2:18
Oh, my pleasure, man. 

Eric Gee 2:20
Yeah, it's you know, I hate to say personality typing in general, because sometimes people automatically sounds like, Oh, you're categorizing me, but really it's more just. 

Rich Bennett 2:28
Oh, 

Eric Gee 2:29
Patterns of behavior. I think I think 

Rich Bennett 2:31
okay. 

Eric Gee 2:31
we all know that we all look physically different than everybody in the world. But there are some people who look similar to us physically then more so than others. And I feel like that same way with personality. Like there are people who have similar personalities to you and you're going to share a lot of those things and it helps with communicating with each other and also helps understanding the differences in communication 

Rich Bennett 2:51
Right. 

Eric Gee 2:52
based on different personalities. 

Rich Bennett 2:54
I said before we get into the book. What in the world decide made you decide to get into actually, is it a field? What's the profession for that? 

Eric Gee 3:05
You know, I'll probably like social psychology. I like to think 

Rich Bennett 3:08
Okay, 

Eric Gee 3:08
of it as pop psychology. And I know people think like, Oh, pop, that's like, so unserious. But I'm like, like you said, it's all 

Rich Bennett 3:14
I 

Eric Gee 3:14
about 

Rich Bennett 3:14
like 

Eric Gee 3:14
fun, 

Rich Bennett 3:14
it. 

Eric Gee 3:15
right? Like, it's like 

Rich Bennett 3:15
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 3:15
people don't want to like I always say, like, when's the last time someone read a textbook for fun? No. You know, they read things that they connect with. And 

Rich Bennett 3:23
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 3:23
these are the things that are popular to us. There's a reason for it because we connect with it. So I think thinking of it in a fun, relatable way is great because we're in the end of the day, we're trying to understand people and, you know, meeting people and understanding them should be fun. 

Rich Bennett 3:36
Yeah. Huh. Okay. So with the book you've mentioned that personality type is more of a craft than a science. 

Eric Gee 3:44
Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 3:44
So can you elaborate on why you took this approach and how it shapes the way readers interact with your book? 

Eric Gee 3:50
Yeah. You know, my personality, my personality type is not particularly huge uncertainty. So I do think 

Rich Bennett 3:55
Mm 

Eric Gee 3:55
sometimes 

Rich Bennett 3:55
hmm. 

Eric Gee 3:56
we think of science, we think of like even though science itself by its nature, is not certain, it's only like 99% certain of things. 

Rich Bennett 4:02
Right. 

Eric Gee 4:03
But I like to mention it as a craft because it's a reminder that it's something that we learn and get better at with over time. It's kind of like cooking or playing a sport. You do it over and over and over again, and I think we meet so many people in our lives. And when you learn this methodology and you practice it over and over and over again with the people you meet. I think that's how you get better versus like reading a book on theory and then trying to apply it specifically, you know, like there's thousands of theories. 

Rich Bennett 4:29
So what inspired you to actually move beyond traditional systems like the Myers-Briggs type indicator and create the power of personality framework? 

Eric Gee 4:38
You know, I was talking with different people like, you know, for the last 20 years and I know a lot of people have they're like every system has its flaws. So I think a lot of times media people would say, well, I'm extroverted in this situation, but I'm introverted in this situation. And I felt that that was a good argument. I was like, Oh, okay. So, you know, there's definitely something to context. There has to be some 

Rich Bennett 4:56
Right. 

Eric Gee 4:56
other defining factor with us as people. And then obviously working with my education company, I own my education company for about a decade and we had about 1000 students a year. And so, you know, working my teachers and those students, I started to see different kinds of patterns of behavior. And that's when I started 

Rich Bennett 5:14
Right. 

Eric Gee 5:14
branching off from the traditional and Betye Enneagram approach. And started my own methodology. 

Rich Bennett 5:20
So I guess in a way, this this type of book would be good for people. And if I'm wrong, let me know. But people that are going through like anxiety and depression, anybody with like some type of mental illness. 

Eric Gee 5:33
Yeah, you know that. No, you're 100% correct. And oftentimes what I found is, like, people who are going through that anxiety are some of them, for lack of a better term, the minority personality types, because as you go through the book, you'll realize that, oh, like half the population kind of fit into one category or one group and 

Rich Bennett 5:50
Right. 

Eric Gee 5:50
share a similar value. But, you know, that leaves like the other half of the population. And there are certain types that only make up maybe 2% of the population. So I'd imagine like if you have a different value type than 98% of the people that you're encountering, you're going to feel quite a bit of anxiety and a little bit of, I guess, like you're an alien. And I think because like, you know, people do think there's something wrong with me. I have a mental disorder, you know, and. 

Rich Bennett 6:13
Right. 

Eric Gee 6:13
In fact, it's just, you know, it's okay to be themselves and to grow in their own way. 

Rich Bennett 6:18
Okay. So in your opinion, who is this book for? Because it's not a novel. 

Eric Gee 6:23
No, no, no, 

Rich Bennett 6:25
It's like a guidebook, in a way, right? 

Eric Gee 6:27
no. 

Rich Bennett 6:27
Or it's not a textbook. 

Eric Gee 6:29
No, I, I definitely want to say a textbook because that all sounds. Oh, blocks and blocks of boring paragraphs. No. 

Rich Bennett 6:36
But it's like a guide book, something you keep going back and reference in, right? 

Eric Gee 6:39
Yeah, it's basically a guidebook to help people understand the people in their lives that. So, you know, they always say don't say it's for everyone, because that could be every book. I would say if I had to specify, it would be someone who is really interested in learning more about themselves and the people around them, like in a way that's not superficial in the sense like, Oh, they're more organized, you know, and I'm more spontaneous. Like, it goes a little deeper than that. 

Rich Bennett 7:03
So in other words, it is for everybody. 

Eric Gee 7:04
Yeah. Yeah. Or you want to buy it. But. Yes. Yeah. Keep. We should keep learning about ourselves. Right. And other people. 

Rich Bennett 7:13
Exactly. You know, I never even thought about this, you know, until I looked at your book. It's like how many people really dive deep into understanding their own personality. 

Eric Gee 7:24
Yeah, that's one thing. You know, sometimes people tell me, even though they know personality typing a little bit, they'll say, Yeah, I'm this type. And I was just flat out say. 

Rich Bennett 7:31
Right. 

Eric Gee 7:32
And they'll be like, Wait, you're trying to tell me what personality I am? I know myself. I'm like, Well, do you? Because we often don't compare ourselves to other people. I had a friend who was like, Oh yeah, I'm so I use animals for my personality types, right? So you can imagine the difference between a peacock and an owl. And she was like, I'm an owl type. I'm like, You're not an owl, you're a peacock. And she's like, Why am I happy? God, am I? Because you're allowed, you know? And she's like, Well, I'm not allowed. And obviously she. 

Rich Bennett 7:57
mean, meanwhile, she's yelling this. 

Eric Gee 7:59
Yeah. And, you know, I'm dressed, like, in really bright colors, and I'm like, When's the last time you played a game of chess? She's like, chess. That's, like, so nerdy. I'm like, See, an owl personality type would never say that. That, like, right in their wheelhouse. I think generally we don't know ourselves. Sometimes we don't compare our. 

Rich Bennett 8:15
Uh huh. 

Eric Gee 8:16
Other people. And then once we start doing that, then we're like, oh, okay. Like, you know, there are very big differences between the. 

Rich Bennett 8:24
So why did you choose animals to symbolize the personality type, 

Eric Gee 8:27
I think animals won their fun. And 

Rich Bennett 8:29
Right. 

Eric Gee 8:29
too, I think they're very easy to remember, like, especially with my people. Like, yeah, I took this test and I got like four letter combos and I don't remember what it was. And with animals, like everyone knows, if you tell someone, Oh, that person's like a fox. I think everyone knows exactly what they're like. You know, a fox? 

Rich Bennett 8:45
Sly. 

Eric Gee 8:46
Yeah. There's Sly, there's shrewd, maybe not necessarily the most, like, theoretical or thought out, but in terms of just reacting like a James Bond type of figure. 

