Voices of Hope: The Power of Harm Reduction in Recovery

Rich Bennett 0:00
So Wendy and I are sitting here. We are joined by Aaron and the social media star Chris for Voices of Hope. We're good. They've been on the podcast. Well, they haven't been on the podcast, but Voices of Hope was a while ago for a roundtable that we did with  Rage Against Addiction. I knew there was somebody else I can't remember. But anyways, I'll put links in the show notes to that episode as well, and I'm going to turn it over 

to me. 

Wendy Beck 0:35
I'm going to take the whole Oscars. 

Rich Bennett 0:36
I was going to say I was going to try to get myself on your good graces and say the queen of. 

Wendy Beck 0:43
Radio talk podcasting. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 0:46
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 0:46
Well, I'll. 

Rich Bennett 0:47
Turn it over to Wendy. 

Wendy Beck 0:49
Hey, guys. 

Chris Rives 0:50
Hey. 

Wendy Beck 0:50
Hey, Wendy. I know both of you from our, I guess, dealings in the community when it comes to addiction. And I'm also a board member of Voices of Hope, even though I haven't been as active lately. So I'm kind of like apologizing for that here in this in your presence. I'm sorry. But I would love to hear more about what your organization stands for, because there's a lot of nonprofit organizations in the community, in Harper County and in Cecil County that deal with things addiction. And obviously, that's why we're here today. But you guys are very unique in when I say that, you know, you do things that not a lot of the other organizations do. And one of them I know is harm reduction, which is huge. This is something that I feel like a lot of people are scared to talk about, a scared to do. And, you know, you guys are doing it beautifully. So I think maybe we could start there, maybe tell a little bit about that. 

Aaron Wright 1:56
Okay. Thank you for having us, Wendy and Rich. And to your point, Wendy. Yes. 

Our organization, especially when we saved the word recovery community organization, and they hear harm reduction, they're like, what? Because usually the status quo is, you know, you got your harm reduction programs out there very effective. And then you have your recovery community. The two don't kind of bleed together. So when you ask the question, kind of like, how did we get started? Kind of what is. So our vision is that everyone affected by substance use finds hope, healing and a supportive community can't put in any better than one sentence because we know addiction just doesn't affect the person. It's everybody. So when we kind of were going through developing what Voices of Hope is and kind of wrapping our heads around and getting grants, the executive director, Jennifer Turk and myself, we actually had the honor of being with Dr. DiClemente. Dr. DiClemente I forget his first name was Italian. I always mess it up, but. 

Wendy Beck 2:56
Who is he? 

Aaron Wright 2:57
So he is one of the inventors of the trans theoretical model of stages of change. Him and coach. 

Wendy Beck 3:02
And I know this because I did the CFR training and they have the stages of change, so. Yes. Okay, cool. 

Aaron Wright 3:09
So with that being said, we're like, Oh, okay, well, this is great. You know what I mean? Stages of change. How does this pertain to substance use? So we've kind of identified that if you were to think that even though I'm going on ten years in recovery myself, I am literally this close to I'm just out stretching my arm to about maybe 40, 40 inches. I am that close away from being person in active use. Again. Right? So let's just face facts. So when we were kind of thinking, well, how can we help? Because we are a lot of us are 12 step members of 12 steps, Anonymous and I could literally hang a streetlight across 40 that says free treatment navigation services here with fireworks and ice cream cones. And I'll throw in an oil change. And guess how many people are coming. 

Wendy Beck 3:52
To. 

Aaron Wright 3:52
Right? Not many. Right. So what we realized was then we have to kind of focus on the first stage of change, which is pre contemplation, not thinking about it. That's what we consider active use. How do we engage active users? So to your point, harm reduction, a lot of people are like, okay, syringes, you know, hey, we heard it cuts down on hep C hepatitis that's can I carries on here. Yeah absolutely. It's bullshit right now. It does it it does help to. 

Chris Rives 4:18
The residency. 

Aaron Wright 4:19
Program. Hey, this is not right. This is not going to be an acronym so that it is a benefit. Wendy and Rich. But what we found out is that I get a person who is actively using possible chaotic use, possible overdose risk, possible just lost their kids, possibly homeless in front of a certified peer recovery specialist for 2 minutes that I give them that sterile equipment. And in those 2 minutes I say, hey, did you hear about. I was in hey, did you hear about, hey, do you know how to inject safely? Hey, did you know hey, did you also know that we do treatment navigation? Hey, did you also know we have recovery? Hey, did you know? Hey, did you know? So we get to plant those seeds in that first engagement, right? Because it's a process. Change is a process. It's not. Hey, I'm going to help you here, but. Oh, I don't do that service. You know what I mean? You got to go over here. Now. We want to be in the continuum because we know that building those relationships, because any one of us that are maintaining recovery can be an active user of tomorrow. And anybody that's actively using today can be maintaining recovery tomorrow. Mm hmm. So that's how we kind of engage those individuals with our wound care program, and that's how we identify what's in pre contemplation. And I'm just telling you right now, as soon as we start talking about psilocybin, as soon as we mention the word, Hey, did you know we do treatment? Hey, did you know that if you don't have your ID or you don't have insurance or you don't have transportation, don't worry about it. We can help you with all of that, right? 

Wendy Beck 5:41
All the doors are open. 

Aaron Wright 5:42
All the doors are open. No barrier to access. So what now we just did was we took somebody from saying, I don't want help. I just want to continue because I've been there just wanting to die. Right? Yeah. It starts, I'm thinking, and if I can get a person to just think about staying with change, which is contemplation now contemplation. 