Rich Bennett 8:55
Right. 

Eric Gee 8:56
Ah, very cool. And just kind of go with the flow. I think that's so animals, I think just generate that kind of archetype in our mind. So that's. 

Rich Bennett 9:04
So where are the animals? 

Eric Gee 9:06
So 

Rich Bennett 9:06
Right? 

Eric Gee 9:06
we have. So I break them actually down to four major groups. And the groups are based on like what people value. And then within those four groups, there are four animals. So we got 16 animals in total. And I know people are like, Oh, my gosh, it's like meat. I'm like, Yeah, I mean, there's the same is the same number of personality types, but the way you get there is different. 

Rich Bennett 9:27
So. Well, we wish the four groups, first of 

Eric Gee 9:29
So 

Rich Bennett 9:29
all. 

Eric Gee 9:30
we got. I break it down like a medieval village. So that. 

Rich Bennett 9:33
Oh, 

Eric Gee 9:34
Understand, like why we have more of one group. So the first group are the gatherers and they make about half the population. And you'd imagine, like in any society, you need the most gatherers. We need people to protect the fields, like to gather the crops. You just need a lot of people 

Rich Bennett 9:49
right. 

Eric Gee 9:49
and gatherers. They prioritize safety and security. So like when you think of, like the general values that are that permeate society, like you want things to be safe. Everyone secure, comfortable like, like family, build a family, build a home. These are things that are very gatherer oriented, you know, because. 

Rich Bennett 10:07
So I guess that would be a line, right? 

Eric Gee 10:09
You know, there's no line in there. Just because I put lines that I think everybody would want to be a lion. But we do have like. So we. Stag. The stag would probably be. 

Rich Bennett 10:17
What? 

Eric Gee 10:18
Stagg because I think of, like, the crown of Atlan. 

Rich Bennett 10:21
Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. 

Eric Gee 10:24
And then we have beavers because beavers build dams. You know, So anything about dams for the community, right? The community, The animal. Exactly what beavers do. And then we have elephants and we have bears. And those are the four gatherer types. So elephants and bears. It's because that particular gatherer type, you know, gatherers as a whole focus on safety and security. There's a two of them that focus on family. So they get their feelings of safety and security through family and building a family. So that's why I use elephants and bears. 

Rich Bennett 10:55
Okay. 

Eric Gee 10:56
Elephants are herders, 

Rich Bennett 10:57
I. 

Eric Gee 10:57
so they're always like building their family. They're the type of person who always invites their kids, their friends or their kid's friends over for dinner. You know, you stay here for dinner. You know, we got we got a lot of room, you know. And then the bears would be like the protective type, right? And those would be together. 

Rich Bennett 11:13
Interesting. 

Eric Gee 11:14
Yeah. And they make about half the population, so. 

Rich Bennett 11:17
I take it after that you got the hunters, right? 

Eric Gee 11:19
Yes, 

Rich Bennett 11:19
Right. 

Eric Gee 11:19
we got the hunters. Exactly. And they make about a third of the population. And I generally think we do need a lot of hunters. But the thing is, hunting is dangerous. It's dangerous profession. It's a dangerous thing. 

Rich Bennett 11:29
Right. 

Eric Gee 11:29
So hunters die. So that's why we have only about a third of the population are hunters. 

Rich Bennett 11:35
Interesting. 

Eric Gee 11:35
Yeah. So in general, they will take jobs. I mean, we don't hunt that much anymore, and especially not as a profession, as a society, so. 

Rich Bennett 11:43
Right. 

Eric Gee 11:43
Mainly the professions are what you think, the ones that take chances that like like being in the SWAT team on the SWAT team, firefighters, athletes, fighter pilots, pilots in general. Anything. 

Rich Bennett 11:56
Right. 

Eric Gee 11:56
Anything where there is a degree of risk. That's generally where you're going to find the hunters, because instead of prioritizing safety and security, they prioritize excitement. So that's their big value is I want to feel the world. I want to feel the wind hitting my face as hard as possible. See everything, hear everything, you know, and you can see how that's a difference. Then prioritizing safety, security. 

Rich Bennett 12:20
I now now I'm very interested in what animals you put under that group. 

Eric Gee 12:25
Oh, so the foxes would be under there. Right. You think foxes are sly and they're shrewd. 

Rich Bennett 12:30
Hunters. Yeah. 

Eric Gee 12:31
Yeah. And so they are kind of like, you know, very sneaky in the way they do things. 

Rich Bennett 12:36
Yes. 

Eric Gee 12:36
And hunters in general, they like to hustle. And I always call Hunters hustlers and I look at that as a compliment. You know, they're just like, you know, I don't mind things. I don't have to have the 9 to 5 and I don't mind if the job I have, there's a degree of risk. But if I do well in this job, I better get rewarded. That's their mentality. 

Rich Bennett 12:52
Right. 

Eric Gee 12:53
Like, if I do well, I'm get rewarded. And if I fail, you know, I'm going to pick myself up and try again, I guess. So we got the foxes and we had the sharks and sharks. 

Rich Bennett 13:03
Oh. 

Eric Gee 13:04
Foxes and sharks are really similar, but the difference is foxes. I always say a fox will shoot a thousand bullets to hit one target. So Fox goes in to bar they. They're like, you know, I want to go home with someone tonight. I'm going to ask 20 people that I think are attractive. I might get rejected 19 times, but maybe that one time someone's going to say yes and hey, I'm going, oh, with someone you know where a shark will wait 1000 minutes to take one shot to hit one target. And that's. 

Rich Bennett 13:30
Oh, yeah. And then they're going to pounce on your ass. 

Eric Gee 13:32
Yes, You will be the one who. Just wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 

Rich Bennett 13:35
Uh huh. 

Eric Gee 13:36
And then they jump. And so they're very specific. They're very, for lack of a better term, narrow minded, I'd say focused, I guess narrow minded. 

Rich Bennett 13:43
Right. 

Eric Gee 13:44
The negative form of that. But they're very, very focused. So you can imagine like a sniper versus, you know, someone 

Rich Bennett 13:51
Oh, 

Eric Gee 13:51
kind 

Rich Bennett 13:51
yeah. 

Eric Gee 13:51
of like firing all over the place, you know. So those would be two of the hunters. And then on the other side, we have peacocks and butterflies. And I know peacocks and butterflies. We don't think of them as like hunting per say, 

Rich Bennett 14:04
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 14:04
but they do consume them. And so that side of the equation, those hunters get their excitement from consuming things like beauty, like beautiful. They want to eat everything they want, like teeth, everything, smell everything, hear everything. And the only difference would be peacocks are far more like outgoing. They're like the they are the model where the butterfly is the fashion designer. that butterfly is a lot more. 

Rich Bennett 14:29
Okay. 

Eric Gee 14:30
They go into their studio and write their beautiful song or, you know, fashion their beautiful clothing, that kind of thing. 

Rich Bennett 14:37
Like that. 

Eric Gee 14:38
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:39
And then after that, I guess, is the shamans. 

Eric Gee 14:43
Yeah. Then the two minority types, for lack of a better word, the shamans, they make about 8% of the population and they seek self-knowledge. And so they're the ones who are always reflecting on whether they're doing the right thing for their life. But they're also big on helping other people find self-knowledge as well. So when you think of a shaman, they're kind of the moral center of a village or spiritual center in the. 

Rich Bennett 15:06
Yeah, 

Eric Gee 15:07
And that's exactly what shamans take on or that role. They take that on in society, so they might be counselors. A lot of educators are there psychiatrists, spiritual leaders, people who account like AA. If people run AA meetings, people who want 

Rich Bennett 15:24
right. 

Eric Gee 15:24
to help people become better versions of themselves tend to be. 

Rich Bennett 15:27
Okay. 

Eric Gee 15:29
And then. 

Rich Bennett 15:30
Wow. 

Eric Gee 15:30
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 15:31
Think what in the world animal would fall under that? 

Eric Gee 15:34
Yeah, it ends up being much more symbolic when we get to the more abstract types. So we have like the dolphins and the pandas. And 

Rich Bennett 15:43
Oh, 

Eric Gee 15:43
so dolphins would be like the community organizer. Like. Like just the dolphin. I think we think of them as being sensitive and also leading and being like working as part of a team. Funny enough, dolphins hunt sharks really? Or they attack sharks and they 

Rich Bennett 15:57
yeah. 

Eric Gee 15:57
attack them with teamwork. And I think the sharks narrow focus hurts them, right, because they try to attack one dolphin. The other one comes in. 

Rich Bennett 16:05
They always say if you see dolphins that means they're sharks by. 

Eric Gee 16:08
Oh, is that. Ooh, that. 

Rich Bennett 16:10
That's all I've heard. 

Eric Gee 16:11
That's that's actually kind of scary because I always would love to. But I don't know. Swimming dolphins is going to be like. 

Rich Bennett 16:19
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 16:20
And 

Rich Bennett 16:20
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 16:21
yes, we have the pandas. And when I think of a panda, I think of like this, the spiritual counselor. There are a lot more introverted, reserved, I should say, than a dolphin. I always like to ask him, are you self-loathing? And a panda will always be like, Yeah, yeah, I am. Because they have to go through a lot of turmoil. Like all shamans, they're always, like, reevaluating their life. And I think that's one of the types that I really love working with and just finding out finding them when they're young. I work. I work with a lot of like adolescents and generally when I find a shaman student, it's it's really refreshing because they've been told different values throughout their whole life that might not necessarily fit the ones that they're feeling inside. So I can say, hey, that's you know, I actually have a student who she was asking or she's about to go to high school and she's like, I'm like, Oh, are you excited? And she's like, Yeah, I have certain things, but I don't want to grow up. She has I don't want to grow up. And like, you know what? I totally know how you feel and I know what you mean. And that's okay, because you don't have to grow up in the way that. You think you need to grow up? 

Rich Bennett 17:21
Right? Exactly. 

Eric Gee 17:22
There's a way that you can grow up in your own right, because I think in her mind growing up is quote unquote adulting, right? You know, and like having like a like a very linear path and like buying a house and doing all these things. Not to say that there's anything wrong with that, But, you know, she has different values and different things that are interesting to her. And I just let her know. Yeah, you can grow up on your own. 

Rich Bennett 17:41
Yeah. Nobody says you have to rush. Growing up. Even as you get older. Who says you can't be a be a kid old? Well, hell, look at me. I mean, here we are talking. I'm still playing Santa Claus. Believed in him when I was younger. Now I play him. I mean, come on. 

Eric Gee 18:01
Personality type, right? Because, you know, certain personality types act, quote unquote, younger, which is great. You know, like it's like that old soul mentality, you know, where you have like a more, I would say, is that innocence? It's more of a I don't know, I can't think of the word, but it's a certain kind of in Nietzsche. Nietzsche had a famous quote where he says, True maturity consists in regaining the seriousness one had as a child at play. And I love that quote because it's so applicable for shamans, because when they love something, they love it and they're really passionate about it. And it makes no difference whether it's the adult thing to do or not. 

Rich Bennett 18:34
Right. 

Eric Gee 18:35
I'm putting adult in air quotes. 

Rich Bennett 18:38
I see you have the sharks and the dolphins. No way. Sharks are at hunters, the dolphins and the pandas. 

Eric Gee 18:44
Yeah. And then on the other side, we got the baboons and the humpback whales. And I know people are like, Oh, my God. 

Rich Bennett 18:49
I'm sorry. The what's. 

Eric Gee 18:50
Yeah, baboons and humpback whales. And I know if you're like, wait, what does that have to do? Because shamans are about to thing shamans about people, and they're about principles like ethics. And 

Rich Bennett 19:02
Oh, 

Eric Gee 19:02
on that one side, the baboons and the humpback whales are much more. They prioritize principles a lot more than people. So 

Rich Bennett 19:10
right. 

Eric Gee 19:10
baboons, when I think of baboon, I think of like an advocate. I think of someone who is going to yell and scream and preach. Kind of like Rafiki in The Lion King. You know, where he's holding up, you know? And that's kind of what a baboon does. They're there. They are like the voice of the village. You know, they advocate. 

Rich Bennett 19:25
Makes sense now. Yeah, 

Eric Gee 19:26
Yeah. And the humpback whale is kind of like the soul. So they're kind of like the person who's sensitive, the daydreamer. They kind of sit off to the side. But they will take on a lot of the moral center of 

Rich Bennett 19:38
right. 

Eric Gee 19:38
whatever, you know, situation they're in. I often think of them as like, if you're working with students, it's really easy to find them. The baboon is the class clown and the humpback whale is the daydreamer who are like, you know, be daydreaming the whole time. So, 

Rich Bennett 19:52
Pulled it all? 

Eric Gee 19:53
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 19:53
Yup. 

Eric Gee 19:54
Yeah, that's. 

Rich Bennett 19:54
I. 

Eric Gee 19:55
Her. 

Rich Bennett 19:56
I wanted to take a stab at the next one. The next one is Smiths, which I figure are the builders, right? Like your blacksmith and so forth. 

Eric Gee 20:04
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 20:06
So I'm going to say the first animal I can think of under that would be like bees. 

Eric Gee 20:14
Your BS would have been a great one actually. Like. 

Rich Bennett 20:17
Damn, I was wrong. 

Eric Gee 20:19
You don't have to be in there. But I mean, it would probably fit under I probably could have used it as the spider personality type. In the same way, like bees build things like complex systems and they work within a system. And so we choose the spider for that. I chose that for the personality type because like spiders build webs. I would say the different. 

Rich Bennett 20:38
It makes sense, but I'm scared to death of spiders being. 

Eric Gee 20:41
You know what I would say? I tell this people who have spider personality types and they're like, Oh, spiders. That's cool, because they're like, Yeah, webs seem weak, but they're actually really strong. Like, like how powerful, How small they are for their density. They're really helpful. 

Rich Bennett 20:53
You want to hear something funny about that? I remember reading this reporter article years ago, and I once I saw I dug further because with me being a marine, I had to look into it. But for years, and I don't think it's happened yet, the military has been trying to figure out a way to make the best out of spider webs. Because the spider web is one of the strongest materials out there. The but but the the problem is the spiders keep beating each other. 

Eric Gee 21:25
They actually have spiders. They have like, legs, sweat spiders, sweatshops, or they have all. 

Rich Bennett 21:30
Exactly. But you think you think about I mean, they are very strong. 

Eric Gee 21:34
Oh, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 21:35
Spider webs. And if you walk through one, you're taking forever to. 

Eric Gee 21:40
Oh, yeah. And it's so the density, I mean, so like, there's not a whole lot of density there. But yeah, when you walk into it, you're like, oh gosh, like this is like, get this thing off of. 

Rich Bennett 21:47
And you're looking at everything that it catches. I mean, some of the spider, even though I'm scared to death of them, spiders are simply amazing. 

Eric Gee 21:56
Yeah. No. 

Rich Bennett 21:56
And I like the idea. It makes sense now, if you picking the spider of them, building the webs and everything. And I actually could also be under hunters as well. 

Eric Gee 22:06
Spiders. They do hunt. 

Rich Bennett 22:08
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 22:09
Yeah, like I think so when we think of Smiths, since their value is information, it's interesting because they're the builders like a blacksmith, but it's they don't necessarily always build like concrete tools. So it's more. 

Rich Bennett 22:23
Right. Okay. 

Eric Gee 22:24
They don't always use salt hunters of the best tool users, but Smiths are the best tool builders. So like, 

Rich Bennett 22:31
All 

Eric Gee 22:31
I think I'm like a hunter would be like James Bond, but Hugh would be the Smith, Right? 

Rich Bennett 22:38
right. 

Eric Gee 22:38
He's always like getting mad at Bond for, like, breaking his stuff. Right? And he's like, Oh, God, are you going to, like, break it again in my life? Like I'm an operator? You know, give me the tool. I use it, you know, like there's a great line from the movie Ronin where I think some guy was trying to talk to Robert De Niro. I know in Ronin they're all mercenaries. And Robert De Niro was like. 

Rich Bennett 22:54
Right. 