Wendy Beck 6:02
Pre contemplation is before you talk to that active you. Right. Okay. Right. Yeah. And then contemplation is the seed. 

Aaron Wright 6:08
Right. Right. Okay. And that's the start of the change process. So change really is a measure until you change your behavior, right? That's when they measure that change was made. Meaning if they went to treatment or not. But that start the change process, they have to think about change. It's just like us, right? Hey, you know what I mean? I would love to have a six pack, Right? But until I actually think about, Oh, maybe I need a gym membership and stop eating chip, which is in the middle of the night in my bed. Right? That's that. That's the start of the process. What doesn't count is when I stop being Chip, which is a gas. 

Chris Rives 6:36
You know what I mean? 

Rich Bennett 6:37
I want to. I want a chip which Now. 

Wendy Beck 6:40
What does that chip which is. 

Rich Bennett 6:42
A jelly sandwich with potato chips on now is when that's actually going to. 

Aaron Wright 6:48
Chocolate chip cookies with 

chocolate chips. 

Wendy Beck 6:52
And I didn't. 

Chris Rives 6:54
Know. I didn't. 

Aaron Wright 6:54
Know that. 

Wendy Beck 6:55
And the chip which contemplation. 

Chris Rives 6:58
See so county chip which is you see some candy. 

Wendy Beck 7:00
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 7:01
What. Oh they got here. Oh they got. 

Wendy Beck 7:03
The raw I think the. 

Rich Bennett 7:04
Klondike. Oh that. 

Wendy Beck 7:06
One. I think that there's a, a difference between the recovery based organization and, and the harm reduction. So like, you know, rage against Addiction, we're, we're a recovery based organization, even though I would say that we have kind of like touched on harm reduction with having the maintenance houses like cause a lot of people don't realize that that's part of recovery. And I know that and you can correct me if I'm wrong, there's the all paths now, which is kind of tell me about that. 

Aaron Wright 7:39
So once we have people kind of thinking about the status of change, we have 24 seven treatment navigation services. So we have a wealth of resources where we partner with our local health department, but we also do it here in Harford County, which, you know, we're building those relationships currently as we connect in the treatment. Right then in there where you're 90, 97% successful of having them on their way to their treatment facility within 2 hours, if not 15 minutes. Wow. While they're there, we stay in touch with them, Right. Because we want to be part of that discharge process. 

Chris Rives 8:10
This is like a like a supportive program. 

Aaron Wright 8:13
Yeah. So it's a support. I'm kind of leading. 

Wendy Beck 8:15
Okay. Yeah, maybe I jumped ahead. Sorry. Okay, So. 

Aaron Wright 8:18
So and half accounting lesson. You guys are totally blessed. And thank you for ACR and Rage and everything that you guys do because there is a lot of what we call recovery monetary here, right? Recovery capital here. So, well. 

Wendy Beck 8:32
Recovery theoretically, I'm going somewhere tonight to have a little opioid restitution fund, town hall. 

Aaron Wright 8:40
That's what I it is. So we'll. 

Wendy Beck 8:41
See. 

Aaron Wright 8:42
Okay. Yes, Yes. So what we kind of do there is touch base because they we want to get them to a recovery supportive environment, meaning, hey, was your family supportive of your recovery process? Was it kind of toxic? Do you want a recovery house? So once we kind of get them stabilized, that's when we kind of hit him with Will. Hey, did you know about all the recovery support networks out there? And a lot of people are like, yeah, I heard of any. Well, okay, that is one of them, right? Did you hear about Smart Recovery? Did you hear about Dhamma, which is a Buddhist path to recovery? Did you hear about all paths, which is a non abstinence based support group? Did you hear about that? And people were like, What? No. What do you mean? It's like, if we support my recovery process, I'm just going to be honest. I pick up a drug or a drink, I break out in handcuffs and jail sentences point blank period so many times is how it is. Other people's recovery process they might be able to drink on the weekends. I've seen it, but worse, right? Medical cannabis, whatever the case may be. So so if we're if we're meeting people exactly where they are in a true harm reduction, compassionate love, I'm going to love you exactly where you're at. But we just want you to be, well, whatever wellness looks like for you, then we have to start thinking to maintain that process. We need supports in everything. So we need the abstinence based support we need. Hey, I'm on methadone, I'm on Suboxone, which, you know, all past medical cannabis. I want to learn how to drink on the weekends. Okay. Hey, faith based or that refuge recovery, too. It's like a Christian based support group. Hey, we need that. We need oh, it's all hands on deck and if we don't start focusing on helping make people maintain, then we're just going to have the recidivism rates as high as we have in the jails and institutions. 

Wendy Beck 10:22
Okay. And you know, and having said that, like, you know, I think that harm reduction is scary for people because, you know, I'm I'm not in recovery. You know, I had experience I had a ten year run with my with my daughter. My ex-husband is a recovering alcoholic. So, like, I got it. Like, I know what it's like to swim in the pool. I mean, I might not be you know, I'm there. Been there, too. So when even on the methadone level, like when my daughter when I was kind of like, all right, what are you going to do here? Like, there's got to be a point where you come up with some kind of solution. And her first thing I remember, she was like, I want to get on methadone. And I was just like, I mean, this is a lot. This is quite some time ago I was like, devastated because I didn't know, you know, at that point that wasn't harm reduction. That was people saying that you're replacing one thing with another and how is that intended to die? And here I am not knowing anything. So like that was even equally devastating to me. But now working with these women in these houses and you see that they can actually have quality of life through these types of, you know, opportunities, We we cannot fit everyone into the same treatment plan. 