Eric Gee 22:55
Right. And the guys like trying to like they say, oh, what kind of guns do you use? Like, he's trying to, like, sound like, all fancy and, like, powerful and. De Niro Just the character's just like, I don't know. It's a tool. It's a toolbox. I use whatever tool works in whatever situation. And that's exactly what a shark would say sharks are like. I don't know, whatever tool fits the purpose, I'm not doing it. I'm not using this tool because it makes me feel special. I'm doing it because if it's this purpose and I use it for. 

Rich Bennett 23:19
Right? Exactly. 

Eric Gee 23:20
Yeah. So. 

Rich Bennett 23:21
So you know what? Even beavers could fit in that category, too. But I like them under the gatherers more. Because you're right, they're gathering all this stuff to help build it. 

Eric Gee 23:32
Right. 

Rich Bennett 23:33
And it's teamwork with beavers. 

Eric Gee 23:36
Yeah. Beavers. 

Rich Bennett 23:36
lot of times. 

Eric Gee 23:37
The funny thing is, beavers tend to be like in terms of profession, there are a lot of beavers in structural engineering. 

Rich Bennett 23:43
Yeah, 

Eric Gee 23:43
And civil engineering. So it's just a deferment. And that's why I break up the groups based on what we value. Because then you might find a beaver and a spider in the same company. But when they talk 

Rich Bennett 23:55
right, 

Eric Gee 23:55
to each other, they might not necessarily gel like because they have different values. One values. Information, the other values. Safety and security. So obviously, it makes sense for a structural engineer to want that because they're going to be the person who inspects that, make sure that everything fits regulations and know they're going to know the regulations. They're going to know like the practical way to build it. Whereas in the Smiths, since they're constantly gathering new information, they're going to be more 

Rich Bennett 24:21
Right. 

Eric Gee 24:21
the designer type. So they're going to take more chances. They don't really necessarily care about safety security as much as they are more about pushing the envelope further in terms of making innovation for society. And I think there is a there is a difference in mentality. I always say the difference between if you want to know the difference between like a Smith and maybe a gatherer who might think that they're a Smith, I always ask them, like, let's say they were experimenting on a drug and drug could like solve cancer. You know, would they experiment on themselves even though they might die? There's a risk to it. 

Rich Bennett 24:57
Ooh. 

Eric Gee 24:57
Smith. Not that a Smith will always say yes, but a Smith will think about it. They'll be like. They'll. They'll. The first thing they'll ask is like, are they? How? How many people is it going to help? Like, they'll think like. 

Rich Bennett 25:07
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 25:08
They don't mind taking the risk to their life like where they gather. Not to say that they want to take that risk, but they would be like, okay, well, is there a better way for me to do this where I don't have to put myself at risk? 

Rich Bennett 25:17
Right. 

Eric Gee 25:18
I want to talk to you. 

Rich Bennett 25:19
Wow. 

Eric Gee 25:19
And she was like, I would go into a burning building to save a book if I thought it was the last book of its kind in existence. I'm like, Wow, okay. Like, that 

Rich Bennett 25:28
Wow. 

Eric Gee 25:28
is a risk, you know, for just a piece of information, really. It's not a person a gather would go into that burning building to save a person, but they would like, 

Rich Bennett 25:36
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 25:36
forget about the book, you know? So that's a way to figure. 

Rich Bennett 25:42
Besides, Spider Wells is under Smith. 

Eric Gee 25:44
So on one side we have the spiders and we got the killer whales. And killer whales are exactly what you might think. They are the CEO types. They are like, like straight forward. If a spider will stab you in the back, a killer whale will stab you in the front. And they like information 

Rich Bennett 26:00
They're. 

Eric Gee 26:00
and like a spider. They like information to use. They're very pragmatic. So they're like, hey, let's get a lot of information and let's use it just like you'd imagine a CEO would. They'd be like, okay, how are we going to, like, use this to, like, build a company and like, help our company? Like if we can use it, let's do it. If not, let's like kind of put it to the wayside and like just focus on like actionable information. And then we have the other side. We have chimpanzees and owls, and they like information because they think information is cool. So they might not be the most pragmatic of types. They might just be like like you might ask a chimpanzee, Why did you design the car with a pinwheel on the back? And they're like, I don't know, it ought to be fun. I just I try it, you know, And they might have like 999 bad ideas out of a thousand, you know, But the one idea out of a thousand that might be pretty cool. It would be the chimpanzee might say, hey, you know, it's cool. Let's put a computer in a phone. Let's combine those two things and see if that works. Because, I mean, back when the iPhone came out, people were like, kind of so dumb. Why do we need a computer and a phone? That's why we have a laptop for. 

Rich Bennett 27:05
Now, look. 

Eric Gee 27:05
They were all everything was on there, you know, like, yeah, everyone's on their phone all the time. So I think chimpanzees are like that. And ALS, too. They're they're the masters of just spitballing and throwing random stuff out there and seeing if it sticks because they just think it's fun. 

Rich Bennett 27:19
They're also the only ones that know how how many licks it takes to get to the center of a touchy pop. 

Eric Gee 27:24
They would and I would definitely know that they would like practice. They would be like, I just got to know this. I don't care. I got. 

Rich Bennett 27:29
Oh. 

Eric Gee 27:30
Die from malnutrition. You know, like. I have 

Rich Bennett 27:34
Right. 

Eric Gee 27:34
a friend who's an owl and he's always says, like, because, you know, Einstein was an owl. So everyone's like, I'm like, Einstein, I'm brilliant. I'm an owl. And he's like, You don't want to be an owl. First off, an owl just because Einstein was a genius. Does it mean all owls are geniuses? It just means they know a lot of random information. So he's like, I know a lot about two things Massage therapy, because he's a massage therapist and fantasy football. Those are the two things I know a lot about. You know, that doesn't make me a genius. It makes me kind of nerdy, but that's I love it. So that's what I know, you know? 

Rich Bennett 28:02
And also a lot of those geniuses did not have common sense. And he either. 

Eric Gee 28:06
Right, Exactly. And that's what a gatherer would say about Smith generally a gatherer be like. He really smart in a lot of ways and really, really dumb. And that's the beauty of personality is I just want people to first play to their strengths and learn from their strengths and lean into them. And then once you know who you are, then you can start borrowing from other personality types because you know, other types are going to be better at things and. 

Rich Bennett 28:28
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 28:28
So it's like not it's not bad to borrow from what they do. Don't become them, but borrow from what they do. 

Rich Bennett 28:34
I really love the fact that you put the animals into this and tying it back to medieval times as. 

Because I'm hooked already. And when said medieval times the first time, I'm thinking the show Vikings, it's like, Oh, yeah, I got to I definitely got to look into all this. An animals who doesn't love animals. 

Eric Gee 28:57
Yeah. Everybody loves animals unless you get the animal. Some people don't like being the beaver. They get the kind of they're like, beaver sounds so boring. I'm like, Yeah, but you get to like. 

Rich Bennett 29:04
Yeah, right. 

Eric Gee 29:05
Dams and like, you know, build things and do maybe some of the work that people don't like doing which to. 

Rich Bennett 29:11
Beavers can be very vicious as well. 

Eric Gee 29:13
Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're vicious. You know, I sometimes will bears. The reason why we're bears is bears are, like the kindest people you'll ever meet. They are so kind and gentle and soft. But if you mess. They are close to you that they love. Like I once talked to Bear and I said like, well, like if someone was like, making fun of you or like, you know, like, insulting you, what would you do? She's like, Oh, that's okay. Like, I was just like, you know, whatever. Like, it's fine. You know, I just didn't turn the other cheek, right? I'm like, How about they're doing it to your kids? And she's like, Oh, wait a minute. That's different. Or what do you. 

Rich Bennett 29:46
That was my that was definitely my brother, without a doubt. 

Eric Gee 29:50
Oh, he was like that. Like, very quiet. But 

Rich Bennett 29:52
Oh. 

Eric Gee 29:52
he. Like you or someone. 

Rich Bennett 29:54
You mess if you mess with family or friends. You better run. 

Eric Gee 29:59
Yeah. It's so funny how gentle they are and then kind and then. Whoa! Holy. Like, you see a different side of them, you know, like. 

Rich Bennett 30:06
You're listening in on the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

Are you looking for a place where voices from all over the world come together? Well, look no further than the Chesapeake podcast. We've got podcasts in every genre, from comedy to health interviews to news. There's something for everyone. And for all you podcasters out there, it's free to join. Plus, we're more than just a network. We host monthly virtual networking meetings where you can connect, collaborate and grow with fellow creators. So sign up today at Chesapeake Podcast Network AECOM and get ready to join a global community. I think this those of you listening first, actually, where can they get the book? 

Eric Gee 30:56
You can get it. And they like to say anywhere you buy books. If you want to give Jeff Bezos your money, you can go on Amazon, but you can also find a Barnes Noble or Bookshop.org. You know, like everywhere, you can buy books. It's actually in German. Now to the German. 

Rich Bennett 31:10
How. 

Eric Gee 31:11
Yeah, the German my German publisher came out with it a few months ago or two months, September, so three months ago. And it's going to be out in Turkey. I believe in the. 

Rich Bennett 31:20
Wow. 

Eric Gee 31:21
Yeah. So if anyone wants to read it in German or Turkish, then you know you can do. 

Rich Bennett 31:25
And is this your first book? 

Eric Gee 31:27
This is my first one. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 31:29
Is it in audio form as well? 

Eric Gee 31:30
That is, that's the only thing that it's not in. And I'm. 

Rich Bennett 31:34
It could be a challenge, I guess. 

Eric Gee 31:36
Yeah. You know, I mean, my publisher just didn't do it. And so, you know, I actually have the audio right now, so I'm thinking about putting it into audio rights or audio rights into an audio book myself. So that's on the horizon. 

Rich Bennett 31:51
But don't you have diagrams in the book as well? 

Eric Gee 31:53
I do. So that is a little harder for people I can visualize. I mean, the diagrams are kind of nice and there's a little chart, I think a little shortcut chart that people like to use, that people can type personality type people using the little chart at the end. 

Rich Bennett 32:06
Oh. She. Eric, have you thought about creating a workbook to go with this? 

Eric Gee 32:11
That would be kind of a cool idea. Just like a like just a note, like writing, like a personal journey would be kind of fun. Like having, like how my. 

Rich Bennett 32:19
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 32:20
A finding myself and then just kind of going over all the the methodology mentioned in the book, but in a more, I guess, interactive sense. 

Rich Bennett 32:28
Right. 

Eric Gee 32:29
Yeah, that actually would be a good idea. My second book I was thinking about because everyone always asks is like the romantic angle. Like what? Who should I hook up with? That's the first thing he blasts. Like, okay, that's great. I'm glad. Think you telling me about all the stuff that's going to help me get a better job. But really, who should I date? Tell me who I used to date. So that might be this. 

Rich Bennett 32:47
You are. And the thing is, even if you tell them who they should be there still they have to read the book to figure out that personality type, right? 

Eric Gee 32:55
Right. You'd have to read the first one to figure out I wrote the book in a way to help people become the task, because a lot of personality books, they have a test in the beginning. And then the whole book is filled with prescriptions. But I'm always like, This is a test. And if you take the test and you take it wrong because it's not, it's cookie cutter, right? Then all the prescriptions you read are going to be wrong because you have the wrong diagnosis. And so for me, I want people to really get the whole methodology because then they can truly, truly understand the people around them. And then, you know, there are prescriptions within the book that can help. But the second book would be like more prescriptive, right? Based on purely on relationships. 

Rich Bennett 33:32
You know, you just mentioned a word there, prescriptions. And I'm wondering, 

because again, now I'm going back to mental health, but a lot of times like people with ADHD are put on prescriptions and all that. And you've seen medicine have changed, has changed the way people act. So can your personality type change? 

Eric Gee 33:56
You know, I don't believe that personality types, we don't change as much as we grow. And that's what I always say. We can change. We grow, you know, we grow into better versions of ourselves or worse versions of ourselves. Because I feel like if you have changed, either it means that you've actually discovered who you really were. Maybe you would. 

Rich Bennett 34:15
Right. 

Eric Gee 34:15
Thing that you weren't. And then things that revealed to yourself that said, oh, you know, I'm not a bear. I'm actually more of a panda. Or if you've changed. Like, really, it's in a bad way where, let's say your parents or your significant other has said, No, there's nothing wrong with you. You need to act this way. And then really, you just change your behavior. You really haven't changed yourself. And then that's not healthy, right? If you're acting in a way that's not true to yourself. So I do think we we do grow, though I would say puppies don't grow or puppies don't turn into cats. They grow into dogs. Right. And same with all the. 

Rich Bennett 34:47
That's a good way to put it. Yeah. 

Eric Gee 34:50
You know, like if you're I don't know what a baby spiders called, but if you're a baby spider, you're not going to grow into a killer. Well, you're going to grow into a bigger spider, know, a daddy, your mommy. 

Rich Bennett 34:57
baby spider. 

Eric Gee 35:00
I couldn't. I couldn't think of what a baby spiders got. 

Rich Bennett 35:03
How long does it how long would it take somebody like me to figure out how to figure out some nice personality type? 

Eric Gee 35:14
Oh, I think I think you learn pretty quickly. Ideally, if you when you read the book, it's supposed to help you kind of tap into all the people you've already met in your life. I mean, we have so much everyone 

Rich Bennett 35:24
Right. 

Eric Gee 35:24
has all this, like knowledge stored in our brains about the people we've met, you know, like things that might we might not have noticed before. But when you, like, figure, when you read like a portion of the book and say, Oh, oh, that's interesting. Oh, you know, I know someone who does that. And then you start going, oh, you start connecting all the dots of information that you have for everyone. 

Rich Bennett 35:43
Okay. 

Eric Gee 35:43
And yeah, so it's, it's actually B really quickly. And the idea is to not just tell people, oh, do this, do this, do this, but it's to tap into the intuition that's already within all of us based on our own experiences with people. And once we do that, then we start seeing patterns of behavior and then, you know, like the first thing that people do, especially parents when they read it, like immediately they're like, Oh, no wonder why I like this kid more than this kid. And I always say, I know parents. Parents love their kids equally. I get it. Parents love their kids equally. Mom loved my sister and me and my brother equally. But we all know who she likes the most. You know, like, that's. It's my younger brother, you know, like, that's just the way it goes. And it's mainly personality. It's just, you know. 

Rich Bennett 36:25
Right. 

Eric Gee 36:26
But then they read this like, Oh, that's why my kid. That's why we're always arguing. But that's a good thing, right? Because they're like, okay, like, there's nothing wrong with them. It just means we're different, that's all. 

Rich Bennett 36:36
I think this could also come in handy for fathers that have daughters. That was the understand that boy that wants to date his daughter first. 

Eric Gee 36:46
Oh yeah that's, that's, that's true. Very. And also it's like, you know, it's funny. I always think my, my older sister. So I have one older sibling. It's it's a girl. It's my sister and she's a hunter. And it's interesting because, you know, like, it took a lot of bravery, you know, for my dad, because my my dad's like I told my dad once, I'm like, why don't you just let Tracy do whatever she wants? And he's like, I don't know. It's because it's what she likes and it's because Hunter's like excitement. So if you try. They want their freedom. So we tried to clamp down and I'd imagine, like a lot of dads, sometimes their daughters, depending on if you have a gatherer dad with a hunter daughter, that's a scary situation because I gather dad's like, No, no, no. You can't be like going out and seeing all these people. You got to like, you know, we. 

Rich Bennett 37:28
Right. 

Eric Gee 37:29
But the hunter needs that because otherwise if you try to grab them, it's like trying to grab onto sand. It's just going to slip through your fingers. And I remember if I was my this because she does what she wants. And, you know, my sister was always super independent like hunters are. And so that freedom was good because then they need that freedom to explore. Because if you try to clamp down, then they're not going to get the strength that they need when they get older and the stakes get higher. 

Rich Bennett 37:52
So what personality type are you? 