Aaron Wright 11:38
Yeah. And it's really, I think systemically to your point, Wendy, we've tried to fit people in boxes in order to provide services. I think now we're kind of catching on. We start we have to start building a circle around the person. Right? Okay. Now, with that being said, I was on methadone. I did three different programs, but I did two tours at two of them. I was also on Suboxone. And to be honest with you, methadone saved my life. There was a point in my in my life where I was using it as a harm reduction tool because I did not want to get sick, because when I got sick, I would rob someone. When I rob someone, I got locked up or I got beat up or whatever the case may be. My, my, my choices. When I was sick, when I don't can't find money, became very judicially involved. 

Wendy Beck 12:29
That's right. Gotcha. 

Aaron Wright 12:31
With that being said, I did not know once I got on these programs, right, that hey, there was other people just like me. So it was kind of like, Hey, or here's my supportive community. And that kind of helped me also see a very wide variety of people that were kind of using it like me. And then some of those individuals, Wendy and Rich, were trying to do the right thing. Right now, I'm not going to say that every methadone program is not a moneymaker, right? Because we just know that it makes money. I was going to say that. Right? Right. But I am going to say that the individuals are accessing those services. You're not. And here's what the catch is. You're not going to see the person in a suit get out of that car, go in there and get dosed and go back. You know what I mean? In your car, Go to work and take care of the kids. You're not going to see the mom, right? That's supporting two kids by going there. And I'm working at Dunkin Donuts. You're not going to see those individuals. What you're going to hear about is the individual selling Xanax in the parking lot or, you know, and I mean, the person that's hiding your doses are stole doses are selling it on the street. Right. It's the same thing with Bill Clinton. The one thing the one thing you hear with Bill Clinton, I mean, what's what's first thing comes to mind? Bill Clinton, Monica Lewinsky. Okay. So that's why, you know, if I ask you guys what bills that he. 

Wendy Beck 13:42
Has and that's why when they do open or they have in the past open like methadone clinics or these types of facilities in neighborhoods, people are they're all up in arms. This is the worst thing that could ever happen. You're bringing drugs into my neighborhood. And that's honestly, that's not the case. And here's the other question I wanted to ask about harm reduction, because you and I know that it works and it's continuing to work. But one of the biggest stumbling blocks is the community and is the support of the community. So I think that we need to really touch on that and what it really looks like. Like, tell me how, you know, the community reacts to these harm reduction things that Voices of Hope has put into place. Maybe that maybe they're more, you know, I don't know, genuine about it than I would anticipate. But I know that some counties are more, you know, apt to keep it away and others have welcomed it in. 

Aaron Wright 14:39
Well, I'm going I'm going to kick it. 

Rich Bennett 14:40
Before you do that, though, if you can, because those listening may not know what harm reduction is, explaining what harm reduction is. 

Aaron Wright 14:48
So harm reduction is a set of principles to try to reduce harm. Whatever a case is. So birth. 

Wendy Beck 14:53
Control. 

Aaron Wright 14:53
So seatbelts. So it's just when we when we when we talk in the recovery community, setting harm reduction is usually like safer use equipment, so sterile syringes, proper use to how to inject your vein health naloxone distribution, anything to stop the promotion that can do harm or the community harm by infectious diseases or whatever the case may be. Condoms. Prime example of harm reduction, right when you go to schools is gone. So to your question, I'm going to let someone who actually, when we mention the word syringes, was like, what answer to that question? 

Chris Rives 15:33
When I when I started with voices of how my second day on the job, I was blown away, I did a harm reduction walk, they call it we call it a backpack program in Cecil County. And it was literally my second day on the job. And I went into a very depressed neighborhood and Cecil County and was just doing a walk and they exchange they were walking around with long syringes and short syringes and and wound care supplies. And I was like, what? And they literally were exchanging syringes with people. And at first, to me, it was it was scary. I was like, what the heck is this? And and it was that. That was the most eye opening day in my life, probably about with what I've learned, too, with this organization, with voice of Hope. But we walk through the neighborhood and and they literally hand out clean syringes to keep people from getting diseases, from using dirty equipment because they're going to use it. And it's just like an alcoholic. If you you know, if they're going to drink, they're going to find a way to drink one way or the other, no matter what. Right? Yeah. You know, so they're going to use a dirty needle, so why not help them be healthier and use clean equipment in order to better their chances of of of survival and not catching all these other diseases. But anyway, on that day, this is one of the neatest things. Literally that day we walked up to a young couple and they were sick of being sick, tired of being tired. They wanted to get into treatment. They had some barriers. They had animals that we had to find homes for their animals. And this is my second day of work. The third day, which was the following day, I was in the Seizure County Recovery Center and the same couple, young couple, probably mid-twenties, was in our organization going through the treatment navigation process and went off to a detox facility. So, wow, it's I mean, it's amazing. And the whole the whole process. I'm not in recovery either. Wendy, I don't know if you knew that or not. I lost my daughter to an overdose 12 years ago, and that's why I'm with Voices of Hope and 

voices, the whole peer 

excuse me, certified peer recovery specialist program, having a person that's in recovery talk to somebody that wants to get in recovery, wants. It's just it's an it's a connection. You can't understand. 

Wendy Beck 18:09
You can't. 

Chris Rives 18:09
You can't I don't understand it. And I see it all the time. I, I don't I don't understand it. But I, I went ahead and got my certified recovery specialists certificate and then I've also gotten my family certification certificate, which is just one other step above that where so right now I deal with family members. So okay, if if if there's a 

participant that wants to get into recovery and he's in our center and he might express that his mother or father, you know, they need somebody to talk to or his brothers or sisters need somebody to talk to because it messes up the whole family. It's not just the person that's that's trying to get into recovery. It messes with the whole dynamic. Believe me, I have been there. And so that's where I step in. But it is amazing that the syringes, to me, it scared the crap out of me. I was like, What the heck is this? But then when I learned about, Wow, you know how this whole process works, it was amazing. I met Jen Turk at a coffee and connections. Wendy and that's how they hired me. They came. I met him in. 

Wendy Beck 19:20
January. 

Chris Rives 19:20
2023, and then I. We put on a fundraiser and she said, if you make that fundraiser successful in three months, then I'm hiring you. And I'm like, Whatever. 

Wendy Beck 19:30
And I was there. 

Chris Rives 19:32
Yeah. And then sure enough, they, after our first annual rock and roll for Recovery event, they offered me the position and it's been the most rewarding job I've ever had in my entire life. 

Wendy Beck 19:41
And I do believe that to just being someone that has been affected by addiction, but not someone who's in recovery, like it's almost like you have to kind of get in the trenches and tread water and swim to kind of just get your strength and get your understanding of the whole process. And that's that's the same thing with me. So you've been through very similar situations. Yeah. 

Aaron Wright 20:02
And I think to to your point, right, so like elected officials, law enforcement, right. We can't ask them to come on walks. Right. That would be probably the worst thing to try to build trust is having, you know, officers of the law kind of walk around and say, you know, I tell people this when when I want to present to county councils in the towns and to law enforcement, I don't like I really don't I don't like giving out syringes. I was an I.V. drug user for 23 years. Wow. 23 years. I don't like it. I also don't like having to walk through these devastated neighborhoods and training nine year olds and ten year olds. 

Chris Rives 20:42
Using naloxone. 

Aaron Wright 20:43
How to use naloxone because they tug on my shirt and say, Mister, can teach me how to use this because it's hard to wake up mom and dad, right? Yeah. I don't like hearing because in this past three months, 14 year olds, 15 year olds and a ten year old just passed away in Cecil County due to opioids. And I really don't like the fucking fact that I get a fucking email almost every day from our heroin coordinator, right? Saying these are the people that overdosed, here's who's fatal, here's who lived right. And when I open it, pray to God that I don't know them. And then I pray to God more that I don't know. They're fucking kids. 

Wendy Beck 21:22
Right? Yeah. 

Aaron Wright 21:23
So when he asked me, what I tell them is that's exactly what I tell them. And I say if it's if they still don't get the point, can you show me systematically then that your things that you have in place now is working? Because if not, let me do what the fuck it is I got to do and help my community, right? 

Wendy Beck 21:40
Wow. I mean, and that's again, not my kid. Not my not my my problem. Not my problem, not the issue. And that was, you know, in 2000, 14, 13, 12, whenever it started for me, you know, I knew that there was a problem with my daughter and I had no idea like what it was with you. I was kind of like, are these growing pains? Everybody drinks, everybody smokes. Like what's what's happening? But it had escalated so fast that when I finally kind of, like, figured out what was going on, I mean, it took me a minute. I was reaching out to family members of her friends, and they were all putting up the big, you know, X, we not don't talk about this around us. I don't know what's going on with you, but we don't. I don't. And I'm like my kids with your kid. Do you understand that? And yeah, some of them has passed away since and some of them have, you know, met recovery. And but that's one of the things where you can't really educate someone who has no point of reference. And that's where we have to continue to tell our stories. As painful as it is. And as much as it sucks because I never wanted my daughter to be the poster, the poster child for for overdose awareness, I mean, like, literally, she would have been like, mom, really? She would not have wanted that for herself, you know what I mean? But I feel like in the things that we've done with like putting our our pain and creating a purpose, we're going to continue to do that. And with the people in recovery, which, you know, like I wrote a post today because of the run coming up and everything about how we vehemently support recovery. And the only reason that we do was because we were on the other side. We know the devastations. So you kind of have to have that that, you know, pull, push and pull that tug of war within the community to be like, yeah, I might not be in recovery, but I know what it feels like. So yeah, so I think I just went off on a little tangent right there. I have no idea. But anyway. 

Rich Bennett 23:52
That's okay. Wendy It's allow. 

Wendy Beck 23:57
Well, no, but that's why I think these conversations are so important. And, and for the for the people who don't understand harm reduction and, you know, needle exchanges and and methadone and all of these things, it's an important conversation to keep having. 

Aaron Wright 24:12
It is. And you know, one of my many hats as well is data collection. And what I can say that 80% of our treatment navigations come directly from our syringe service program. 

Wendy Beck 24:29
Okay. 

Aaron Wright 24:30
So I can sit here and throw numbers at you and prove it to you. And we're working with a couple, you know, places to to say that this is the actual continuum of care from active use to quote unquote, productive member of society, if you will, that if it wasn't for our sharing service program, we would do just like you said, if I hung a street, you know, a light across 40, it would be too. So right now we do anywhere from 45 to about 65 if I combine see so in Harford County together treatment navigations per month. 

Wendy Beck 25:02
Okay. 

Aaron Wright 25:03
We also have 600 to 800 individuals attend our support meetings per month. Wow. So, so seeing that if you see the continuum of care in action, it's like you would it would blow your mind just seeing it, right? You're like, Wait, I can come here for syringes. I can come here and get my lawn mowed. 