Eric Gee 37:54
I am, actually. I'm a baboon. Not the most. I'm a baboon. Not the most flattering. I'm a shaman. And the baboon. So any one time anyone's like, Oh, my animal don't like my animal. Hey, man, I'm a baboon. That's not a very. People always think of us like exposing our butts 

Rich Bennett 38:08
Right. 

Eric Gee 38:08
and stuff, which we don't do. Just actually baboons do that, right, you know? But, you know, like, we are loud in terms of when we believe in something, we're very, like, animated and we preach, for lack of a better word. But I always like to say that's the difference. And that's why I don't totally believe in extra virgin introversion because like a peacock, their virgin would be the easiest would be to dance on a table and do body shots in Cabo. That's their version of Extra Virgin, right? Whereas a baboons virgin is more like giving a TEDTalk on the beauty of recycling. You know, like it's something. 

Rich Bennett 38:41
Right. 

Eric Gee 38:41
Those are very different things. And if you reverse them, they would not like the opposite situation. Like they wouldn't do that, you know, like a peacock. Wouldn't want to give a TED talk on that and I would not want to dance on the table and do body shots. Probably the not so big difference. 

Rich Bennett 38:56
This book sounds like it'd be a lot of fun to read and 

Eric Gee 39:00
Yeah, I try to use as much. I do use a lot of pop culture references to so people 

Rich Bennett 39:03
write. 

Eric Gee 39:04
can get it and you know, a lot of personal ones anecdotes anecdotes from my my time teaching as well. Yeah it's supposed to be it's supposed to be fun, right? We have to like, I'm understanding people's fun. People are inherently funny in a lot of ways, you know, so. 

Rich Bennett 39:18
You don't want people getting bored when they're reading your book. 

Eric Gee 39:21
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 39:21
You can. One of the things that I've always said is a sign of either a bad book or a tired person is when you see somebody read a book and they fall asleep. 

Eric Gee 39:34
Yeah. 

I mean, I've actually I have sleeping problems, right? Like sometimes I used to struggle with that insomnia. And then that was one of the recommendations. Because you're good how to how it helps sleep. And it's like read a book. I'm like, Wait, since you not fall asleep, when you fall asleep when you're reading book, I remember as a kid, like, I couldn't wait as I would read, I would stay up super late because I would keep reading, you know, the next chapter. 

Rich Bennett 39:55
Right. 

Eric Gee 39:56
A post like, you know, when I'm supposed to go to bed and I just read the whole book, you know, like that you should keep It's a page turner. 

Rich Bennett 40:03
If you get so wrapped up into a book, it's not going to put you. 

Eric Gee 40:07
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 40:08
But if you and I've seen this has happened to me before, I'll be reading a book. Then somehow or another I'm two pages further and I don't even remember what happened. It's either dozed off or, you know, I just it did grab my attention anymore. You know, but there's other books. I sat there and went to bed, picked up a book I started reading. I could tell if it's a good book, if all of a sudden, after I'm reading it for a while, I'll stop. Put my book marking, close it. Ready to continue the next day. They it to put me to sleep, you know. So how long would it take? Some. Let's say you how long would it take you to determine what type of what personality type I am. 

Eric Gee 40:53
You know, it's always hard to say timing wise. Like I generally do it pretty quickly. I say that, but then I put my putting myself on the spot because I know you're going to ask me what type you are. But I actually already have a guess. 

Rich Bennett 41:05
Oh, okay. 

Eric Gee 41:07
I'll sometimes ask confirmation questions like one time someone asked me, Oh, what personality I am I. And then I think the question I asked her was, Do you ever do you like going to wine tasting? Do you like wine tasting? And she was like, I love big capital letters. I love wine tasting. Okay. I know what you are. Just. I really just one question. I'm like, Well, no, I have kind of an idea. And then I generally ask. Firm and based on people's responses, like it's sometimes not even the answer, right? It's not like the yes or no. It's how do you say it like or how. Working with students. One of the ways that I would figure out whether a student was a gatherer or not is offhandedly I would just like kind of like make jokes at my mom's expense, you know? And because I would like to see the reaction and generally of the reaction was a little bit of fear for me, then that's generally a gather reaction because in their mind, Oh, you're supposed to make fun of your parents, especially your mom. I mean, that does make fun of like that's what goes on their head. And I can see that like and then I'm like, oh, I think they might be a gather, you know, versus like, maybe a hunter probably would laugh. They would think like, oh, because hunters are mischievous, right? So they'd be like, Oh, you know, like, I want to make fun of my parents, too. Like, that's, you know, they like that idea of that. So, you know, there's other types that are mischievous. So then I start figuring out based on that. So it's all the reaction, right? 

Rich Bennett 42:19
Go for it, man. 

Eric Gee 42:21
So let me ask one question. One question. 

So. Oh, so you in the in the Marines. How did you like the structure? 

Rich Bennett 42:33
The structure of the Marine Corps when I was in. I loved it because it taught me a lot. 

Eric Gee 42:38
Do you feel like you grew a lot within the. 

Rich Bennett 42:40
Oh, my God. Yes. Yes, I learned so much about respect and discipline. 

And especially because nowadays it's something I believe is lacking. But yeah, I it was hard. I missed home, but I've always said I would do it over again. 

Eric Gee 43:02
Okay. And okay, so I this and now I mean, I was going to guess I mean between a couple so you might be salmon or gatherer and it's funny if I figure out which one of those two, then I would find a place, you and one of the others. Because if you were a shaman, you'd be the dolphin, I think, because dolphins. 

Rich Bennett 43:20
Okay. 

Eric Gee 43:20
Dolphins love structure. They like it. Generally, their first thought is how am I going to grow within this structure and become a better person and find out more about 

Rich Bennett 43:28
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 43:29
my. So that was my first guess would be a dolphin. The only difference would be like a dolphin would see self-knowledge, obviously, and then gather or seek safety and security. And both you know, we all see both. But really, there's always there's always been one choice that we have, you know? 

Rich Bennett 43:45
Right. 

Eric Gee 43:46
That would be my guess would be a dolphin. 

Rich Bennett 43:49
Okay. I like that. 

Eric Gee 43:51
But if not, I would say like. 

Rich Bennett 43:52
I'm just glad you didn't say it, Spider. 

Eric Gee 43:54
No, no spiders. You definitely don't come up with a spider. Also like Arsenal, baby son Theo. And that's one thing that you just learn by practice and like, 

Rich Bennett 44:02
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 44:02
everyone comes off a certain way and I don't mean this in any. I love spider people and they're some of my favorite personality types, but they'll come off a little colder. They come off cold and serious and a little scary, you know, because of their cold. Oh, you know who's a great example would be Al Pacino. What's his name in Godfather? Al Pacino's character, Michael Corleone, is. 

Rich Bennett 44:24
Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

Eric Gee 44:25
Granted, I shouldn't say that because he's kind of a bad guy. But you. But you know how that feeling we get even when he's young and he's a young and like, he's still, like, very methodical and kind of cold, even as he's talking to like Diane Keaton in the first scene, we see him. He's very like, 

Rich Bennett 44:39
Mm. 

Eric Gee 44:40
matter of fact. But you don't come off that way. You come out very warm and dolphins come off as very warm and friendly. So I was going to say, if not a dolphin, maybe like an elephant, which is a gather, they also come off as very warm and friendly. So. 

Rich Bennett 44:52
Come on, now. I've been losing weight. 

Eric Gee 44:55
You know, that's either from when I say you're an elephant. Wait, are you saying like I'm big? Am I? No, it's just, you know, like. You know, like you bring people in. a herder. 

Rich Bennett 45:05
I do love doing that, though. 

Eric Gee 45:07
Bringing like bringing people into the fold. 

Rich Bennett 45:10
Yeah, which I think is probably one of the reasons I've been in the Lions Club for so long. 

Eric Gee 45:14
Oh, okay. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:16
Yeah, I just. I just love getting groups of people together and. Which is weird because I really never was that way. 

Eric Gee 45:24
Were. 

Rich Bennett 45:24
And now, even with podcasting, you know, I started a podcast network, and I'm going to get groups of us together to learn from each other. 