I could 

I can come here for wound care. I can come here for syringes, wound care. I can come here for treatment navigation. I can bring my mom here because she's getting on my nerves. Right. Right. And someone can support her. And then I can also see someone and I can come here to get into a recovery house and you'll drive me. I can come here to get close. I can come here to a support meeting. I can come here to be a certified peer recovery specialist because I've found meaning in to in giving back. You know what I mean? Which. Which I wanted to take my life at one point. So giving back actually fulfills me right? There's nobody in this and just hear me out. There's nobody in the behavioral health field for the fucking money. I can tell you that right now. Yeah, right. We're all in it because our hearts in it, because these are our people, right? So when people if you can give a person even in chaotic use, a drop of meaning and purpose that they could one day help another person and that person will help and that and that and it keeps going. That's price. That is priceless. And that's that's where it's at. That exactly where it's at that. 

Wendy Beck 26:36
Okay. So, you know, looking at the big picture, I mean, I know voices of hopes that has recovery houses. I know that we do harm reduction. I know that you're advocates, you know, in a lot of different, you know, things around the state. And I'm kind of probably should know better, but I'm. 

Aaron Wright 26:56
Doing great. You're doing great. 

Wendy Beck 26:59
I'm just winging it as usual. That's my that's my. 

Rich Bennett 27:02
That's my it's a conversation. You that's why we don't you address it. Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 27:08
But just how how can you expand what you guys are doing beyond Cecil County in Harford County and that kind of thing because. And is there a model like this anywhere else in the country or not even in the country, but in the world. 

Chris Rives 27:25
Is I don't know that there's another organization like this in Maryland. I don't I'm sure there isn't. And we have been asked and I'm not going to name specific counties, but I know that our executive director has been approached to go to other counties. And at the end of the day, we don't have the bandwidth right now. And it all comes down to the almighty dollar. Yeah, yeah. You know, that that that particular county or area region, whatever you want to call it, would have data up and then it would just it's, it would I mean it is a scalable model though. It's absolutely, positively a scalable model. And you can look at it like a regular business, you know, and it. 

Wendy Beck 28:03
Is can I say this, Nonprofits are regular businesses, okay? People the people who work there need to get paid. The people who work there need to feed their families. I am so over the nonprofits. We don't pay the people that work there. That's bullshit. 

Chris Rives 28:22
People don't even they hear nonprofit and they think you can't make any money. I know a woman that makes hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars running one of the biggest nonprofits. 

Wendy Beck 28:32
Yeah, I mean, and I think I mean, it's. 

Rich Bennett 28:35
A huge difference. 

Wendy Beck 28:36
Right? United Way. 

Chris Rives 28:37
YMCA, Special. 

Wendy Beck 28:39
Olympics, all of it. So, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 28:41
Here's my take on that, too. When it comes to nonprofits, number one, if you don't pay the staff, guess what? 

Wendy Beck 28:50
You have. 

Rich Bennett 28:50
No longer have no, you don't have. 

Wendy Beck 28:52
Your volunteer. You just run dry. 

Rich Bennett 28:54
And if you don't have a nonprofit, there's nobody out there helping the people that need help. 

Wendy Beck 29:00
Well, the reason that the nonprofit was created, it theoretically was because there was a need in the community that the government was not providing. So you had these people who had a purpose, had a mission, and they came together. There were laws that were set into place, you know, to prevent certain types of taxation and stuff like that. But essentially it is a business, right? So like I'm just you know, I'm saying the model can and should be placed throughout. I totally agree with that. 

Aaron Wright 29:30
So the model can be replicated. 

Wendy Beck 29:32
Yes, we. 

Chris Rives 29:33
Can do it. It is very difficult, right? 

Wendy Beck 29:36
Yeah. Gotcha. 

Aaron Wright 29:37
And I think, too, one of the things that kind of makes us not makes us, but makes the model successful, especially in Hartford and out in our county, was the fact that we have relationships. I can't tell you how many times relationships are so important and you would think, you know what I mean. I never thought, like I said last time, me public speaking what you know what I mean. Did you know I did seven years in federal prison like you sure you want me up there? So it's that sort of thing where we found value in relationships, value in stories, value in community, and we kind of brought that to the team. So even though. Yes. Was it a struggle in the beginning with the syringe service program, we did have partnerships early on. You know what I mean, that were like, Hey, man, us too. We'll sit there with you. So it only takes that first one to kind of jump out there and the next one to do that. So could it be picked up, replicated and dropped in every county? Absolutely. But I think those relationships because high level the relationships in Hartford and C, so if you look at these other counties, you're like, what do you mean you don't even have a heroin coordinator? 

Wendy Beck 30:44
Right. Well, and also like from 2014 when I started read to now, which has been, you know, the span of ten years, so much has changed. And it's changed because I'm going to say because of ACR, because of our county executive at the time, because of these nonprofits, because of these grief groups. So you have all of these people who are coming together because they need these services. And that takes time. Yeah. 

Aaron Wright 31:13
And think about it. If I asked you ten years ago, Wendy Wright, was there a, you know, a women's recovery house that would allow Suboxone or methadone? Probably not in the state. 

Wendy Beck 31:25
Yeah, it was. 

Aaron Wright 31:26
In the entire state. Yeah. Now I'd be willing to bet there are probably counties out there that even if you said do you have a women's recovery house would say what. 

Wendy Beck 31:33
Yeah. No and they don't and so. 

Aaron Wright 31:36
And in that aspect. Right so the women's recovery house now is a okay it's a kind of acceptable but if you throw a women's recovery house for methadone they kind of look at you twisted still. Right. So the fact that some of these counties do still don't have women's recovery houses, it's like, man, now, yes. To your point, we're all about if you want to pick up, replicate and drop, yes, we can absolutely help you, you know, the bandwidth for us to pack up and go. There was probably not an option. Well, I'm just help out rolling. 

Wendy Beck 32:04
It out into the universe because, you know, that's a seed as well, because I know we have a really large audience and people are probably thinking that's something that would be very beneficial in my own community. So, you know what? What can voices of hope, you know, how could someone get in touch with voices of hope if they needed to. 

Aaron Wright 32:26
So they can call voices a hope? Our number is 

4439937055. Just press one for C. So I think. 

Chris Rives 32:36
It's three for. 

Aaron Wright 32:37
Three for Hartford and I think it's like five if you want to go for admin assistant, but you could ask anybody on to get a hold of us. You can also visit us on the website is which I hope Maryland dot org. 

Rich Bennett 32:47
Maryland spelt out. 

Aaron Wright 32:48
Maryland spit out. Yes thank you. And see as you see the staff our board of directors and a little bit about us and our stories and yeah so 

please contact us you. 

Wendy Beck 33:00
Know I. 

Rich Bennett 33:01
Want to I want to talk about pregnant pronouns. It was explained. Everybody would know how that is. We mentioned it on the other podcast, but when you were talking about it, it scared the shit out of me. 

Chris Rives 33:15
Silencing is a horse tranquilizer and I'm I'm. I'm a newbie, right? So I don't know a lot about it. And it it's literally not intended for human use at all whatsoever. And they added it's been added to fentanyl with through our RAD program. 

Wendy Beck 33:32
We literally what's rad what's rad program. 

Aaron Wright 33:37
So RAD stands for Rapid Analysis of Drugs. We send samples of whatever the drugs were contained in and not the drugs themselves were contained in. We sent to the sheriff's office. 

Wendy Beck 33:48
Sometimes far, yeah. 

Aaron Wright 33:49
Sent to the sheriff's office. And we usually get a bounce back with what's what's in a couple of weeks. Had about two weeks yet. 

Chris Rives 33:55
But anyway they zap that there's no heroin in the drugs anymore that we test zero goose egg none that. 

Rich Bennett 34:03
They all. 

Chris Rives 34:04
Either pure fat. No. Or fennel. And so I was in and I didn't even know until today that that we're getting tests back that appears I was still today and it it it it caused my brother that my step brother lived in Philly literally overdosed about six months ago. Six or seven months ago. He he was a UPS driver and threw his back out and got addicted to opiates. And he wouldn't let me come visit him for months and months and months before I even worked for Voice of Hope. He sent me pictures of these 

ridiculous looking open wounds on his arms, and he was telling me he had Mersa and he had differently. Yeah, I might be contagious. You come visit me. I had no idea. This is before I work. So. And it's diagnosing wounds. 

Rich Bennett 34:54
It's not a prescription that you get, is it? 

Chris Rives 34:56
No, no, it's. 

Aaron Wright 34:58
Not a controlled substance. And that's what the issue. 

Chris Rives 35:00
Is right now. 

Aaron Wright 35:01
Right? It's not a controlled substance. I don't know anybody for horses. Anybody can get it on the block. 

Chris Rives 35:06
Anybody can get a hold of it on the black market. Right. It's not it's not a controlled substance. Yeah, exactly. So that's what silencing is. It's on it's and. 

Aaron Wright 35:14
It what we're finding is it starts out it looks like a womb, like a little purple dot on your skin. And it's not necessarily at the injection site. If you're IV drug use, it gets inhaled. Yeah, it can it can be rapidly popping out. Okay. Anyway, and then it starts necrotizing flesh and it just keeps eating flesh until just bone and ligament. And in our left. And we've had, I think since we started a wound care program, about 40 to 42 ish individuals that needed amputations. One was a triple amputee, first triple amputee in the state of Maryland. He was about triple amputee about three months ago. And on his one good appendage, which is, I think, his right arm or left arm, one of them which only has three fingers on. She now has a wound that may be reaching in from his shoulder area into his torso. 

Rich Bennett 36:06
So it gets into your bloodstream and seizes. 

Aaron Wright 36:08
So I'm not sure how it spreads, but I just know that it is from alginate. I think when they started doing human tests, when they in the 1940s from this drug, it was children's ears and nose were falling off. That's why they stop human consumption of it. But it's great on horses. It'll knock down a horse, it'll knock down an elephant. And I think the drug market now is adding it to fentanyl because fentanyl is such a high spike in endorphins. Right. And also it has a hard crash as well. So it's everything to a high low. And then when they mix the fentanyl, it's kind of like a high spike and then it has legs. Now it's just you just gave it legs and it's cheap. It's not scheduled. She can be arrested for it. I mean. 

Wendy Beck 36:48
Why? Oh, well, okay. 

Aaron Wright 36:50
Yeah, yeah. 

Chris Rives 36:51
It's, it's not. 

Wendy Beck 36:53
Yeah. 

Aaron Wright 36:53
Well, Dave. 

Chris Rives 36:54
Your substitute substance, it's. 

Aaron Wright 36:55
It's like Tylenol, I guess. Bagatelle. It is. 

Chris Rives 36:58
Well, better. Veterinary veteran veterinarians use it and they can get it on the black market. Who knows how they get it, you know? 

Rich Bennett 37:05
Yeah. So how long has this been? So how long of people do we know how long they've been using it? 