Eric Gee 45:31
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:32
You know, I. 

Eric Gee 45:34
I was going to say that was another reason why I was guessing dolphin, because the type of podcast you have in podcast in general, all about ideas and sharing ideas. 

Rich Bennett 45:42
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 45:43
That's a very abstract thing and it's a very common thing to do. 

Rich Bennett 45:47
Okay, so those of you listening, make sure you get this book, The Power of Personality, Unlock the secrets to understanding everyone in your life, including yourself, after you read it. 

don't get rid of it because it's a good book to keep going back to leave a full review and then buy it for somebody else and tell that person to buy it for somebody else and so forth and so forth and so forth. So Eric, explain to me, what is the utopia Project? 

Eric Gee 46:18
So the Utopia Project was actually a team about before the book I had started a website kind of spreading the word on my personality type methodology. And so the website's still there. You can actually take a test to figure out what animal you are. I always put the disclaimer. 

Rich Bennett 46:32
Oh. 

Eric Gee 46:33
It's just a test. Tests and tests are cooking letter. So it's I would always read the portrait afterwards. And if you really of course, like you said, you really want to truly get an accurate read, you should buy the book. And I'm not of course I'm trying to sell the book, but it's it's is better to get that. But you can go on the site and take a test It's the Utopia project dot com. And there are articles in the site where people of different personality types will say, Oh, this is my experience being a fox or this my experience. 

Rich Bennett 46:59
Right. 

Eric Gee 47:01
And from that I started a creative space in Los Angeles where I am, where, you know, we do events and it's all part of the same kind of animal for lack of a better word, where we're just trying to help people like find themselves and give that creative space, gives people a space for people to work on. 

Rich Bennett 47:18
Yeah. Because I know she got the. The. The Utopia Project. Social Creative Creative University. Have you considered making a non-profit or is it actually a business? 

Eric Gee 47:32
You know, 

Rich Bennett 47:33
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 47:33
I mean, I would consider that because for me, it's it is like the same idea of a non-profit in that really I just have fun with it. Like, I love spreading the word. So that would be definitely a consideration. I mean, the university is definitely harder because universities more so I do have clients and I take on private clients through my. 

Rich Bennett 47:50
Right. 

Eric Gee 47:51
And that probably would not be a nonprofit, but. 

Rich Bennett 47:55
Oh, that's. Yeah, 

Eric Gee 47:56
So I wonder 

Rich Bennett 47:57
but. 

Eric Gee 47:57
how that would work out. Like in terms of the technical, I'm not a a Bieber would know that actually, because a beaver would know all about rules. But I unfortunately am not one so. 

Rich Bennett 48:06
Well, I'm thinking of the social aspect part of it, because I could see that if you somehow or another could branch that all throughout the country, that maybe even international, because when you get people together, that it helps. 

Eric Gee 48:22
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 48:22
And I think something like this, getting people together to talk about different personality types. God, it could be so much fun. 

Eric Gee 48:29
Oh, yeah, that's it. That's where the book was birthed. Actually, I was part of. 

Rich Bennett 48:33
Oh, really? 

Eric Gee 48:34
was part of a writer's group because, you know, I, I shuttered my education company because I wanted to start writing creatively again. Because funny enough, my academic background is in screenwriting. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to do my scripts again. I'm going to try to start selling my scripts. And I joined a writers group. And so I was writing a pilot on a TV pilot on like a sex addict or rabbit. And that's what you know, that's what I was working on. 

Rich Bennett 48:56
On What? 

Eric Gee 48:57
Yeah, it's true. 0 seconds if you have it. And, you know, we go to the bar after we go in this, right? Be in this writing group. And, you know, I brought up the personality types and the animals, and people just started having so much fun talking about what was my animal. And then you started talking about it and a friend of mine, she's like, You should write a book on this. And I was like, No, I'm going to keep working on this pilot. And so then she took the ideas and put it in the television show that she was working on, which is on Apple TV, which I think I'm sure it's a pretty big show called Mythic Quest. So in one episode you wrote she people were taking a test and they figured out what animal they were. And so once she did that, then I was like, okay, I guess I should write a book. so I did. And that was like a few years ago, and it was published this year. 

Rich Bennett 49:41
I think this could actually could turn that into a script somehow. 

Eric Gee 49:48
Yeah. I mean, I mean, they've always. I think there is a book series called Divergent that kind of did 

Rich Bennett 49:53
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 49:54
the whole like categorization thing. But of course they did it. Like looking at in a bad way because you can always do like a dystopian kind of angle on this, right. Where like, Oh, you're plugging people and trying to force them to be this way, which is one of the arguments that people have against personality. Typing is like, Oh, you're just like, you're. It becomes almost confirmation bias where you're saying, oh, this person's good at this. So they're only going to do that. And I'm always like, well, no. Like, I think that's why I'm more open about it. And I'm always like. Craft Not a science. Like, you're constantly I just want people to constantly work on finding themselves. Oftentimes, I will say that the people who get mad about the categories Asian, they also categorize too. They're like, Oh, these are dumb categories. But then they end up saying, Oh yeah, but that person's like type A and like, that's also a category. And it's also very a simplistic one. So really you're only good with the categories that you know versus the ones that you don't. So generally. 

Rich Bennett 50:44
All. 

Eric Gee 50:45
People do. 

Rich Bennett 50:46
I knew this book would be great for my daughter because she loves to try to figure out people's personality to. 

Eric Gee 50:52
Oh, no. Well, she might be a shaman, too, you know, like, she sounds like anyone who does that is like they love personality types and they love to, like, figure out other peoples. Definitely sounds like a shaman. 

Rich Bennett 51:03
Yeah, I. Yeah, I'm definitely going. Hey. Might be a good birthday present. 

Eric Gee 51:09
Or Christmas? Christmas. Is there 

Rich Bennett 51:11
Yeah. Yeah that's. Yeah. Yeah I think. I think Im going to have to get this for her. So something has been bugging me the whole time that we've been recording and it's like, Oh God, I'm going to have to ask him. So those of you listening, Eric and I can see each other 

and there's something that's been behind him this whole time as I got to, got to ask him, So are you a musician? Musician? 

Eric Gee 51:38
You know, I, I Yes, Yes, I guess I hazing you. 

Rich Bennett 51:42
Okay. 

Eric Gee 51:43
Some musicians say I play every day and I grew up playing an instrument and so I do play a bunch of different instruments. I will say I'm probably very good at only one instrument and the others I dabble. 

Rich Bennett 51:56
Let me get. You're only going to guitar. 

Eric Gee 51:58
No, I'm actually. I grew up playing the piano, and so. 

Rich Bennett 52:01
Oh, so that's what the big thing is behind your piano. 

Eric Gee 52:03
Yeah, it's. Yeah, that's. 

Rich Bennett 52:05
Oh, okay. 

Eric Gee 52:06
Yeah, that is. Yeah, that's piano. I grew up actually playing and I, you know, it's one of those things where 

Rich Bennett 52:12
Wow. 

Eric Gee 52:12
I it's priceless to me because, you know, 

Rich Bennett 52:15
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 52:15
you can't replace an instrument like you just get used to it, You get used to the feel. But I do. I love playing, I love playing guitar. I have, I think behind me a bass guitar, an acoustic. And then. 

Rich Bennett 52:25
Huh? 

Eric Gee 52:26
But I definitely love the bass. The bass is quite fun to play, so. 

Rich Bennett 52:31
Really? 

Eric Gee 52:32
Yeah. You know, I like the rhythm of it and, you know, it's kind of fun. And I growing up playing the piano. An interesting thing is, you know, so I would play. I recently started playing with people just like jamming and stuff, and I realize how terrible I am at that because playing the piano, you're just playing by yourself, right? You're just playing a piece 

Rich Bennett 52:48
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 52:48
that it's very self-contained. And I'm like, Well, I don't really know what to do when other people are playing. What am I exactly? Am I supposed to, like, play the same note? And so it made me feel really dumb. And I was like, So then I started playing the bass and I was like, Oh, this is kind of fun because we're kind of working as a team in tandem. And it took a while to get used to, but I kind of enjoy it, actually. 

Rich Bennett 53:08
As a last instrument I played and then arthritis settled in. 

Eric Gee 53:12
Oh. 

Rich Bennett 53:12
Stop. Yeah. And now my son. Well, my son plays guitar, keyboard, bass, drums. He can play everything. 

Eric Gee 53:20
Oh, nice. 

Rich Bennett 53:21
So him and my daughter got me a bass guitar years ago and I wanted to pick it back up. But now my daughter wants to play bass. So two years ago for Christmas, I got a baby, Sam, for her. She hasn't picked a thing up yet. 

Eric Gee 53:36
You know, I already I already know an animal type. She is in my mind. 

Rich Bennett 53:41
What's that? 

Eric Gee 53:42
Well, if she's a shaman, like I said, and she is the type of person who and I'm saying this as a flaw because it was as a baboon, it was also my flaw that, you know, baboons and humpback whales, we have a tendency to be like. Well, that sounds fun. I'd love to do that. And then we don't always follow through, you know, in completing that. Eventually we will, but sometimes we. 

Rich Bennett 54:02
May take some time. 

Eric Gee 54:03
Yeah, we might have a lot of projects up in the air and, you know, but knowing that is great and that's why person that is great too, is knowing that that is a flaw of mine. I consciously have to go, okay, I need to make sure to just put my mindset to finish this, which and also borrow certain things from gatherers because gatherers are great of finishing the things they start. So I'll borrow some of the techniques that let's say my brother, who's a beaver, would use because like I know he's really good and conscientious about and a. 

Rich Bennett 54:29
Right. 

Eric Gee 54:30
So. 

Rich Bennett 54:31
That's definitely one of my goals for 2025, is to pick it back up and start playing again. Because as a father, one of the things I would love to do is just jam with my son. 

Eric Gee 54:40
Oh, yeah, that would work. 

Rich Bennett 54:42
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 54:42
And also. Well, I don't know if you do double bass, but, you know, when your daughter picks them, 

Rich Bennett 54:46
Oh. 

Eric Gee 54:46
then you guys can have like a three. What did they. I forgot. It's called a three person band and not a quartet. 

Rich Bennett 54:53
trio. 

Eric Gee 54:54
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 54:54
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 54:56
Green Day. I don't know. I'm forgetting it in the. 

Rich Bennett 54:58
I'll let her play the bass and I'll pick up the drums again. 

Eric Gee 55:00
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 55:01
That was the first instrument I played. So. 

Eric Gee 55:03
I feel like I don't I don't know about with arthritis, with the drums be easier or harder because you're not using your finger. 

Rich Bennett 55:10
You know what? In all honesty, the arthritis isn't as bad as it was. 

Eric Gee 55:14
Oh, great. 

Rich Bennett 55:15
Ever since I started going to a chiropractor. It's been amazing. So it's nowhere near as bad. Well, then again, I haven't really picked But I mean, no, I think I'd be fine. Only one way to find out. 

Eric Gee 55:30
Well, drums is awesome. I love playing with someone who can play the drums because you notice like the amount. It just gives. I said, Wow, that's really powerful. Like, it just makes you feel as part of a band when you get the percussion behind you. You know? 

Rich Bennett 55:42
Well, I know my wife would not. Want a drum set in here, but. What's a thing called the Concorde ever? You know, the box that they sit on. 

Eric Gee 55:50
Oh. 

Rich Bennett 55:52
I forget the name. So it's a box. A lot of drummers will use, like if they're doing small things they sit on and you get all the different sounds of the drum from it. 

Eric Gee 56:03
Wow. It's like, oh, and it's not as like, obviously it's not as percussive. It just gives a sound. 

Rich Bennett 56:08
No, it does. It's a use your. I want to see a cock. Or is that a shell? I can't remember. Or even electronic drums. They don't take up as much room. 

Eric Gee 56:19
Yeah, that's. 

Rich Bennett 56:19
If I bring a drum set in here, my wife would kill. 

Eric Gee 56:23
It's funny. I used to a long time ago, I used to host a radio show, like an Internet radio show. So which I guess would be a podcast now, but this is like in the mid-aughts and we would. 

Rich Bennett 56:31
Right. 

Eric Gee 56:32
But the studio space was so small and he couldn't even plug in to the board. So bands that had like drummers, they would bring like one single drum and a snare and just kind of go, you know? Or maybe just a bit of light percussion. We since we couldn't plug in, someone brought up a stand up bass, which is pretty cool. 

Rich Bennett 56:49
Oh. 

Eric Gee 56:50
And yeah, it was like it was very fun, though, because obviously, you know, like live music and nothing beats live music. 

Rich Bennett 56:56
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 56:56
Play their stuff. But it was just funny the way that musicians can adjust based on our restrictions. 

Rich Bennett 57:03
God, I'm going to pick it all back. Thanks, Harry. Now, you got me doing more stuff. 

So before I get to my last question, is there anything you would like to add, including the website so people know where to find you? 

Eric Gee 57:15
Oh, I could. I could drop that. So you can take the test at Utopia Project. Com And that's why you like YouTube. Utopia project com. My life coaching and the all the other stuff you can find on Project Utopia dot com. And I'm on Instagram. On the power of personality that's. The book title and also my Instagram title. I'm not a huge on social media, but you know, I'll post like, you know, reels if I can because I want to sound younger. Yeah, I posted real. I'm a Gen Z year. 

Rich Bennett 57:46
I'm still trying to get used to that. 

Tick tock. My son's a master at that. I mean, he's making money off it and everything. I still cannot figure it out. 

Eric Gee 57:56
Aussie, Aussie, a content creator or a. 

Rich Bennett 57:59
Yeah, he posts stupid stuff. 

Eric Gee 58:01
Wow. 

Rich Bennett 58:02
Are they paying for? 

Eric Gee 58:03
I totally know. I actually know what animal he is. Or at least definitely the conduit. The hunter to me will also the meat, the multiple instruments and things like that. 

Rich Bennett 58:11
Yeah. 

Eric Gee 58:11
He just sounds like he sounds like a hustler. That's good. You know, he has, like, put this content out, he tries it, and if it doesn't work, then try something else. And, know. 

Rich Bennett 58:19
Yeah, he does do that, that's for sure. 

Eric Gee 58:22
One of the hunters for sure. 

Rich Bennett 58:24
Yeah. So what is the next big thing for energy? 

Eric Gee 58:29
You know, that's a good question. I think I'm thinking about starting a podcast to do some research on my second book on relationships. So I would interview people, they would tell what type they are, and then, you know, we'd ask relationship questions like that people would be interested in so that we start seeing patterns of behavior. 

Rich Bennett 58:48
Yeah, I love that. Well, you know what's going to happen if you do it? No, not if. When you start that, got to let me know. 

Eric Gee 58:56
Yeah. No, you got to come on and then you'll know exactly what. 

Rich Bennett 58:58
On this day. I wanted to. Come on. 

Eric Gee 59:00
Oh, I think you can come on and answer questions about like, you know why? 

Rich Bennett 59:04
If you wanted me to, I would, but no one did. So I started a podcast network to help other podcasters. 

Eric Gee 59:10
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 59:12
Especially independent podcasters, because more exposure you get, that means the more your podcast is going to grow and it's free. I don't even charge anybody for. 

Eric Gee 59:21
That's awesome. 

Rich Bennett 59:22
Yeah, I just. I like to help other people out. 

Eric Gee 59:26
Oh yeah, I would love to join that network, especially because I haven't started one podcasting now. So hopefully you'll start playing the drums and I will have an impetus to just get this going as fast as I can. 

Rich Bennett 59:38
Says, Good. If you need help with you have any questions, feel free to contact me. 

Eric Gee 59:42
Oh, yeah. I will. 

Rich Bennett 59:45
I says. Good. Thanks, Eric. Take care. 

Eric Gee 59:47
To. 

Rich Bennett 59:49
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoy today's episode and learn something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversations with Rich Bennett. Com for updates, giveaways and more. Until next time, take care. Be kind and keep the conversations going.