Aaron Wright 37:12
So I think don't quote me, but I believe in Puerto Rico. It was started they were starting the drug market was starting to infiltrate their Philadelphia, I think, started in about 2000 and possibly 15, where they were seeing at least signs of wounds. Right. A lot of the dead trains, when you go to a hospital or treatment center, they only test for it. You know, the major is opiates, benzos, that sort of thing. So nobody was even testing closing. But after they started seeing these wounds around 2015, 2016, 2017, then they're like, okay, let's we kind of have to dig into this more. Now. They're just trying to play catch up, right? So now you just try to be reactive instead of proactive, like, hey, how how do we get it? What is it? What does it do? Is it causing this? Because there was a lot of controversy between medical providers like, well, just long term fentanyl use that's actually doing it right. Stop it. That was the case. You know what I mean? 

Wendy Beck 38:04
Right. 

Aaron Wright 38:05
Anyway, so now it's kind of creeping into Cecil County 

because all are well, not creeping it's indices. Over 90% of samples in Cecil County. If it's even if it's not even opiates, if it's meth, meth, cocaine, cane, whatever the case is we're seeing. And we just now, I think we're we're up to about five maybe samples that we tested in Harford County that it's here And now. What I'm hearing is it's also in Baltimore. 

Chris Rives 38:32
It is in Baltimore. Say no to not to the same level at even close as it is in Philly or Cecil, but it is in Baltimore. 

Rich Bennett 38:40
Which means no time. It will be. 

Chris Rives 38:43
Something about that Susquehanna River Bridge. You don't really and it stops. 

Aaron Wright 38:49
And treatment centers from. 

Chris Rives 38:50
So the people from Cecil County get it from Philly and people in Hartford kind of get the drugs from Baltimore. It's not it's not as rampant in Baltimore as it is. And yeah, in. 

Aaron Wright 39:00
Philly and now treatment centers. So we're sending individuals to treatment now and they're treating the opiate withdrawal. But they're not treating this as in withdrawal. So individuals are a-main because it's not even. 

Wendy Beck 39:10
Touching what's aiming. 

Aaron Wright 39:11
So against medical advice. So an individual going into treatment, you know, staying there be like, okay, I'm sick or I'm really sick. And they're like, Oh, here's your medicine. You should feel better in about 15 minutes. I'm still sick. You don't understand. And, you know, go after yourself. 

Wendy Beck 39:24
I'm walking out, right? 

Aaron Wright 39:26
So they're leaving against medical advice. 

Wendy Beck 39:28
Well, I mean, I feel like we could continue to have these conversations, you know, every day, because it's just it's changing. It's forever changing in terms of like, you know, ten years ago, I never heard I never heard of xylene until probably like six months ago when I heard about it for the first time. 

Rich Bennett 39:47
But when you think about I mean, it's you know, people always hear about you're always hearing about heroin. You were hearing and then fentanyl was. But a lot people are still talking about fentanyl. But now listening to Xylem, xylene is all right, which scares me because if you have a you're losing your skin, you're losing your limbs. Imagine somebody with diabetes taking this. 

Chris Rives 40:15
My step brother had diabetes. 

Rich Bennett 40:16
I mean, that just makes it even worse. It's like the weak the fuck up. I mean, God, I mean it would. You said earlier about and it's true, but, you know, like if you know somebody choose and some people say, well, that's not my problem. Guess what? If it's in your area, it's your problem. That's part of the community. Just because that person's using don't think that your son, your daughter, your spouse, your loved one isn't use it. They could be. You may not know, right? We need it. 

Wendy Beck 40:53
We need it. Well, that's why we're having this conversation. And, you know. 

Chris Rives 41:00
I think we all had stuff. 

Wendy Beck 41:01
We're going to see when we were kids. Oh, yeah. But I mean, like. 

Chris Rives 41:04
I know I did. 

Wendy Beck 41:05
The thing that not only to having the conversations is this We have to get the people who make the decisions help. And that's where we have that. You know that I don't know that wall where we can't get past it because then once, you know, the administration changes and you have the support, then you no longer have the support. You're starting from scratch and people are dying. 

Aaron Wright 41:28
Yeah, And I think, too, I think society systemically, our societies, I mean, you look on any TV and every commercial, right, is either going to be, you know, what I mean? BEHAR Whatever the case, it's kind of a party atmosphere, right? We've kind of normalized and nothing wrong with people who can drink, right? Smoking, Right, Right. More power to you. I wish I could, but systemically, we've kind of put it out there and it's always talked about, so why can we not start normalizing talking about addiction and where to get help and how can I talk? I'm in high school and how I can talk to my friend that, hey, my mom, I think my mom needs help without telling a counselor, without getting CPS called and like all this shit, right? How can we come in? It's a real harm reduction approach and just start normalize. Talking about substance use disorder, recovery, and mental health. 

Rich Bennett 42:19
All right. With you. I'm sorry. This is. Listen, this is burning me up. Do you know of anybody that has lost limbs from this that's in recovery? 

Aaron Wright 42:33
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 42:34
Do you think they would go out to the schools and talk to people? Because I think would people see see them as you know, yeah, I lost my arm because of this drug. And what's not, you know, of this substance, whatever the hell it is, What the hell it is? It's a drug. Yeah, I think that's going to open people's eyes. They they need to get out in front of the people. 

It's going to be talked about. 

Chris Rives 43:01
There's a commercial on. I'm an avid WB and news watcher. Mm hmm. There's a commercial that talks about as I was saying now on regular TV. 

Rich Bennett 43:10
About how dangerous it. 

Chris Rives 43:11
Is about absolutely. Okay. 

Aaron Wright 43:13
There's no visuals, it just tells stories about women. 

Chris Rives 43:15
And so it's any that comes it's coming. Yeah, but we're nowhere near where we need to be. 

Wendy Beck 43:22
Yeah. So, you know, this is. 

Chris Rives 43:24
Excuse. 

Wendy Beck 43:25
Me, you know something that if you don't know about it, you don't know about it. So when people don't have exposure to addiction or loved ones that have, you know, been affected, they just they don't know how to to digest it. They don't know how Like, it's it is still taboo. It's still something that, you know, I feel like for me and I don't know how you feel, Chris, like having a child years was very lonely because you were nobody wanted to be around you because they knew that your life was a fucking mess and you know why even say how or I mean, if someone came up to me and said, How are you doing? I probably would have just cried. And so instead we don't have the support that we need. And so, you know, no. Wants to talk about it. 

Chris Rives 44:21
Yeah, I had no idea what was going on. One of my daughter was using this was, you know, 2012. That's when she passed it. She started using it in 2010 and only took two years. 

Wendy Beck 44:29
Okay. 

Chris Rives 44:30
But, but yeah, I mean it we didn't have any support. I had no clue what to do back then. Right. I would, I would buy her cars. I would help her get jobs. I would buy clothes, buy food. I just wouldn't give her any cash. 

Wendy Beck 44:46
You get very strategic. 

Chris Rives 44:47
Yeah. And. Right. She had a boyfriend, wannabe rock star with a habit, and she was in love with him and the drug. And it didn't take long. 

Wendy Beck 44:56
Right. 

Aaron Wright 44:58
Instead of your neighbor asking, say, Hey, you want to come over for a beer and say, Hey, how's your daughter doing in recovery? We start normalizing that speech and regular conversation. People aren't going to be so scared to reach out. 

Chris Rives 45:09
You know, I had a woman at National Night out a few months ago on my networking bridge making fun of me. 

Rich Bennett 45:16
But think if you had pictures to prove it. Yeah, I was there. 

Wendy Beck 45:22
I was. Damn it, I'm 39. 

Chris Rives 45:25
But 

a woman at National night out, I was we we give out naloxone at these events. And and she literally said to me, I'm not going to administer that to anybody that's enabled. 

Wendy Beck 45:38
That's right. Narcan. 

Chris Rives 45:40
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 45:40
So you're going to give somebody mouth to mouth. 

Chris Rives 45:42
I said. 

Rich Bennett 45:43
What? 

Wendy Beck 45:43
Or do the Heimlich shots? 

Chris Rives 45:45
I lost my mind. I, I went into crazy mode. I said, What? I said, you know, ma'am, if if naloxone would have been around in 2012, my daughter might still be on the planet. That shut her up and that and that shut her up. And then and I mean, she's like she they literally people don't know. They don't they don't know. Our exact argument. Excuse me. Aaron's wife, our CEO at Voices of Hope, saved two people's lives in McDonald's parking lot in Elkton not a month ago, a month ago with naloxone literally administered it to do people that were not out in the front of the truck in a parking lot two months ago. 

Aaron Wright 46:25
While in a drive thru. 

Rich Bennett 46:26
Yeah. 

Aaron Wright 46:27
In the drive thru lane. 

Rich Bennett 46:28
Yeah. 

Aaron Wright 46:29
People are honking and he's out on the hood. She's out dangling out of the truck and she goes up and was giving the naloxone while the car's running. So he had his foot on the brake. As soon as she gave it to him he kind of came to and he was like, Hey, you okay? He just hit the fucking gas. Almost ran her over just to choke off because he was scared, like he thought it was. 

Rich Bennett 46:50
Cops or. 

Aaron Wright 46:50
Whatever the case. 

Rich Bennett 46:51
Wow. 

Chris Rives 46:52
So, I mean, people just don't they just don't understand. 

Aaron Wright 46:55
It's but but again, it's education, right? 

Chris Rives 46:58
And people need to be educated. 

Aaron Wright 47:00
Education, open mindedness. And yeah, I think that, you know, having those stories of and listen credits to YouTube because 

I never when when I celebrated five years in recovery I was at my you know, a 12 step fellowship and an anniversary and you know everybody I shared my experience ranked the hope in and everybody else was kind of sharing my mom, she came on and she said, you know what? And she said, you know, when I was addicted for 23 years, you can imagine my mom. She said, Aaron, there were so many nights that I prayed that you would get this. And I'm so happy that you're here. 

Rich Bennett 47:33
Yeah. 

Aaron Wright 47:34
And then she said that there was just as many, and I said, I would pray you would die so I could get fucking sleep. 

Wendy Beck 47:38
Wow. So to make us all right. 

Aaron Wright 47:42
Well, it hit me because I had to look at it, so I just want to say, like, kudos to both of you because you're going to save the next parents that have somebody in their basement that's afraid to fucking come out and say, I need help. Come and ask for fucking help. 

Chris Rives 47:56
When I took this job, I said, If I can help save one person from the bullshit that I had that it's worth every fucking second. Mm. 

Wendy Beck 48:05
Yeah. And I think that, that honestly, that's the moral of our story is that, you know, it takes 

more than one person, it takes more than one community based organization. It takes, you know, people to continue to do their part, whether it's harm reduction or recovery housing or, you know, working as a peer there. All of these things combined are what is making the change in the past ten years. In my experience and what I've seen and I have met some of the most amazing people and I don't think I would have ever, ever met people that were this dedicated had I not been thrown into this arena. 

Chris Rives 48:49
You're right. You're absolutely. 

Wendy Beck 48:51
So we're all warriors. 

Aaron Wright 48:53
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 48:55
And we're no, we're crying. So we need to end this now. 

Aaron Wright 49:01
I think we would all love to work ourselves out of a job.